The Sad Lives Of Legalists And Sinless Perfectionists

[sydlit]

I am glad you said this. Most do not see what I am talking about. But I am so joyful you have a pastor who you believe cares for you and the rest of the bretrhen under the Lordship of Jesus Christ and His Word.

Oh, and I am happy that you are learning things here at this site. Always double check (even everything that I say) with the Word of God. For as you know, the Bereans were more noble because:

(1) They kept an open mind.
(2) They searched the Scriptures to see whether those things be so or not.

Anyways, may God bless you (and please be well this fine day).

Hi.I noticed the last post was submitted about an hour ago, about 9am eastime. I hope the talk continues as im learning as Ive been reading along with all the posts. I've had some moments where I wanted to join in, but I feel its better to let the more learned do the instructing. I just hope you all know that as an observer, it seems to me that even though there is debate, its 2 sides of the same coin; that being salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and I say Praise the Lord, To God be the glory. I know that iron sharpens iron, and God leans in and listens when Jesus is the topic of conversation, I just hope you're all regarding each other as brothers and sisters in Christ, and in the end there's no 'permanent' division amongst any of us. Some of the posts make me want to sing for joy over so great a salvation, others make me more than a bit concerned...over my own sin and God's righteous judgement. I hope both reactions can be covered by God's grace. HE IS deserving of all thanks and praise, and He is also deserving of my best effort to put away sin and serve Him diligently, and I confess that I fail to praise OR serve Him very well. Father please forgive me, and please bless those posting about You, helping us all to grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory now and forever amen. Thank you all, and please keep up the edifying conversation. Hopefully I can contribute something worthwhile in a future post. Thanks again.

 

[Jason0047]

Edifying only applies to those who desire to work righteousness only. Not everyone who is claiming to be of Christ's Kingdom will remain. They will be removed because of their condoning of sin or iniquity. For the Scriptures say...

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity" (Matthew 13:41).

For we are not to pull out the weeds. God will remove them in the end of the harvest.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please don't misunderstand my position - when I say confess sins one to another, it's with the understanding that the one or two hearing the confession are mature believers in a position to pray with and give counsel to the confessor - always always always pointing to Christ and His ability to bring healing and redemption and to build up the confessor with the Truths about who they are in Christ according to Scripture.



Posted for your and others' consideration :

[video=youtube;689zk9p6Z0Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=689zk9p6Z0Q[/video]


-JGIG

Amen, part of our christian walk is to confess sins to one another. it not only allows us to get it off our chest, but allows God to use others to help us in our areas of weekness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, and always with Jesus as advocate. (I John 2:1-3) If Jesus' atonement sacrifice was absolutely finished, would there be need for him to be advocate at the right hand of God, and for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Unlike a hireling preacher, Jesus follows up on the sheep who have entered the fold, made possible by his redemptive work.

yes it would be. because we sin, and satan is continuously accusing us to the father. and Jesus steps in.

You see, the fact that jesus is always our atonement proves that our sin was forgiven once and for all.

why is Jesus always being an advocate for us? Because we need it (we lose salvation)

no. this is not what scripture says, he does it because the accuser is always accusing us, and Jesus is always sticking up for us.

 

[Jason0047]

Those who think they can sin and still be saved are not going to make it. There are just too many warnings in the Bible to the believer that they can't presently sin and still receive grace (while they are doing evil). One has to confess and forsake sin in order to receive mercy (Proverbs 28:13). This shouldn't be up for debate. Everyone knows good guys from bad guys by what they do. So if you are doing evil.... guess what? You are evil. If you confessed and forsaken sin, then that is different. One is not living in a lifestyle of immorality and giving into that lifestyle of darkness. For the Scriptures say anyone who does evil hates the light. What is even more silly is those who believe they can sin and still be saved and ignore common basic morality will sometimes use morality to suit their purpose (Which is hypocritical because you either believe in doing good or you don't believe in doing good). For you cannot borrow morality so as to make a point if you really don't follow and or strive after morality.

 

[Jason0047]

This is not about Works Salvationism because it is God who does the work in you.

 

[sydlit]

Those who think they can sin and still be saved are not going to make it. There are just too many warnings in the Bible to the believer that they can't presently sin and still receive grace (while they are doing evil). One has to confess and forsake sin in order to receive mercy (Proverbs 28:13). This shouldn't be up for debate. Everyone knows good guys from bad guys by what they do. So if you are doing evil.... guess what? You are evil. If you confessed and forsaken sin, then that is different. One is not living in a lifestyle of immorality and giving into that lifestyle of darkness. For the Scriptures say anyone who does evil hates the light. What is even more silly is those who believe they can sin and still be saved and ignore common basic morality will sometimes use morality to suit their purpose (Which is hypocritical because you either believe in doing good or you don't believe in doing good).

Just wondering how everybody posting here would answer, if I'm not out of line in asking, I sincerely want to know what people would say..... Did the Lord Jesus Christ die for my sins or didn't He?

 

[jonl]

yes it would be. because we sin, and satan is continuously accusing us to the father. and Jesus steps in.

You see, the fact that jesus is always our atonement proves that our sin was forgiven once and for all.

why is Jesus always being an advocate for us? Because we need it (we lose salvation)

no. this is not what scripture says, he does it because the accuser is always accusing us, and Jesus is always sticking up for us.

I agree that the “accuser is always accusing us, and Jesus is always sticking up for us.” Not only that, the accuser sets up traps for the believer to fall into, but the Lord sees the believer through, even if the believer falls into the trap. Lazarus the beggar was caught in the trap of poverty and he didn’t seem to have any place to go except a dead-end alley, -- but after death he was received up into Paradise.

However, I agree with what Jason said:

Those who think they can sin and still be saved are not going to make it. There are just too many warnings in the Bible to the believer that they can't presently sin and still receive grace (while they are doing evil). One has to confess and forsake sin in order to receive mercy (Proverbs 28:13). This shouldn't be up for debate. Everyone knows good guys from bad guys by what they do. So if you are doing evil.... guess what? You are evil. If you confessed and forsaken sin, then that is different. One is not living in a lifestyle of immorality and giving into that lifestyle of darkness. For the Scriptures say anyone who does evil hates the light. …..

The apostle Paul explained about walking after the Spirit, not after the flesh. The “Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God. Sin tends to take away the witness of the Spirit (kind of like the oil of the lamp carried by the 5 wise virgins, but not like the 5 foolish virgins).

Romans 8:1, 13 and 16:

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
--------------------------

 

[phil112]

Just wondering how everybody posting here would answer, if I'm not out of line in asking, I sincerely want to know what people would say..... Did the Lord Jesus Christ die for my sins or didn't He?

Just wondering if you think Christ died so you could keep sinning and still go to heaven?

 

[Jason0047]

Just wondering how everybody posting here would answer, if I'm not out of line in asking, I sincerely want to know what people would say..... Did the Lord Jesus Christ die for my sins or didn't He?

Christ died for the sins of the entire world. That doesn't mean everyone is forgiven. A new person who comes to Christ has to admit they are a sinner and ask Jesus to forgive them. If they sin again, they have to confess and or forsake that sin. Otherwise they are not forgiven.

 

[gb9]

Just wondering how everybody posting here would answer, if I'm not out of line in asking, I sincerely want to know what people would say..... Did the Lord Jesus Christ die for my sins or didn't He?

yes. but just keep in mind that if you accept Christ as savior, you should have a new heart and new desires. a real saved person will not want to sin. Jason is correct in saying that God's people are good and not evil. so, as said above, grace and forgiveness is not a do-what-ever-you-want card.

 

[senzi]

Just wondering how everybody posting here would answer, if I'm not out of line in asking, I sincerely want to know what people would say..... Did the Lord Jesus Christ die for my sins or didn't He?

Yes, Jesus died for all your sins, past present and future, otherwise you cannot have a righteousness apart from the law.
But as gb9 touched on. Jesus died for those who have been born again of the spirit, those who in their hearts want to obey his father. For Jesus cannot be your saviour from sin otherwise. As he said to nicodemus.
Ye MUST be born again

 

[mailmandan]

Christ died for the sins of the entire world. That doesn't mean everyone is forgiven. A new person who comes to Christ has to admit they are a sinner and ask Jesus to forgive them. If they sin again, they have to confess and or forsake that sin. Otherwise they are not forgiven.

You have admitted in a different post that you have not completely overcome all sin in your life so does that mean you have not completely forsaken that sin and are not forgiven?

 

[Jason0047]

You have admitted in a different post that you have not completely overcome all sin in your life so does that mean you have not completely forsaken that sin and are not forgiven?

Forsaking sin means you turn away from it and that you do not abide in that sin habitually. It means it does not control you every day but it does not mean that you may or may not stumble. But I am not planning on doing any particular sin in the future and I am taking steps according to God's Word to keep myself in Him (According to His Word). Can you say the same? For what does this really matter to you? Do you believe you are different? How is your standard of good better? Why do you not understand that if you give into saying that you will do something sinful in the future you are in fact siding with evil and condoning sin (When it happens)? For I believe I may not sin again because I believe in 1 Peter 4:1 and Galatians 5:24. In other words, I believe I may not have to confess sin ever again. Do you believe that? My guess is that would be a no. For Jesus said..."sin no more." John said.... "sin not." Paul said "be ye angry and sin not."

 

[Jason0047]

In other words, when Jesus and the apostles told us to not sin again.... they did not mean that in a habitual sense. They actually meant what they said. They want God's people to actually stop sinning. Not by their power, but by His power working in them.

 

[Willie-T]

Forsaking sin means you turn away from it and that you do not abide in that sin habitually. It means it does not control you every day but it does not mean that you may or may not stumble. But I am not planning on doing any particular sin in the future and I am taking steps according to God's Word to keep myself in Him (According to His Word). Can you say the same? For what does this really matter to you? Do you believe you are different? How is your standard of good better? Why do you not understand that if you give into saying that you will do something sinful in the future you are in fact siding with evil and condoning sin (When it happens)? For I believe I may not sin again because I believe in 1 Peter 4:1 and Galatians 5:24. In other words, I believe I may not have to confess sin ever again. Do you believe that? My guess is that would be a no. For Jesus said..."sin no more." John said.... "sin not." Paul said "be ye angry and sin not."

Finally! Yet you seem resistant to extend anyone else this same grace.

 

[Jason0047]

Yes, Jesus died for all your sins, past present and future, otherwise you cannot have a righteousness apart from the law.
But as gb9 touched on. Jesus died for those who have been born again of the spirit, those who in their hearts want to obey his father. For Jesus cannot be your saviour from sin otherwise. As he said to nicodemus.
Ye MUST be born again

Why even bother to talk about God and or to do good ever again if you are forgiven of all future sin? Is that how one shows that they love God?

 

[Jason0047]

Finally! Yet you seem resistant to extend anyone else this same grace.

No, you misunderstand. I am not condoning sin. I confess and forsake sin. Forsake means that I do not abide in unrepentant sin that leads unto death habitually. Neither do I teach that one can die in unrepentant sin like lying, lusting, and hating and still be saved. Neither do I teach that it is wrong to say that one can stop sinning (Thereby making an excuse that I will sin again in the future). So your version of grace is not the same one that I am teaching in the slightest.

 

[Magenta]

You have admitted in a different post that you have not completely overcome all sin in your life so does that mean you have not completely forsaken that sin and are not forgiven?

I have a slightly different understanding because of the way I have experienced God, even while I was still running from Him in disobedience, rebellion, and defiance. I consider myself to have been lost at that time from my present perspective, but God knew exactly where I was. This was quite a few years ago, twenty seven to be more exact. My marriage had broken down following two first-trimester miscarriages, and a still birth that occurred less than two weeks before the nuptials. I also had a lot of baggage from my past that I had been unable to deal with/put "closure" on. It was around Passover in 1988, and a neighborhood evangelical Christian church was showing a movie on the life of Christ based on the Gospel of Luke. I had been brought up in a fairly strict religious environment but did not know Jesus, and was curious, and living in a world of unremitting emotional pain, so I went. As I sat in that church after seeing the first or second part of that movie, I am not sure at what point the following happened: my whole body was filled with the Light of God's unconditional love and forgiveness for me and all I had done, all the ways I had messed up my life, all my failures and mistakes, all of it bathed in the Light of His absolute understanding of how and why I had become the person I was, all of it bathed in the Light of His unconditional love and total forgiveness. I tell you, I wept. I felt so broken and so lost and so unredeemable, but most of all I felt unworthy. And of course I am unworthy.

Even after that, oh yes, it was a cherished experience, but even after that I did not believe in "that" God. I had begun a spiritual seeking phase, and carried on in that for another sixteen years until God clearly called me out of what I was doing. And yes, even after that, even after that clear calling out, my stiff-necked stubbornness was so set against Him it took another year following the calling out for me to surrender my life to Him.

 

[Willie-T]

Why even bother to talk about God and or to do good ever again if you are forgiven of all future sin? Is that how one shows that they love God?

What's the book say? "We love Him BECAUSE He first loved us." It's a willing thankfulness to God..... NOT an attempt to be good enough to earn something.... to "PROVE" we love God.