Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[Jackson123]

The 2nd beast is the false prophet that follows the man of sin and causes the world to worship the 1st beast, as both of these beasts walk at the same time. They do not come at separate periods of time. The two horns represent apostate religion and false religion combined as one !!!

seem to me, the first beast in power only for the first 42 months.

Then the last beast show up. The last beast may there when the first beast show up, but he work behind the screen.

I don't know if the last beast is false prophet.

In his (last beast) every body must have a mark, not in the first beast.(verse 16)

Look like mark of the beast happen only in the antichrist time not in the first beast.




may be, Muslim is the first beast prepare for the second beast show up.

Then may be Pope is the second beast/antichrist.

because in his time mark of the beast being force. ( verse 16)

[SUP]5[/SUP] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
[SUP]6[/SUP] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[SUP]7[/SUP] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
[SUP]8[/SUP] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
[SUP]9[/SUP] If any man have an ear, let him hear.
[SUP]10[/SUP] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
[SUP]11[/SUP] And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
[SUP]12[/SUP] And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
[SUP]13[/SUP] And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
[SUP]14[/SUP] And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
[SUP]15[/SUP] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[SUP]16[/SUP] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[SUP]17[/SUP] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[SUP]18[/SUP] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[Jackson123]

1 John 2
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.

The last antichrist went out from us but not belong to us.

Look like christian but not.

Seem to me Muslim is not fit with this description. Muslim is not went out from us, every body know muslim is not christian.

But catholic is more for this description.

a lot of people think catholic went out from us/look like christian, but is not belong to us/not christian.

 

[mwc68]

1 John 2
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.

The last antichrist went out from us but not belong to us.

Look like christian but not.

Seem to me Muslim is not fit with this description. Muslim is not went out from us, every body know muslim is not christian.

But catholic is more for this description.

a lot of people think catholic went out from us/look like christian, but is not belong to us/not christian.

The way I see it you went out of us with the reformation. We have always been here

 

[flob]

It was Catholicism that excommunicated Martin Luther...
But regardless, the New Testament compared with Catholicism...........is two different things.
Some truths, like Jesus is God + man, Catholicism wonderfully has : )
Other things it has are pagan. Hence the mixture described in Rv 17:2-6; 2:18-24; Mt 13:31-33.
And her ultimate judgment, Rv 17:16-18

 

[mwc68]

It was Catholicism that excommunicated Martin Luther...
But regardless, the New Testament compared with Catholicism...........is two different things.
Some truths, like Jesus is God + man, Catholicism wonderfully has : )
Other things it has are pagan. Hence the mixture described in Rv 17:2-6; 2:18-24; Mt 13:31-33.
And her ultimate judgment, Rv 17:16-18

Please explain the paganism in the Church . I know some pagans and a few wiccans is why I ask. I don't think anything we do is pagan

 

[Jackson123]

The way I see it you went out of us with the reformation. We have always been here

So you believe antichrist from Lutheran?

Don't you said one world government is Muslim?


RCC is went out from christian but is not.

Rcc promote one world government, Lutheran does not.

RCC Leader is both religious leader and religion leader.

Rev 13 describe the beast has authority to all nation/political leader, and all nation worship him/ worship/talking about religion.

Pope is political leader because Vatican is a country and religious leader as well.

 

[mwc68]

So you believe antichrist from Lutheran?

Don't you said one world government is Muslim?


RCC is went out from christian but is not.

Rcc promote one world government, Lutheran does not.

RCC Leader is both religious leader and religion leader.

Rev 13 describe the beast has authority to all nation/political leader, and all nation worship him/ worship/talking about religion.

Pope is political leader because Vatican is a country and religious leader as well.

See what you do? Did I say the Antichrist is Lutheran? No

 

[Jackson123]

See what you do? Did I say the Antichrist is Lutheran? No

This is what you said

The way I see it you went out of us with the reformation. We have always been here

and I ask you question if you believe/mean reformation is Lutheran?


If not what do you mean by reformation?

 

[mwc68]

This is what you said

The way I see it you went out of us with the reformation. We have always been here

and I ask you question if you believe/mean reformation is Lutheran?


If not what do you mean by reformation?

You have 30,000 denominations plus since the reformation. I didn't single out Lutheran. I think you need to go back on ignore. That was peaceful

 

[Mec99]

1 John 1:5-7
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

How can a person be deceived if he is walking in the Light with Jesus Christ?

The only reason a person is deceived is because they are walking in darkness.

1 John 2:9-11
[SUP]9 [/SUP] He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

 

[KennethC]

seem to me, the first beast in power only for the first 42 months.

Then the last beast show up. The last beast may there when the first beast show up, but he work behind the screen.

I don't know if the last beast is false prophet.

In his (last beast) every body must have a mark, not in the first beast.(verse 16)

Look like mark of the beast happen only in the antichrist time not in the first beast.




may be, Muslim is the first beast prepare for the second beast show up.

Then may be Pope is the second beast/antichrist.

because in his time mark of the beast being force. ( verse 16)

[SUP]5[/SUP] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
[SUP]6[/SUP] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[SUP]7[/SUP] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
[SUP]8[/SUP] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
[SUP]9[/SUP] If any man have an ear, let him hear.
[SUP]10[/SUP] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
[SUP]11[/SUP] And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
[SUP]12[/SUP] And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
[SUP]13[/SUP] And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
[SUP]14[/SUP] And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
[SUP]15[/SUP] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[SUP]16[/SUP] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[SUP]17[/SUP] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[SUP]18[/SUP] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

No no no, they are both in power at the same time and the 42 months mentioned in verse 5 is the GT as once again the GT is 42 months = 3 1/2 years = 1, 260 days = time times and half a time.


You have one political leader (man of sin) and one religious leader (false prophet).

They are both in power at the same time and are both cast into the lake of fire at the same time by the Lord;

Revelation 19:20

And the beast (1st beast) was taken, and with him the false prophet (2nd beast) that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Revelation 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast (1st beast) and the false prophet (2nd beast) are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[flob]

'You' have 30,000 denominations?
Who is 'you'? Noncatholics? The Noncatholic Church?
I guess it's fair for Orthodoxy to accuse Catholicism of the same thing, or Buddhists.

Catholicism itself is a division. In that it's contrary to the pattern (and practice) of the apostles' church, Christ's church, the church(es) in the New Testament.

Please explain the paganism in the Church . I know some pagans and a few wiccans is why I ask. I don't think anything we do is pagan

And not Catholicism alone (by the way: you're under no obligation to stay there).
For example the Saturnalia or whatever precise term pagan Rome practiced, on the winter solstice. Was picked up by Constantine the Great or his successors, I believe, or Christianity at the time, as a means of trying to make Christ more palatable or welcome to the world. Hence the date, as well as a lot of the little accoutrements (sp). Not only from Rome and its Sun god, but also from other cultures where a 'christian' religion spread.

Other themes were common in pagan worship such as the funny fish hat the Pope wears, the whole costume of Catholicism's priests...........which likewise Eastern Orthodoxy and many Protestant Denominations have carried on., the mystery mass worship-----which only a 'priest' can perform, for his audience of lay-people. I got a lot of this history from reading works by G.H. Pember. The idea of sacred buildings, things, artifacts, bones, water, with magic or mysterious properties inherent.

 

[mwc68]

'You' have 30,000 denominations?
Who is 'you'? Noncatholics? The Noncatholic Church?
I guess it's fair for Orthodoxy to accuse Catholicism of the same thing, or Buddhists.

Catholicism itself is a division. In that it's contrary to the pattern (and practice) of the apostles' church, Christ's church, the church(es) in the New Testament.


And not Catholicism alone (by the way: you're under no obligation to stay there).
For example the Saturnalia or whatever precise term pagan Rome practiced, on the winter solstice. Was picked up by Constantine the Great or his successors, I believe, or Christianity at the time, as a means of trying to make Christ more palatable or welcome to the world. Hence the date, as well as a lot of the little accoutrements (sp). Not only from Rome and its Sun god, but also from other cultures where a 'christian' religion spread.

Other themes were common in pagan worship such as the funny fish hat the Pope wears, the whole costume of Catholicism's priests...........which likewise Eastern Orthodoxy and many Protestant Denominations have carried on., the mystery mass worship-----which only a 'priest' can perform, for his audience of lay-people. I got a lot of this history from reading works by G.H. Pember. The idea of sacred buildings, things, artifacts, bones, water, with magic or mysterious properties inherent.

Well, if you want to think what we do is pagan i can't stop you.

 

[Mec99]

One of the hardest thing a person can ever do is leave the Catholic Church to find the Truth. There is a lot of pressure on Catholics to stay in the Catholic Church.

 

[mwc68]

One of the hardest thing a person can ever do is leave the Catholic Church to find the Truth. There is a lot of pressure on Catholics to stay in the Catholic Church.

Why would I leave the Church to wade into this mess? None of you really agree on much. Just look through the threads. About the only thing you agree on is your hatred of Catholics

 

[Jackson123]

You have 30,000 denominations plus since the reformation. I didn't single out Lutheran. I think you need to go back on ignore. That was peaceful

So you mean went out from us is went out from catholic and it is protestant.

I am not agree with you in this case.

Apostle john said went out from us.

In His time there is not RCC

In his time us mean christian.

And RCC went out from Christian.

Look like Christian but not.

In apostle John time and entire NT there isn't teaching about purgatory, make Mary statue and pray in front of that statue.

 

[Jackson123]

No no no, they are both in power at the same time and the 42 months mentioned in verse 5 is the GT as once again the GT is 42 months = 3 1/2 years = 1, 260 days = time times and half a time.


You have one political leader (man of sin) and one religious leader (false prophet).

They are both in power at the same time and are both cast into the lake of fire at the same time by the Lord;

Revelation 19:20

And the beast (1st beast) was taken, and with him the false prophet (2nd beast) that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Revelation 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast (1st beast) and the false prophet (2nd beast)are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I don't know what do you mean by GT.

but it mention in verse 5 his power was given for 42 months.
[SUP]5[/SUP] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

 

[mwc68]

So you mean went out from us is went out from catholic and it is protestant.

I am not agree with you in this case.

Apostle john said went out from us.

In His time there is not RCC

In his time us mean christian.

And RCC went out from Christian.

Look like Christian but not.

In apostle John time and entire NT there isn't teaching about purgatory, make Mary statue and pray in front of that statue.

Yeah, back on ignore! Cya

 

[KennethC]

I don't know what do you mean by GT.

but it mention in verse 5 his power was given for 42 months.
[SUP]5[/SUP]And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Yes he was given power for 42 months to persecute and kill the Jews and Christians, and the Lord comes back at the end of the 42 months (1,260 days)(3 1/2 years).

He will be in power for those 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation and the false prophet (2nd beast) will force others to worship him (1st beast) during this time.

This once again is where the similarity to the Roman empire comes into play, because the Roman empire had two leaders; one being the political leader and the other was the religious leader.

 

[Gr8grace]

Why would I leave the Church to wade into this mess? None of you really agree on much. Just look through the threads. About the only thing you agree on is your hatred of Catholics

I would venture to guess that absolutely no one here hates catholics.

And I would agree, If you are paying attention to the man and how we act with each other, there is no reason to leave.

But if the Spirit is working, and Gives you a nugget of a MESSAGE from each of us idiots.........I don't see how one could stay in the catholic church.

mwc68, if you read between the lines and can get over the personal insults...........there are a lot of "catholic" believers here, they just have been taught to fight against catholics.

Just about anybody here that believes in loss of salvation, follows most of what the catholic church believes......they have just been duped into thinking that they are not catholic in their beliefs.