When does the rapture occur?

[SilverFanng]

32 Remember Lot's wife.

Ok,lets do.

Here is this group leaving just prior to judgement.(pretrib rapture maybe?)

Here is one who is not looking to the future and place where God is taking his pple,but is wanting to go back and experience ,and be in God's judgement. (postribbers....yikes!)

Dude. The reason she looked back was because she longed for her old way of life. Her old nature. It is a metaphor created by God stating that any who reject God's salvation (Christ's death and resurrection) are condemned to death. He's saying to be ready and accept redemption before it's too late.

Something is missing, but I know it isn't a reference to rapture. I am just not smart enough yet to have the answer.

 

[SilverFanng]

ever so slowly you reveal your cards. Postrib

You should just ask. I am a no-trib believer. We will be needed on earth during the great tribulation more than ever before. Why would God give us the protection of his seal then pull us away from where we are needed.

 

[SilverFanng]

Gary,

You hold a common belief that the 7 churches represent seven eras of church history. Why do you think that?

Have you considered that the 7 churches were just 7 churches that John knew personally. Many of them were enduring hardship and some needed correcting. All needed encouragement. I find nothing to suggest that the purpose of writing to them had some huge significance to churches 2000 years later although lessons certain apply. John was sharing in their suffering and gave them comfort.

Rather than representing different church eras, have you considered that the spirits of all 7 churches are still present in the world today? If not, why not?

But remember that it was Christ who told him to write the letters to those specific churches, even telling him what to write. Not saying you are wrong. Just clarifyimg.

 

[popeye]

Ah yes, the quintessential cornerstone verse of the pretribulationalist. Odd, considering no one can agree upon a single meaning of this passage. I, for example, believe Christ doesn't mean they will be supernaturally taken but that it is a reference to the amount of death ahead. Taken simply means killed/died. Regardless of which one is the sinner and which one the redeemed.

Context??


We now are throwing out context?

34 I tell you, in that night

What night?

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

it goes back to the setting with Abraham and lot.

DEFINETLY A BLOW TO POSTRIB.

 

[PlainWord]

Ah yes, the quintessential cornerstone verse of the pretribulationalist. Odd, considering no one can agree upon a single meaning of this passage. I, for example, believe Christ doesn't mean they will be supernaturally taken but that it is a reference to the amount of death ahead. Taken simply means killed/died. Regardless of which one is the sinner and which one the redeemed.

See Mat 13. The taken are the wicked. They are swept away like in Noah's Flood. The righteous are "gathered" into His "barn." Almost everyone gets this wrong.

[SUP]40 [/SUP]Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. [SUP]41 [/SUP]The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, [SUP]42 [/SUP]and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. [SUP]43 [/SUP]Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

This analogy is the same over and over again.

[SUP]37 [/SUP]But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, [SUP]39 [/SUP]and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. [SUP]40 [/SUP]Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. [SUP]41 [/SUP]Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.

It isn't the Tribulation. It's the Coming of the Son of Man (Christ). His angels remove the wicked (tares), leaving the righteous (wheat) to be gathered unto Him.

 

[popeye]

You should just ask. I am a no-trib believer. We will be needed on earth during the great tribulation more than ever before. Why would God give us the protection of his seal then pull us away from where we are needed.

Goes to the time of the gentiles fulfilled.

THAT IS WHY THERE IS NO PROTECTION WHATSOEVER TO THOSE LEFT BEHIND.

The AC is empowered to OVERCOME THE SAINTS

 

[popeye]

You should just ask. I am a no-trib believer. We will be needed on earth during the great tribulation more than ever before. Why would God give us the protection of his seal then pull us away from where we are needed.

We will be needed on earth during the great tribulation more than ever before

You literally pulled that from the sky.

It says "power given to AC to overcome the saints"
then........
".......and they loved not their lives unto death"
And
"......blessed are they that die from this point foreward"

 

[PlainWord]

But remember that it was Christ who told him to write the letters to those specific churches, even telling him what to write. Not saying you are wrong. Just clarifyimg.

Rev 1: [SUP]9 [/SUP]I, John, bothyour brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ...

I agree... Christ told John what to write. In the introduction, John makes clear that he counts himself with them in their suffering. This implies that John's message was contemporary to them. John is giving them comfort:

[SUP]4 [/SUP]John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come...

But a message and blessing is promised for all who hear his words:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

That's my view anyway.

 

[popeye]

Dude. The reason she looked back was because she longed for her old way of life. Her old nature. It is a metaphor created by God stating that any who reject God's salvation (Christ's death and resurrection) are condemned to death. He's saying to be ready and accept redemption before it's too late.

Something is missing, but I know it isn't a reference to rapture. I am just not smart enough yet to have the answer.

None of those stories have one meaning. Most every truth is mutifaceted.

But you got it wrong.

She WAS ALREADY DELIVERED. ,As is a redeemed sinner now born again.

It was DURING HER WALK, that she looked back.

Pretribs are looking FORWARD NOW.
Postribs say "later,not now"(looking to stay behind)

 

[popeye]

Dude. The reason she looked back was because she longed for her old way of life. Her old nature. It is a metaphor created by God stating that any who reject God's salvation (Christ's death and resurrection) are condemned to death. He's saying to be ready and accept redemption before it's too late.

Something is missing, but I know it isn't a reference to rapture. I am just not smart enough yet to have the answer.

More like you NEED something to be missing.

The rapture is the groom gathering the bride.

Abraham gathers Lot.

Comical how you postribbs stumble and fall all over a no brainer.

 

[popeye]

There is a postrib argument that is way,way better than the novice stuff I am shooting down.


But I won't tell you what it is. LOL

 

[Sirk]

Everytime I see this thread I wanna say...after super bowl DCLXVI.

 

[Pumicestone]

Originally Posted by Pumicestone
So many Christians - so many different opinions. And no doubt all sincere and well thought-out.

What a pity the "message' could not have been made crystal clear and unambiguous.

Be that as it may, I believe there is only one truth and it is this pursuit of truth that brings us closer to God.
Thus, why he made it ambiguous in the first place.

Excellent, Fang !
He deliberately made the truth hard to find (?) but you were smart enough to find it.

What about the rest of us mere mortals ?

 

[GaryA]

Try?
Why not just read it?

Does this exist in your mind?:
"Abraham watched as sodom burned,knowing lot would be protected,then AFTER THE TRIBULATION ,Abe went in to the city and brought Lot and family out"

Are you somehow not able to read the simple,simple account?[/COLOR]

What I am saying is -- the "details" and "style" of the 'Sodom and Gomorrah' event do not directly apply to the Second Coming of Christ.

You are missing the "sense and tense" of the overall picture...

In 'post-trib' parlance -- Lot would have been abused and killed by the mob during the tribulation - after the tribulation, God's Wrath 'visits' the city...

You seem to think that Christian martyrs from "the tribulation period" are not part of the bride...?

 

[GaryA]

There is a postrib argument that is way,way better than the novice stuff I am shooting down.

"The only thing you are shooting is your own foot..."

 

[SilverFanng]

Ironic that you yourself omitted/ignored WHERE,'AFTER THE TRIB" THE ELECT are. In heaven? Does it say "IN HEAVEN"

HMMM,how'd they get there? Previous rapture maybe? pretrib rapture?

Dude. They died.

 

[SilverFanng]

Context??


We now are throwing out context?

34 I tell you, in that night

What night?

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

it goes back to the setting with Abraham and lot.

DEFINETLY A BLOW TO POSTRIB.

My mom has a saying. Hope for a pre-trib rapture but plan on a post-trib rapture. I am simply cutting out the first part in case it is a false hope. Do I know? No. Do you know? No. Any one who claims to know what will happen beyond a shadow of a doubt has either heard the audible voice of God tell him such things or he is a fool. I refuse to be a fool so I will be the first to say I know nothing with certainty. Hence my faith. But I will not misplace my faith. Where is your faith?

 

[SilverFanng]

You literally pulled that from the sky.

It says "power given to AC to overcome the saints"
then........
".......and they loved not their lives unto death"
And
"......blessed are they that die from this point foreward"

Let me ask, do you fear death? Personally, I look forward to it, just as Paul did. I can't wait to die. What about you?

 

[SilverFanng]

None of those stories have one meaning. Most every truth is mutifaceted.

But you got it wrong.

She WAS ALREADY DELIVERED. ,As is a redeemed sinner now born again.

It was DURING HER WALK, that she looked back.

Pretribs are looking FORWARD NOW.
Postribs say "later,not now"(looking to stay behind)

By your own word you believe God will damn those who are redeemed. This is a blatant lie. Only those "Christians" of the synagogue of satan are damned.

 

[SilverFanng]

More like you NEED something to be missing.

The rapture is the groom gathering the bride.

Abraham gathers Lot.

Comical how you postribbs stumble and fall all over a no brainer.

How can you call yourself a christian and laugh at the shortcomings of others? You white washed tomb! I may not be smart but I can discern an evil heart when I see one. Check yourself with God and empty your heart of the hate you harbor for that is enticing to Satan.