No... the Catholic Church does not put herself above God. To think so is just in your mind. However, for you to tell me that I hate God, 'IS' saying you know whats in my heart, and the last I've heard....only God knows that.For you doing so, you are putting yourself at the same level as God!
2 Timothy 3:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP] All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
All Scriptures are from God. Fordman are you saying the lies from the Catholic Church has more authority on the Truth than God Himself?
Ah yes kenallan,,,,,2Tim. 3:16-17. The most ubiquitous proof text for sola scriptura in the history of Protestantism! Hate to tell you this, but passage dosen't say anything about Scripture being sufficient as a sole rule of faith at all! And I will tell you why. First off, Ophelimos, the word here translated as “profitable”, means just that. Without being disdainful, it is a simple and obvious fact that “profitable” implies the good, even the necessary, but certainly not the sufficient. That is, this passage does not by a long shot imply that Scripture should be the sole rule of faith. If the Holy Spirit had intended that meaning, He could have inspired Paul to use a Greek adjective that does mean “sufficient”, such as arkeo, as is used in 2 Cor 12:9, for example. In fact, in every place that ophelimos is used – such as in relation to good deeds in Titus 3:8 – it means good & profitable, but certainly not sufficient. It is clear that there is absolutely no basis to argue sola scriptura from this passage.
That is on the face of it. Looking deeper, it is apparent there are further problems with the way Protestants prefer to interpret these verses.
In AD 66-67, when Paul was writing to his fellow bishop Timothy, no New Testament Scripture existed. (Gospels and some epistles had, of course, been written, but no decisions had been made by the Church regarding which were Scripture – inspired and inerrant – and which were not.) So, it is certain that Paul was referring solely to the Old Testament Scriptures in his letter to Timothy, since that was all that was extant at the time of the writing. Now, it is certainly reasonable to assert that the passage has a deeper meaning and does in fact refer to all Scripture – to the New Testament canon that would eventually exist as well as the Old. However, explicitly, this is not the case, and in any event, again, the passage tells us that all Scripture is profitable.
[Verse 15 speaks of Timothy knowing the Scriptures from his infancy, further supporting the notion that is it the Old Testament being discussed here.]
Next, we have the topic of the inspiration of Scripture: Paul tells us that Scripture is, indeed, “God-breathed” (theopneustos). Protestants sometimes assert from this that anything that is not Scripture is not divinely inspired: that is a blatant reading into the text, for it says nothing of the sort.
“Thoroughly equipped” - aritos – can also be translated as “perfect”, but verse simply doesn’t say it is Scripture alone that makes man perfect – this is yet another case of reading in to the text. James 1:4 tells us that it is patience that can make one “perfect” – would anyone dare profess sola patience?
To add to the list of issues ruling out the defining Protestant interpretation of this passage, pasa graphe, translated usually in English as “all Scripture”, actually means “every Scripture”. This can be easily verified by anyone fluent in Greek. And that means that the passage says literally that “every Scripture” is profitable – and if we are to take the defining Protestant interpretation, “every Scripture” – that is, any particular Scripture verse – is all that is necessary for the faith! Obviously that is preposterous but such a conclusion is necessary if we read “profitable” as “sufficient”. So sorry, try again, for this passage doesn't support your argument at all.
As for the rest of your anti-Catholic rant.... I will address them later, right now I'm off to Mass.
Pax Christi
"from henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ---- Luke 1:48.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP] All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
All Scriptures are from God. Fordman are you saying the lies from the Catholic Church has more authority on the Truth than God Himself?
Ah yes kenallan,,,,,2Tim. 3:16-17. The most ubiquitous proof text for sola scriptura in the history of Protestantism! Hate to tell you this, but passage dosen't say anything about Scripture being sufficient as a sole rule of faith at all! And I will tell you why. First off, Ophelimos, the word here translated as “profitable”, means just that. Without being disdainful, it is a simple and obvious fact that “profitable” implies the good, even the necessary, but certainly not the sufficient. That is, this passage does not by a long shot imply that Scripture should be the sole rule of faith. If the Holy Spirit had intended that meaning, He could have inspired Paul to use a Greek adjective that does mean “sufficient”, such as arkeo, as is used in 2 Cor 12:9, for example. In fact, in every place that ophelimos is used – such as in relation to good deeds in Titus 3:8 – it means good & profitable, but certainly not sufficient. It is clear that there is absolutely no basis to argue sola scriptura from this passage.
That is on the face of it. Looking deeper, it is apparent there are further problems with the way Protestants prefer to interpret these verses.
In AD 66-67, when Paul was writing to his fellow bishop Timothy, no New Testament Scripture existed. (Gospels and some epistles had, of course, been written, but no decisions had been made by the Church regarding which were Scripture – inspired and inerrant – and which were not.) So, it is certain that Paul was referring solely to the Old Testament Scriptures in his letter to Timothy, since that was all that was extant at the time of the writing. Now, it is certainly reasonable to assert that the passage has a deeper meaning and does in fact refer to all Scripture – to the New Testament canon that would eventually exist as well as the Old. However, explicitly, this is not the case, and in any event, again, the passage tells us that all Scripture is profitable.
[Verse 15 speaks of Timothy knowing the Scriptures from his infancy, further supporting the notion that is it the Old Testament being discussed here.]
Next, we have the topic of the inspiration of Scripture: Paul tells us that Scripture is, indeed, “God-breathed” (theopneustos). Protestants sometimes assert from this that anything that is not Scripture is not divinely inspired: that is a blatant reading into the text, for it says nothing of the sort.
“Thoroughly equipped” - aritos – can also be translated as “perfect”, but verse simply doesn’t say it is Scripture alone that makes man perfect – this is yet another case of reading in to the text. James 1:4 tells us that it is patience that can make one “perfect” – would anyone dare profess sola patience?
To add to the list of issues ruling out the defining Protestant interpretation of this passage, pasa graphe, translated usually in English as “all Scripture”, actually means “every Scripture”. This can be easily verified by anyone fluent in Greek. And that means that the passage says literally that “every Scripture” is profitable – and if we are to take the defining Protestant interpretation, “every Scripture” – that is, any particular Scripture verse – is all that is necessary for the faith! Obviously that is preposterous but such a conclusion is necessary if we read “profitable” as “sufficient”. So sorry, try again, for this passage doesn't support your argument at all.
As for the rest of your anti-Catholic rant.... I will address them later, right now I'm off to Mass.
Pax Christi
"from henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ---- Luke 1:48.
