Here is Joseph Prince......

[Budman]

I seriously question the salvation of those who appose teachings such as, speaking things into existence, like God did.

Okay - speak a universe into existence, like God did.

Or, even a single blade of grass.

Like I said, if you really believed in that word-of-faith nonsense, you'd go to St. Jude's children's hospital and name-and-claim them all cancer free.

Word-of-faith an injured soldier back a missing limb. Go ahead. After all, you said you can speak things into existence.

Use the power of your words to banish hunger from the world.

You won't even try, because you know you can't.

 

[Willie-T]

Hagee literally claimed that Jesus did not come to be the messiah at all. He later corrected his error in the book "Jerusalem Countdown."

I didn't read the book, but I would imagine he clarified his position, rather than "corrected his error".

Why? Because Jesus did NOT come to be the sword-wielding king and ruler of the Earthly Israel (their vision of the messiah) that many Jews were hoping for and expecting. (He even rejected the desire of the people to make him king.)

This kind of jumping to mistaken conclusions seems to happen to nay-sayers a lot. Recently one of them posted a 7-minute video clip of Joseph Prince saying to "believe, and speak it out loud so that you, yourself actually hear the words, and the understanding gets down inside you." That was immediately turned into him "speaking material things into existence."

Again, Why? Because we will find what we are looking for... all of us, even people who understand Grace. And the nay-sayers are looking for anything that may sound like a reason they feel Grace should be rejected.

They did the same thing to Paul... all the time. So, it's doubtful that will ever change.

 

[Budman]

I didn't read the book, but I would imagine he clarified his position, rather than "corrected his error".

Why? Because Jesus did NOT come to be the sword-wielding king and ruler of the Earthly Israel (their vision of the messiah) that many Jews were hoping for and expecting. (He even rejected the desire of the people to make him king.)

This kind of jumping to mistaken conclusions seems to happen to nay-sayers a lot. Recently one of them posted a 7-minute video clip of Joseph Prince saying to "believe, and speak it out loud so that you, yourself actually hear the words, and the understanding gets down inside you." That was immediately turned into him "speaking material things into existence."

Again, Why? Because we will find what we are looking for... all of us, even people who understand Grace. And the nay-sayers are looking for anything that may sound like a reason they feel Grace should be rejected.

They did the same thing to Paul... all the time. So, it's doubtful that will ever change.

No, Willie. He actually took it out of the book.

As far as the rest, believe what you want. Everyone can hear and judge Prince for themselves. But it appears quite plainly you are putting Prince up on a pedestal and will not tolerate any criticism of him.

 

[Willie-T]

No, Willie. He actually took it out of the book.

As far as the rest, believe what you want. Everyone can hear and judge Prince for themselves. But it appears quite plainly you are putting Prince up on a pedestal and will not tolerate any criticism of him.

Pedestal? Not at all. My wife and I butt heads all the time over times when I think he is stretching things too much in one of his favorite areas, numerology and word association. Even to this very day. And I firmly believe he is missing the boat about penal atonement.

Besides the fact that I can hardly stand to listen to him on TV. (His books are so much better than his visual presentation, as far as I'm concerned.)

But when it comes to Grace, I tried HARD to find fault with what he says when I first started studying this about five or six years ago... REAL hard.... yet I had to come to the conclusion that he was teaching "Bible", not the TRADITIONS OF MEN that I had grown up being told were true.

 

[Willie-T]

No, Willie. He actually took it out of the book.

Would you COPY his admission of error to a post here? I'd be interested in that. (You can even photo it with you cell phone if you don't have a copier.)

I can certainly understand removing something from a book that really doesn't concern Salvation if all it does is get people angry. That makes sense. After all, he is trying to REACH people, not chase them off. I think any good servant of God would do that.

 

[ladylynn]

Here's a video where Prince teaches about "speaking" things into existence. (see 4:25 - 4:35) He even says that you don't even need much faith as long as you keep speaking what you desire. In it, he also claims God speaks to him personally (which he has claimed many times). He also claims that we are seated on Christ's throne! (5:18 - 5:23)

This should disturb any Christian.

[video=youtube;-UrZ8IoW7oU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UrZ8IoW7oU[/video]

This is a good message he gives. Just gotta listen to it all the way through. I enjoyed it.

 

[Willie-T]

This is a good message he gives. Just gotta listen to it all the way through. I enjoyed it.

I'd like to but the CD cuts into the money I save to buy books......... besides, I honestly don't dig his video presentations all that much. I guess he is like Paul that way.... he writes a great book, but not so much, the speaking. (IMHO)

 

[ladylynn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fIqZ5sPSEg











This youtube video is about "Does Grace Give People a license to sin" Very interesting and telling how grace has been removed, not abused in this day and age.

 

[ladylynn]

I'd like to but the CD cuts into the money I save to buy books......... besides, I honestly don't dig his video presentations all that much. I guess he is like Paul that way.... he writes a great book, but not so much, the speaking. (IMHO)

I like his way of communicating on the videos because he is easy to understand and even his jokes while at times are stupid, I find him pretty funny at times too. I do a lot of driving so enjoy listening to CDs of different preachers. Also, I've never listened to many Indian or Chinese preachers so the accent is also different and took some time to get used to.

Overall I find he is a preacher who brings out so much of the OT applying it to the NT showing how the covenants have changed. I am in more agreement with your wife about him.

I like Andrew Wommack even though he does not teach the rapture of the church as far as I can tell from his commentaries. I am a firm believer in the church being taken away in 1 Thess.4:13-18 before the Tribulation period.

 

[Willie-T]

And I see no "Rapture", at all, save the final appearance of Christ, when we will all "be caught up in the air." (See? I told you we would probably soon disagree.)

 

[blondieindahouse]

I'd like to but the CD cuts into the money I save to buy books......... besides, I honestly don't dig his video presentations all that much. I guess he is like Paul that way.... he writes a great book, but not so much, the speaking. (IMHO)

You didnt just compare JP to Paul did you? smh...............
Thanks for the laugh!

 

[Willie-T]

You didnt just compare JP to Paul did you? smh...............
Thanks for the laugh!

I dunno. You might be like that, yourself. (in reverse) Your speech might come across better than your writing. See? We can all be compared to someone else in some way. And Paul was just a man, not a god.

 

[ladylynn]

And I see no "Rapture", at all, save the final appearance of Christ, when we will all "be caught up in the air." (See? I told you we would probably soon disagree.)

That's OK Willie-T, I still respect you even when your wrong on occasion...

 

[Willie-T]

That's OK Willie-T, I still respect you even when your wrong on occasion...

And I will extend the same grace to you. I have no problem with people who disagree with me... I feel everyone has the right to be wrong.

 

[phil36]

I think this says it all about Joseph prince...

"The bottom line is that the Holy Spirit never convicts you of your sins. He NEVER comes to point out your faults. I challenge you to find a scripture in the Bible that tells you that the Holy Spirit has come to convict you of your sins. You won't find any! The body of Christ is living in defeat because many believers don't undertand that the Holy spirit is actually int hem to convict them of their righteousness in Christ. Even when you fail, He is ever present in you to remind you that you are continually cleansed by the blood of Jesus. That's the Holy Spirit. ... When you've failed, the Holy Spirit convicts you of righteousness, not your sins." p.134,135.


Same old, same old antinomianism of course it is consistent with his word of faith teaching...that your words create into existence.

 

[Willie-T]

I think this says it all about Joseph prince...

"The bottom line is that the Holy Spirit never convicts you of your sins. He NEVER comes to point out your faults. I challenge you to find a scripture in the Bible that tells you that the Holy Spirit has come to convict you of your sins. You won't find any! The body of Christ is living in defeat because many believers don't undertand that the Holy spirit is actually int hem to convict them of their righteousness in Christ. Even when you fail, He is ever present in you to remind you that you are continually cleansed by the blood of Jesus. That's the Holy Spirit. ... When you've failed, the Holy Spirit convicts you of righteousness, not your sins." p.134,135.


Same old, same old antinomianism of course it is consistent with his word of faith teaching...that your words create into existence.

Let's look at those verses logically....
John 16:
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. (kjv)

Who is He speaking of in verse 9? Believers? Hardly! It plainly says these guys who He is convicting of sin don't believe in Him.

How about verse 10? The people He is speaking of will not see Him anymore. (Do you think there might be a slight chance these were Believers?) The "World" wouldn't care about any of this, or even consider it.

Then verse 11. You can deny it if you choose, but He is talking about Satan.


Three verses, talking about three different peoples and subjects. The first, about "The World" that does not believe in Him.... the second, Believers who He is giving words of hope because of where He is going.... the third, an assurance that Satan is going to be judged.

 

[phil36]

Let's look at those verses logically....
John 16:
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. (kjv)

Who is He speaking of in verse 9? Believers? Hardly! It plainly says these guys who He is convicting of sin don't believe in Him.

How about verse 10? The people He is speaking of will not see Him anymore. (Do you think there might be a slight chance these were Believers?) The "World" wouldn't care about any of this, or even consider it.

Then verse 11. You can deny it if you choose, but He is talking about Satan.


Three verses, talking about three different peoples and subjects. The first, about "The World" that does not believe in Him.... the second, Believers who He is giving words of hope because of where He is going.... the third, an assurance that Satan is going to be judged.

I understand John 16... but the above Prince quote is just really the primer from where he goes totally bonkers. How about this next one: (of course we might add that the Spirit will lead us into all truth, but anyhow lets stick specifically with Princes statements...


"For all of you who feel that there should be more preaching on repentance, do you know what the word ‘repent' means in the first place? The word ‘repent' is the Greek word matanoeo, which according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon, simply means ‘to change one's mind.' But because we have been influenced by our denominational background as well as our own religious upbringing, many of us have the impression that repentance is something that involves mourning and sorrow. However, that is not what the Word of God says. Repentance just means changing your mind."

Really? is that what μετάνοια metanoia actually means and in context?

 

[JGIG]

I understand John 16... but the above Prince quote is just really the primer from where he goes totally bonkers. How about this next one: (of course we might add that the Spirit will lead us into all truth, but anyhow lets stick specifically with Princes statements...


"For all of you who feel that there should be more preaching on repentance, do you know what the word ‘repent' means in the first place? The word ‘repent' is the Greek word matanoeo, which according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon, simply means ‘to change one's mind.' But because we have been influenced by our denominational background as well as our own religious upbringing, many of us have the impression that repentance is something that involves mourning and sorrow. However, that is not what the Word of God says. Repentance just means changing your mind."

Really? is that what μετάνοια metanoia actually means and in context?

G3341 metanoia

1. a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done

From G3340 metanoeō

1. to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
2. to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

And we wonder why Romans 12 tells us,

I appeal to you therefore, brothers,by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.​

-JGIG

Str​

 

[know1]

Okay - speak a universe into existence, like God did.

Or, even a single blade of grass.

Like I said, if you really believed in that word-of-faith nonsense, you'd go to St. Jude's children's hospital and name-and-claim them all cancer free.

Word-of-faith an injured soldier back a missing limb. Go ahead. After all, you said you can speak things into existence.

Use the power of your words to banish hunger from the world.

You won't even try, because you know you can't.

I'm sorry, I'm not up to the point to where I can create worlds...yet, but I am up to things on a much smaller scale. I already told you, the thing works by faith. Read it for yourself, it's in there.
However, like that which is written in the bible, this is not about me, nor is it about you, but about Jesus and what He has already done for us and about trusting Him to do exactly what He promised He would do in His word.
If you could get your eyes off the natural for a moment and look at what is written, you might actually be able to hear what Jesus is saying. The carnally minded have a very difficult time looking at the word of God over the natural.
The way it works is, you must believe it first, before you see it or before it is. I have yet to see that in your writings.
You still haven't proven even one thing scripturally contrary to the sound doctrine of name it claim it.
And don't you believe that God still talks to His children. I have heard Him many times. Some louder and clearer than others. The closer you walk with Him and the more you do what He tells you to do, the more He talks to you, and the clearer His voice becomes.
Sir, don't hate a doctrine because it goes against your denomination's teachings, but desire and seek the truth of God without bias.

 

[phil36]

G3341 metanoia

1. a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done

From G3340 metanoeō

1. to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
2. to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

And we wonder why Romans 12 tells us,

I appeal to you therefore, brothers,by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.​

-JGIG

Str​

Hi,

Anyone can go to a Greek lexicon and and find the meaning of a word and its cognates..

Since you know Greek, here we have Paul telling us about repentance from '''' Dead Works''' that is SIN!!!

You may also notice it says in the Greek.. that you were grieved into repentance (the NIV states it was their 'sorrow' that lead them to repentance)..I wonder why they where sorrowful??? Maybe it was because of their sin..they surely were not sorrowful of their righteousness.

Words have meaning when put together in a sentence. That's how language works.. anyhow here is the Greek for you (context is key).

νῦν χαίρω, οὐχ ὅτι ἐλυπήθητε, ἀλλ’ ὅτι ἐλυπήθητε εἰς μετάνοιαν· ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν, ἵνα ἐν μηδενὶ ζημιωθῆτε ἐξ ἡμῶν (NA 1904)

ESV,

As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us.

NIV

yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.

KJV

Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.


And on and on... I hope you get the point. Joseph prince did the exact same thing you have done... taken a word and not put it into any biblical context and used it to try and prove his word of faith hyper grace.



What about this verse:

2 Corinthians 12:21 - I fear that when I come again my God may humble me before you, and I may have to mourn over many of those who sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and sensuality that they have practiced.

and this one:

Revelation 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

You see know one will understand why they need the good news if they don't know what the bad news is... and christians won't live a fruitful life if they don't repent from their sins....for they will feel grief over their sins.... and if you say you have no sin...you are a liar (not my words)