Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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I do not need to produce Scripture that says Mary died. Its YOU who HAS to produce the Scriptures that says Mary was assumed into Heaven. Its you who claim Mary was assumed and its up to you to prove Mary was assumed into Heaven.
Show me Book, Chapter, and verse where God said Mary was assumed into Heaven. If you cannot produce any verses that proves your point, proves the assumption of Mary is from evil men in the Corrupted Roman Catholic Church and not from the Holy Spirit.
I can judge that you mwc68 do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. How can i do this you ask? Its simple, all those who teach the opposite of what the Holy Spirit teaches do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Here is the proof you are not a Christian mwc68.
Romans 3:9-12
[SUP]9 [/SUP]for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written, " THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
[SUP]12 [/SUP] ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
Mary was not righteous, Mary did not seek God, Mary became useless, and Mary never did good!
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Even Mary sinned and was a sinner!
The Holy Spirit says Mary was a sinner, you say Mary had no sin. This proves you mwc68 do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit which means you do not have Salvation either.
Therefore i can judge you because you are not a True Christian. I cannot judge True Christians because God said not to, but since you are not a Christian i can judge you all i want mwc68.
Show me Book, Chapter, and verse where God said Mary was assumed into Heaven. If you cannot produce any verses that proves your point, proves the assumption of Mary is from evil men in the Corrupted Roman Catholic Church and not from the Holy Spirit.
I can judge that you mwc68 do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit. How can i do this you ask? Its simple, all those who teach the opposite of what the Holy Spirit teaches do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Here is the proof you are not a Christian mwc68.
Romans 3:9-12
[SUP]9 [/SUP]for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written, " THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
[SUP]12 [/SUP] ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
Mary was not righteous, Mary did not seek God, Mary became useless, and Mary never did good!
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Even Mary sinned and was a sinner!
The Holy Spirit says Mary was a sinner, you say Mary had no sin. This proves you mwc68 do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit which means you do not have Salvation either.
Therefore i can judge you because you are not a True Christian. I cannot judge True Christians because God said not to, but since you are not a Christian i can judge you all i want mwc68.
Dear brother KenAllan, I´m sorry, but am I wrong thinking than a Christian should not judge anyone? I also agree that the Catholic Church misleads in several ways, but to say that a man won´t be saved is too much, I´m sorry. Only God knows that, dear brother.
May the peace of the Lord be here, in C.C.
Those are not the saints. They are heavenly beings. And they do not pry for us, they offer up OUR prayers as incense to God.
well I find Elijah's assumption in Scripture. And it was witnessed. by someone who testified of it. Jesus was carried up into Heaven, And it is described in Scripture. And some witnessed it and wrote about it. Strange that the Scriptures know nothing of the assumption of Mary and no one witnessed it. Indeed no one knew of it for over 1000 years. Was she shy? LOL
well I find Elijah's assumption in Scripture. And it was witnessed. by someone who testified of it. Jesus was carried up into Heaven, And it is described in Scripture. And some witnessed it and wrote about it. Strange that the Scriptures know nothing of the assumption of Mary and no one witnessed it. Indeed no one knew of it for over 1000 years. Was she shy? LOL
And the way you speak of the Blessed Mary, a little. scripture you forgot, " all generations shall call me Blessed"I think we can at least agree she is a Christian and your treatment of her is terrible! I know i would not want my mom treated like this and I'm pretty sure Jesus doesn't either. You are a wannabe christian, since we are judging
You mean the so-called Assumption is Roman Catholic church teaching. But the Roman Catholic church is in secession from Christ's church precisely because it is in error. That was why it broke off from the true church of Christ in 8th century AD.
Gamaliel was assumed into Heaven without dying and was sinless. Barabbas was assumed into Heaven without dying and was sinless. And so were thousands of others. How do I know? The Scripture doesn't say otherwise.
Do you believe that they were? You would be a fool to do so on those grounds. And only a fool would believe that Mary was assumed into Heaven on those grounds if they had no contemporary evidence.
It is not reasonable to expect people to prove a negative. But it is absolutely reasonable to require a person who makes a positive claim to PROVE that claim, and not just say Big Daddy Pope says so. So PROVE IT or withdraw..
Gamaliel was assumed into Heaven without dying and was sinless. Barabbas was assumed into Heaven without dying and was sinless. And so were thousands of others. How do I know? The Scripture doesn't say otherwise.
Do you believe that they were? You would be a fool to do so on those grounds. And only a fool would believe that Mary was assumed into Heaven on those grounds if they had no contemporary evidence.
It is not reasonable to expect people to prove a negative. But it is absolutely reasonable to require a person who makes a positive claim to PROVE that claim, and not just say Big Daddy Pope says so. So PROVE IT or withdraw..
But we do call her blessed for what she did in bearing the Messiah. Just as Jesus called many blessed for being what is described in Matt 5.3-10. What they did they did because they had been blessed and thus transformed spiritually. But she and they were all sinners. And Jesus certainly did not call her blessed later on. It is not terrible to accept that she was a sinner like everyone else. It is scriptural. Mary is not Jesus Christ's mom now. She is one of the sinners whom He has redeemed.
You already know where i stand. The proof i have is church teaching from , sacred scripture, sacred tradition,and the magistrate. That is my proof. It's. up to you to prove these wrong since you all. have brought them into question. So far you haven't proven anything and have now sentenced me to Hell. I know I am not in heresy and all this private interpreting and judging is a clear sign to me that none of you have any idea what you are trying,poorly,to disprove!
[SUP]
8[/SUP]And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
1. where in this verse say pray for us? It is pray but didn't say for us.
2. If mary assumed to heaven why not in the bible. Elijah assumed and in the bible.
Let me remind you my analogy.
when Obama bought a dog for his daughter, it it in the headline.
I bought an elephant for my son and not even in the local news.
Why?
Because obama is important person, and I am ordinary person.
Mary has higher status than Elijah. If she assumed to heaven, must be in the bible headline.
8[/SUP]And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
1. where in this verse say pray for us? It is pray but didn't say for us.
2. If mary assumed to heaven why not in the bible. Elijah assumed and in the bible.
Let me remind you my analogy.
when Obama bought a dog for his daughter, it it in the headline.
I bought an elephant for my son and not even in the local news.
Why?
Because obama is important person, and I am ordinary person.
Mary has higher status than Elijah. If she assumed to heaven, must be in the bible headline.
Good lets have your proof for the Assumption of Mary from Scripture and early church history before say 500 AD.
There is not the slightest evidence of 'sacred tradition.' It was an invention of the Roman Catholic church in the last 200 years.
So your proof fails. But we have PROVED from Scripture that Mary sinned during her lifetime and that she herself proved it by calling on God as her Saviour. Why don't you deal with those questions? Because like the proverbial ostrich you stick your head in the sand.
The silence of 1800 years proves you wrong. But in fact you and your church have made the statements. It is in fact incumbent on you to prove them. Scripture PROVES that Mary was a sinner, and for a time at least disapproved of by Jesus..
We have proved from Scripture that Mary was a sinner. And she admitted it herself when she called on 'God my Saviour'.
I don't remember sentencing you to Hell LOL that's not my job. I just point out to you that you hold heretical beliefs.
You may remember that you promised to give me Scriptural proof for a number of your heresies. I will list them again to make it easy for you. You've had over a week so you should not find it difficult LOL (listens for excuses):
growth of RC doctrine (some dates are approximate)
1 . Prayers for the dead . …………-------------------……300 A.D.
2. Making the sign of the cross ………………………… …300 A.D.
3. Veneration of angels & dead saints …………---------…….375 A.D.
4. Use of images in worship………………………………… . 375 A.D.
5. The Mass as a daily celebration……………………………… 394 A.D.
6 Beginning of the exaltation of Mary; the term, "Mother of God" applied a Council of Ephesus……………. .----------------------------------------- 431 A.D.
7 Extreme Unction (Last Rites)……………………………… ..526 A.D.
8. Doctrine of Purgatory-Gregory 1…………………………… .593 A.D..
9. Prayers to Mary & dead saints ……………………………… .600 A.D.
10. Worship of cross, images & relics ……………………… … 786 A.D.
11 Canonization of dead saints ………………………………… ..995 A.D.
12. Celibacy of priesthood …………………………………… …1079 A.D.
13. The Rosary ……………………………………………… … 1090 A.D.
14. Indulgences ……………………………………………… …..1190 A.D.
15. Transubstantiation-Innocent III …………………………… 1215 A.D.
16. Auricular Confession of sins to a priest …………………… 1215 A.D.
17. Adoration of the wafer (Host)…………………………… .. 1220 A.D.
18. Cup forbidden to the people at communion …………………..1414 A.D.
19. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma……………………………..1439 A.D.
20. The doctrine of the Seven Sacraments confirmed …………….1439 A.D.
21 Tradition declared of equal authority with Bible by Council of Trent…………………………………………----------------… 1545 A.D.
22. Apocryphal books added to Bible ………------------……….1546 A.D.
23. Immaculate Conception of Mary……………………………….1854 A.D.
24, Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals,proclaimed by the Vatican Council ……………… 1870 A.D.
25. Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death) ……………………………-----------------------------------……1950 A.D.
26. Mary proclaimed Mother of the Church……………………… 1965 A.D.
There is not the slightest evidence of 'sacred tradition.' It was an invention of the Roman Catholic church in the last 200 years.
So your proof fails. But we have PROVED from Scripture that Mary sinned during her lifetime and that she herself proved it by calling on God as her Saviour. Why don't you deal with those questions? Because like the proverbial ostrich you stick your head in the sand.
The silence of 1800 years proves you wrong. But in fact you and your church have made the statements. It is in fact incumbent on you to prove them. Scripture PROVES that Mary was a sinner, and for a time at least disapproved of by Jesus..
We have proved from Scripture that Mary was a sinner. And she admitted it herself when she called on 'God my Saviour'.
I don't remember sentencing you to Hell LOL that's not my job. I just point out to you that you hold heretical beliefs.
You may remember that you promised to give me Scriptural proof for a number of your heresies. I will list them again to make it easy for you. You've had over a week so you should not find it difficult LOL (listens for excuses):
growth of RC doctrine (some dates are approximate)
1 . Prayers for the dead . …………-------------------……300 A.D.
2. Making the sign of the cross ………………………… …300 A.D.
3. Veneration of angels & dead saints …………---------…….375 A.D.
4. Use of images in worship………………………………… . 375 A.D.
5. The Mass as a daily celebration……………………………… 394 A.D.
6 Beginning of the exaltation of Mary; the term, "Mother of God" applied a Council of Ephesus……………. .----------------------------------------- 431 A.D.
7 Extreme Unction (Last Rites)……………………………… ..526 A.D.
8. Doctrine of Purgatory-Gregory 1…………………………… .593 A.D..
9. Prayers to Mary & dead saints ……………………………… .600 A.D.
10. Worship of cross, images & relics ……………………… … 786 A.D.
11 Canonization of dead saints ………………………………… ..995 A.D.
12. Celibacy of priesthood …………………………………… …1079 A.D.
13. The Rosary ……………………………………………… … 1090 A.D.
14. Indulgences ……………………………………………… …..1190 A.D.
15. Transubstantiation-Innocent III …………………………… 1215 A.D.
16. Auricular Confession of sins to a priest …………………… 1215 A.D.
17. Adoration of the wafer (Host)…………………………… .. 1220 A.D.
18. Cup forbidden to the people at communion …………………..1414 A.D.
19. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma……………………………..1439 A.D.
20. The doctrine of the Seven Sacraments confirmed …………….1439 A.D.
21 Tradition declared of equal authority with Bible by Council of Trent…………………………………………----------------… 1545 A.D.
22. Apocryphal books added to Bible ………------------……….1546 A.D.
23. Immaculate Conception of Mary……………………………….1854 A.D.
24, Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals,proclaimed by the Vatican Council ……………… 1870 A.D.
25. Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death) ……………………………-----------------------------------……1950 A.D.
26. Mary proclaimed Mother of the Church……………………… 1965 A.D.
I refuse to answer you with scripture since your pavlovian response is I take it out of context. Can't play when that is your only response . You know and i have not hidden how I get my information.The out of context thing is what you do since you freely admit you have no authority and willy nilly search the scriptures to fit your own agenda
Originally Posted by valiant
- Good lets have your proof for the Assumption of Mary from Scripture and early church history before say 500 AD.
There is not the slightest evidence of 'sacred tradition.' It was an invention of the Roman Catholic church in the last 200 years.
So your proof fails. But we have PROVED from Scripture that Mary sinned during her lifetime and that she herself proved it by calling on God as her Saviour. Why don't you deal with those questions? Because like the proverbial ostrich you stick your head in the sand.
The silence of 1800 years proves you wrong. But in fact you and your church have made the statements. It is in fact incumbent on you to prove them. Scripture PROVES that Mary was a sinner, and for a time at least disapproved of by Jesus..
We have proved from Scripture that Mary was a sinner. And she admitted it herself when she called on 'God my Saviour'.
I don't remember sentencing you to Hell LOL that's not my job. I just point out to you that you hold heretical beliefs.
You may remember that you promised to give me Scriptural proof for a number of your heresies. I will list them again to make it easy for you. You've had over a week so you should not find it difficult LOL (listens for excuses):
growth of RC doctrine (some dates are approximate)
1 . Prayers for the dead . …………-------------------……300 A.D.
2. Making the sign of the cross ………………………… …300 A.D.
3. Veneration of angels & dead saints …………---------…….375 A.D.
4. Use of images in worship………………………………… . 375 A.D.
5. The Mass as a daily celebration……………………………… 394 A.D.
6 Beginning of the exaltation of Mary; the term, "Mother of God" applied a Council of Ephesus……………. .----------------------------------------- 431 A.D.
7 Extreme Unction (Last Rites)……………………………… ..526 A.D.
8. Doctrine of Purgatory-Gregory 1…………………………… .593 A.D..
9. Prayers to Mary & dead saints ……………………………… .600 A.D.
10. Worship of cross, images & relics ……………………… … 786 A.D.
11 Canonization of dead saints ………………………………… ..995 A.D.
12. Celibacy of priesthood …………………………………… …1079 A.D.
13. The Rosary …………………………………………
LOL you have no information. Just false assertions. You PROMISED last week to provide Scripture proof for the above heresies. Now do so or admit you are a humbug. What you mean is you have no Scriptures to support these heretical practises. YOU HAVE JUST PROVED YOURSELF A HERETIC AS EVERYONE CAN SEE.
The facts below prove that it is not apostolic(THE TEACHING OF APOSTLE) I don't think apostle still around in the year 300 +
Why catholic always lie and said the only apostolic church?
Why catholic always lie and said the only apostolic church?
- growth of RC doctrine (some dates are approximate)
1 . Prayers for the dead . …………-------------------……300 A.D.
2. Making the sign of the cross ………………………… …300 A.D.
3. Veneration of angels & dead saints …………---------…….375 A.D.
4. Use of images in worship………………………………… . 375 A.D.
5. The Mass as a daily celebration……………………………… 394 A.D.
6 Beginning of the exaltation of Mary; the term, "Mother of God" applied a Council of Ephesus……………. .----------------------------------------- 431 A.D.
7 Extreme Unction (Last Rites)……………………………… ..526 A.D.
8. Doctrine of Purgatory-Gregory 1…………………………… .593 A.D..
9. Prayers to Mary & dead saints ……………………………… .600 A.D.
10. Worship of cross, images & relics ……………………… … 786 A.D.
11 Canonization of dead saints ………………………………… ..995 A.D.
12. Celibacy of priesthood …………………………………… …1079 A.D.
13. The Rosary …………………………………………
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