Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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I don't think bullying someone over their spiritual beliefs is at all a Christian attitude. Ken, that is exactly what you are doing.
mwc68, I am not Catholic, and I do not agree with the belief, but I will not harass you over it. I will give you some reasons I do not agree with Catholicism and if I am wrong in anything I say feel free to correct me.
A lot of what is preached in the Catholic church is within scripture, but some of the practices I question.
I do not agree with the hierarchy. The only mediator between us and God is Jesus. Not a nun, priest, pope or anyone else in authority in the Catholic church.
I don't agree with them not being allowed to marry. God did not create us to be alone, and forbidding marriage in order to serve God in a certain way kinda makes marriage look bad. Isn't it believed that Peter was the first pope? He was married.
The high regard for saints doesn't seem to go along with the bible as well. Praying to them is also witchcraft. God forbids contacting the dead in the Old and New Testament.
The priesthood is also an Old Testament practice. If one is going to accept OT practices then they need to accept them all. Which would include animal sacrifice.
mwc68, I am not Catholic, and I do not agree with the belief, but I will not harass you over it. I will give you some reasons I do not agree with Catholicism and if I am wrong in anything I say feel free to correct me.
A lot of what is preached in the Catholic church is within scripture, but some of the practices I question.
I do not agree with the hierarchy. The only mediator between us and God is Jesus. Not a nun, priest, pope or anyone else in authority in the Catholic church.
I don't agree with them not being allowed to marry. God did not create us to be alone, and forbidding marriage in order to serve God in a certain way kinda makes marriage look bad. Isn't it believed that Peter was the first pope? He was married.
The high regard for saints doesn't seem to go along with the bible as well. Praying to them is also witchcraft. God forbids contacting the dead in the Old and New Testament.
The priesthood is also an Old Testament practice. If one is going to accept OT practices then they need to accept them all. Which would include animal sacrifice.
The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: "Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body the he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church had fittingly and properly called transubstantiation.
---CCC 1376 pg. 347 2nd edition
---CCC 1376 pg. 347 2nd edition
Valiant, I lack your cut-paste-quoting skills.
You are right that much of the dogma dividing RCs and Proddies does not arise from "scripture" - but far from all.
They do try to justify their stance on penance, confession, transubstantiation and a whole heap of other stuff on their version of the bible.
All those sects which you say distort the scripture actually supports my case - what you call 'distort', others call 'interpretation'.
Of the denominations I listed, and there are hundreds (or even thousands) more, half-an-hour's Googling will reveal basic differences even on the means of salvation - probably not considered 'minor' by many.
................................................................................................................................
You might be surprised how many Christians believe in reincarnation. Perhaps not many as part of their church dogma - but belief nonetheless.
One survey (which I could probably track down if you insist) reckons 30%-40%.
Several Christian denominations which support reincarnation include the Christian Community, the Liberal Catholic Church, Unity Church, The Christian Spiritualist Movement, the Rosicrucian Fellowship, The Orthodox Catholic Church and others.
I actually was quite involved in one such group for several years.
And there is some biblical support for it
"This is the one ... there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist.... And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 11:11-15).
"And the disciples asked him, saying, 'Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?' But he answered them and said, 'Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand.' Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matthew 17:10-13)
"But I tell you, Elijah has come." (Mark 9:13)
"And as he was passing by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, 'Rabbi, who has sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?" Jesus answered, 'Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents, but the works of God were to be made manifest in him.'" (John 9:1)Malachi 1:2-3and Romans 9:11-13 both state that God loved Jacob, but hate Esau even before they were born.
These verses are highly suggestive of the pre-existence of Esau, a necessary tenet associated with reincarnation.
Also, Josephus tells us that both the Essenes and the Pharisees were into reincarnation.
As were the esteemed church fathers Origen, St Jerome and others - and the Gnostics and later the Cathars.
sorry - got carried away on that one - the other stuff will have to wait.
You are right that much of the dogma dividing RCs and Proddies does not arise from "scripture" - but far from all.
They do try to justify their stance on penance, confession, transubstantiation and a whole heap of other stuff on their version of the bible.
All those sects which you say distort the scripture actually supports my case - what you call 'distort', others call 'interpretation'.
Of the denominations I listed, and there are hundreds (or even thousands) more, half-an-hour's Googling will reveal basic differences even on the means of salvation - probably not considered 'minor' by many.
................................................................................................................................
You might be surprised how many Christians believe in reincarnation. Perhaps not many as part of their church dogma - but belief nonetheless.
One survey (which I could probably track down if you insist) reckons 30%-40%.
Several Christian denominations which support reincarnation include the Christian Community, the Liberal Catholic Church, Unity Church, The Christian Spiritualist Movement, the Rosicrucian Fellowship, The Orthodox Catholic Church and others.
I actually was quite involved in one such group for several years.
And there is some biblical support for it
"This is the one ... there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist.... And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 11:11-15).
"And the disciples asked him, saying, 'Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?' But he answered them and said, 'Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand.' Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matthew 17:10-13)
"But I tell you, Elijah has come." (Mark 9:13)
"And as he was passing by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, 'Rabbi, who has sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?" Jesus answered, 'Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents, but the works of God were to be made manifest in him.'" (John 9:1)Malachi 1:2-3and Romans 9:11-13 both state that God loved Jacob, but hate Esau even before they were born.
These verses are highly suggestive of the pre-existence of Esau, a necessary tenet associated with reincarnation.
Also, Josephus tells us that both the Essenes and the Pharisees were into reincarnation.
As were the esteemed church fathers Origen, St Jerome and others - and the Gnostics and later the Cathars.
sorry - got carried away on that one - the other stuff will have to wait.
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"Verified apparitions including Fatima".
Who verified the apparitions? It was the people who claimed they saw this that verified it. This is not verification. Any false Christian can say anything they want and claim its true.
There is no proof this happened because there was no verification of this outside of the Catholic Church. The Catholics see nothing wrong with lying. They see nothing wrong doing the Will of Satan in deceiving people into following Mary as their God.
When will you Catholics reject all the lies from the Catholic Church and turn to God and Worship Him only? When will you Catholics reject the false teachings of the Catholic Church and accept the Truths from God?
It will never happen.
The Catholic Church is on the wide broad road that leads to the Lake of Fire and they are trying their best to take as many people with them into the Lake of Fire.
Who verified the apparitions? It was the people who claimed they saw this that verified it. This is not verification. Any false Christian can say anything they want and claim its true.
There is no proof this happened because there was no verification of this outside of the Catholic Church. The Catholics see nothing wrong with lying. They see nothing wrong doing the Will of Satan in deceiving people into following Mary as their God.
When will you Catholics reject all the lies from the Catholic Church and turn to God and Worship Him only? When will you Catholics reject the false teachings of the Catholic Church and accept the Truths from God?
It will never happen.
The Catholic Church is on the wide broad road that leads to the Lake of Fire and they are trying their best to take as many people with them into the Lake of Fire.
[h=1]Mark 14:22-24King James Version (KJV)[/h]22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
Jesus there, and he took a bread, He not cut Himself.
it mean figurative.
Why bread you eat in your communion not turn to meat?
It is visible with naked eyes, it is bread not meat, they lie to you in front of your nose. It is bread, your don't need to take to lab.
with your naked eyes enough. it is bread and not turn to meat.
March 25, 2013
Last week, Pope Francis received a collection of world religious leaders in his first ecumenical and interreligious event. His address to them contained diplomatic niceties and specific expressions of good will aimed at Orthodox, Protestants, Jews, and Muslims.
His remarks to the latter recognized that Muslims “worship the one living and merciful God, and call upon him in prayer.” In this he echoed the 1964 dogmatic constitution Lumen Gentium, which gave a nod to “the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.”
The Catholic Church does believe Muslims are Christians following God.
What more proof do the Catholics need to see how corrupt the Catholic Church is in rejecting God?
Last week, Pope Francis received a collection of world religious leaders in his first ecumenical and interreligious event. His address to them contained diplomatic niceties and specific expressions of good will aimed at Orthodox, Protestants, Jews, and Muslims.
His remarks to the latter recognized that Muslims “worship the one living and merciful God, and call upon him in prayer.” In this he echoed the 1964 dogmatic constitution Lumen Gentium, which gave a nod to “the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.”
The Catholic Church does believe Muslims are Christians following God.
What more proof do the Catholics need to see how corrupt the Catholic Church is in rejecting God?
I find it interesting that you Elizabeth619 believe that bringing the Truths from the Holy Spirit to the Catholics is bullying them. So do you believe then that Paul was bullying people when he brought the Truth in the Scriptures to the World?
We are to bring the Truth to the World and that also includes the Catholics.
We are to bring the Truth to the World and that also includes the Catholics.
If you were merely bringing your version of "the Truths from the Holy Spirit to the Catholics", kindly and politely,
that would not be "bullying".
Your never-ending personal attacks and abuse of MWC and your litany of lies and exaggerations regarding Roman Catholic beliefs is bullying !
Play nice.
PS: and I am most definitely not a Catholic. Just like to see reasoned discussion without the vindictiveness.
that would not be "bullying".
Your never-ending personal attacks and abuse of MWC and your litany of lies and exaggerations regarding Roman Catholic beliefs is bullying !
Play nice.
PS: and I am most definitely not a Catholic. Just like to see reasoned discussion without the vindictiveness.