Catholic Heresy (for the record)
- Thread starter RoboOp
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nothing to say? I'm not an expert nor do i pretend to be. I have never experienced any of the foul lies yall have posted. And it is very wrong to say satan leads my church when your only resources are non catholic bigots. I have stated before that members of my church that i look up to are well respected men in my community. These men are smart and would not lead me in the wrong direction. What I've witnessed here over and over is self proclaimed experts that really have no clue about Catholics. Yeah, you are good at stating the regurgitaded bs that you are brainwashed with. That is your only defense and it is very poor at best. I've seen no proof that any of you know anything about Catholics except the lies you continue to promote. I am well aware of these lies and realize you aren't. Its why you ask the same silly questions over and over as if that means something
[h=3]This alone prove the fruit of this church. How people believe only member of this church save.
Killer is not the fruit of the Holy spirit.
Pope says sorry for sins of church | World news | The Guardian[/h]www.theguardian.com › World › Catholicism
The Guardian
Saving one of his most audacious initiatives for the twilight of his papacy, John Paul II yesterday attempted to purify the soul of the Roman Catholic church by making a sweeping apology for 2,000 years of violence, persecution and blunders.From the altar of St Peter's Basilica in Rome he led Catholicism into unchartered territory by seeking forgiveness for sins committed against Jews, heretics, women, Gypsies and native peoples.
Fighting through trembles and slurrings caused by Parkinson's disease, the Pope electrified ranks of cardinals and bishops by pleading for a future that would not repeat the mistakes. "Never again," he said.
Centuries of hate and rivalry could not recur in the third millennium. "We forgive and we ask forgiveness. We are asking pardon for the divisions among Christians, for the use of violence that some have committed in the service of truth, and for attitudes of mistrust and hostility assumed towards followers of other religions."
Plea for brotherhood
Defying warnings from some theologians that the unprecedented apology would undermine the church's authority, the 79-year-old pontiff asked God to forgive the persecution of the Jews. "We are deeply saddened by the behaviour of those who in the course of history have caused these children of yours to suffer, and asking your forgiveness we wish to commit ourselves to genuine brotherhood."
Wearing the purple vestments of lenten mourning, the Pope sought pardon for seven categories of sin: general sins; sins in the service of truth; sins against Christian unity; against the Jews; against respect for love, peace and cultures; against the dignity of women and minorities; and against human rights.
Ethnic groups had endured "contempt for their cultures and religious traditions". Women were "all too often humiliated and marginalised". Trust in wealth and power had obscured the church's responsibility to the poor and oppressed.
There was no reference to homosexuals, who had asked to be included for suffering theocratic violence. The Pope did not identify guilty individuals or name the crusades, the Inquisition or the Holocaust, but the references were clear.
Five Vatican cardinals and two bishops confessed sins on behalf of the church during the ceremony. Cardinal Edward Cassidy recalled the "sufferings of the people of Israel" asked divine pardon for the "sins committed by not a few [Catholics] against the people of the covenant".
'Warped' view
Several Jewish leaders praised the sermon as historic and significant but Israel's chief rabbi said he was deeply frustrated by the Pope's failure to mention the Holocaust, and described the service as "a severely warped view of history".
Rabbi Israel Meir Lau joined other Israelis in expressing hope that the pope had omitted acknowledging the church's passivity during the Holocaust only because he was planning a specific apology during next week's pilgrimage to the holy land.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the congregation of the doctrine of the faith, confessed to the sins of the congregation's predecessor, the Inquisition. "Even men of the church, in the name of faith and morals, have sometimes used methods not in keeping with the Gospel," he said.
Applause from the congregation greeted the Pope's arrival in the basilica. He kneeled before the Pieta, Michelangelo's statue of the dead Christ in the arms of his mother, before being wheeled to the altar. He leaned on his silver staff and it took several attempts for him to get out of his chair to kiss a crucifix. The Vatican no longer denies the Pope has Parkinson's disease. An operation to remove a tumour, several falls and an assassination attempt have left him hunched and stiff.
Seeking forgiveness has been a leitmotif of his papacy since his election in 1978. He has apologised for the crusades, the massacre of French Protestants, the trial of Galileo and anti-semitism.
Yesterday's apology was by far the most sweeping and an unprecedented act for the leader of a major religion. One of the highlights of this year's jubilee, or holy year, it was the result of four years' research by a panel of 28 theologians and scholars.
Disquiet that the apology was a beautiful gesture but a theological mistake bubbled to the surface last week.
Echoing widespread concern from liberal as well as conservative theologians, the Bishop of Como, Alessandro Maggiolini, said: "In whose name, exactly, is the holy father asking pardon? He is relying on a group of experts, but tomorrow another group of experts might come up with different examples."
Other churchmen said the gesture would be seen by Muslims as a sign of weakness and by secular enemies as a cue to launch further attacks.
The Pope's persistence in ramming through the initiative, despite resistance inside the Vatican, has doused claims that he has effectively retired and abandoned policy-making.
The document that provides the theological framework emphasises a distinction between the sins committed by the church's sons and daughters and the church itself, which remains holy and immaculate.
Speaking after the ceremony to the crowd in St Peter's Square, the Pope stressed he was seeking forgiveness not from those who had been wronged, but from God. "Only he can do that."
2,000 years of violence and persecution
The Crusades
Pope Urban II, anxious to assert Rome's authority in the east, sent a military expedition in 1095 to reconquer the holy land. The crusaders ravaged the countries they passed through and massacred the Muslim, Jewish and even Christian population of Jerusalem after capturing it in 1099. After 200 years of conflict Muslim armies drove them out for good, but the crusaders' symbol of the red cross remains provocative.
The Inquisition
The attempt to combat suspected apostates, Jews and Muslims at the time of the Reformation spawned tribunals in Europe and the new world that tortured and executed thousands. Ecclesiastical queasiness about flowing blood led to the use of racks, thumbscrews and red-hot metal instead of blades; 2,000 people were burned at the stake during the tenure of Spain's first grand inquisitor, Tomas de Torquemada.
The Holocaust
Pope Pius XII never publicly condemned the Nazis' persecution of Jews, even when they were being rounded up and deported from Rome. His silence is partly blamed for the failure of Germany's Catholics to resist Hitler. Anti-Jewish Catholic doctrines such as the claim that the Jews murdered Christ were said to have ideologically underpinned nazism. Vatican officials allegedly helped Nazis escape Europe after the war.
Killer is not the fruit of the Holy spirit.
Pope says sorry for sins of church | World news | The Guardian[/h]www.theguardian.com › World › Catholicism
The Guardian
Saving one of his most audacious initiatives for the twilight of his papacy, John Paul II yesterday attempted to purify the soul of the Roman Catholic church by making a sweeping apology for 2,000 years of violence, persecution and blunders.From the altar of St Peter's Basilica in Rome he led Catholicism into unchartered territory by seeking forgiveness for sins committed against Jews, heretics, women, Gypsies and native peoples.
Fighting through trembles and slurrings caused by Parkinson's disease, the Pope electrified ranks of cardinals and bishops by pleading for a future that would not repeat the mistakes. "Never again," he said.
Centuries of hate and rivalry could not recur in the third millennium. "We forgive and we ask forgiveness. We are asking pardon for the divisions among Christians, for the use of violence that some have committed in the service of truth, and for attitudes of mistrust and hostility assumed towards followers of other religions."
Plea for brotherhood
Defying warnings from some theologians that the unprecedented apology would undermine the church's authority, the 79-year-old pontiff asked God to forgive the persecution of the Jews. "We are deeply saddened by the behaviour of those who in the course of history have caused these children of yours to suffer, and asking your forgiveness we wish to commit ourselves to genuine brotherhood."
Wearing the purple vestments of lenten mourning, the Pope sought pardon for seven categories of sin: general sins; sins in the service of truth; sins against Christian unity; against the Jews; against respect for love, peace and cultures; against the dignity of women and minorities; and against human rights.
Ethnic groups had endured "contempt for their cultures and religious traditions". Women were "all too often humiliated and marginalised". Trust in wealth and power had obscured the church's responsibility to the poor and oppressed.
There was no reference to homosexuals, who had asked to be included for suffering theocratic violence. The Pope did not identify guilty individuals or name the crusades, the Inquisition or the Holocaust, but the references were clear.
Five Vatican cardinals and two bishops confessed sins on behalf of the church during the ceremony. Cardinal Edward Cassidy recalled the "sufferings of the people of Israel" asked divine pardon for the "sins committed by not a few [Catholics] against the people of the covenant".
'Warped' view
Several Jewish leaders praised the sermon as historic and significant but Israel's chief rabbi said he was deeply frustrated by the Pope's failure to mention the Holocaust, and described the service as "a severely warped view of history".
Rabbi Israel Meir Lau joined other Israelis in expressing hope that the pope had omitted acknowledging the church's passivity during the Holocaust only because he was planning a specific apology during next week's pilgrimage to the holy land.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the congregation of the doctrine of the faith, confessed to the sins of the congregation's predecessor, the Inquisition. "Even men of the church, in the name of faith and morals, have sometimes used methods not in keeping with the Gospel," he said.
Applause from the congregation greeted the Pope's arrival in the basilica. He kneeled before the Pieta, Michelangelo's statue of the dead Christ in the arms of his mother, before being wheeled to the altar. He leaned on his silver staff and it took several attempts for him to get out of his chair to kiss a crucifix. The Vatican no longer denies the Pope has Parkinson's disease. An operation to remove a tumour, several falls and an assassination attempt have left him hunched and stiff.
Seeking forgiveness has been a leitmotif of his papacy since his election in 1978. He has apologised for the crusades, the massacre of French Protestants, the trial of Galileo and anti-semitism.
Yesterday's apology was by far the most sweeping and an unprecedented act for the leader of a major religion. One of the highlights of this year's jubilee, or holy year, it was the result of four years' research by a panel of 28 theologians and scholars.
Disquiet that the apology was a beautiful gesture but a theological mistake bubbled to the surface last week.
Echoing widespread concern from liberal as well as conservative theologians, the Bishop of Como, Alessandro Maggiolini, said: "In whose name, exactly, is the holy father asking pardon? He is relying on a group of experts, but tomorrow another group of experts might come up with different examples."
Other churchmen said the gesture would be seen by Muslims as a sign of weakness and by secular enemies as a cue to launch further attacks.
The Pope's persistence in ramming through the initiative, despite resistance inside the Vatican, has doused claims that he has effectively retired and abandoned policy-making.
The document that provides the theological framework emphasises a distinction between the sins committed by the church's sons and daughters and the church itself, which remains holy and immaculate.
Speaking after the ceremony to the crowd in St Peter's Square, the Pope stressed he was seeking forgiveness not from those who had been wronged, but from God. "Only he can do that."
2,000 years of violence and persecution
The Crusades
Pope Urban II, anxious to assert Rome's authority in the east, sent a military expedition in 1095 to reconquer the holy land. The crusaders ravaged the countries they passed through and massacred the Muslim, Jewish and even Christian population of Jerusalem after capturing it in 1099. After 200 years of conflict Muslim armies drove them out for good, but the crusaders' symbol of the red cross remains provocative.
The Inquisition
The attempt to combat suspected apostates, Jews and Muslims at the time of the Reformation spawned tribunals in Europe and the new world that tortured and executed thousands. Ecclesiastical queasiness about flowing blood led to the use of racks, thumbscrews and red-hot metal instead of blades; 2,000 people were burned at the stake during the tenure of Spain's first grand inquisitor, Tomas de Torquemada.
The Holocaust
Pope Pius XII never publicly condemned the Nazis' persecution of Jews, even when they were being rounded up and deported from Rome. His silence is partly blamed for the failure of Germany's Catholics to resist Hitler. Anti-Jewish Catholic doctrines such as the claim that the Jews murdered Christ were said to have ideologically underpinned nazism. Vatican officials allegedly helped Nazis escape Europe after the war.
The secret you never free from the Vatican lying is you not honest brother.
When I said Catholic teach we might become God, you said it is lie source.
When I show you it is from Vatican official website, you change your mine, it mean not honest.
If you said the source lie, no matter who, you have to said lie.
Pope apology is in the news paper. witnessed by thousands or even millions of TV viewers and reporter, and you said BS.
Do you accused your own Pope BS,
I expect you not going to answered this question because you don't want to caught in act of dishonesty.
It may hurt your felling, but in the long run I hope it will help you to be honest and free from the Vatican fraud.
When I said Catholic teach we might become God, you said it is lie source.
When I show you it is from Vatican official website, you change your mine, it mean not honest.
If you said the source lie, no matter who, you have to said lie.
Pope apology is in the news paper. witnessed by thousands or even millions of TV viewers and reporter, and you said BS.
Do you accused your own Pope BS,
I expect you not going to answered this question because you don't want to caught in act of dishonesty.
It may hurt your felling, but in the long run I hope it will help you to be honest and free from the Vatican fraud.
simply chose Scripture. don't trust man.
quote from other thread/ history of the false church/ >>
When Constantine made his decree in a.d. 325 enforcing Sunday observance in the Roman Empire, a tribulation period began. Those saints who remained faithful to God’s Sabbath command were forced to flee into hiding for fear of their lives. Persecution against these people set in almost immediately.
As dissension grew, those who were reading the Scriptures for themselves began to be persecuted. The author of History of the Christian Church continued, “They were called Waldensians, as if that were a hard name. Force was applied to them. They were routed; their versions were burnt, so far as possible; their opinions rooted out. The priests of Metz breathed freely again, and went on in their old ways of ignorance, idleness and vicious selfishness. Like cases seem to have occurred at Auxerre, and various towns in France, until the Council of Toulouse, in 1229, forbade the laity to possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in any language .…”
That’s history. A great [apostate/heresy] church actually forbade people to read the Bible. Throughout history,
this church has spoken “great things.”
In any doctrinal controversy, we must believe the Bible, not men!
The followers of Peter Waldo were persecuted by the Roman Empire.
The cause behind [(the apostasy/ heresy)] it was the Roman Church.
quote from other thread/ history of the false church/ >>
When Constantine made his decree in a.d. 325 enforcing Sunday observance in the Roman Empire, a tribulation period began. Those saints who remained faithful to God’s Sabbath command were forced to flee into hiding for fear of their lives. Persecution against these people set in almost immediately.
As dissension grew, those who were reading the Scriptures for themselves began to be persecuted. The author of History of the Christian Church continued, “They were called Waldensians, as if that were a hard name. Force was applied to them. They were routed; their versions were burnt, so far as possible; their opinions rooted out. The priests of Metz breathed freely again, and went on in their old ways of ignorance, idleness and vicious selfishness. Like cases seem to have occurred at Auxerre, and various towns in France, until the Council of Toulouse, in 1229, forbade the laity to possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in any language .…”
That’s history. A great [apostate/heresy] church actually forbade people to read the Bible. Throughout history,
this church has spoken “great things.”
In any doctrinal controversy, we must believe the Bible, not men!
The followers of Peter Waldo were persecuted by the Roman Empire.
The cause behind [(the apostasy/ heresy)] it was the Roman Church.
But scripture does elude to having an element of structure. I do agree that yes, once you start worshiping men that's heresy. But scripture is full of passages pertaining to having teachers and guidance, even bishops. 1 Timothy 3:2 - A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Seems evident by scripture alone, if you don't have a bishop your in heresy. Who is your Bishop?
Seems evident by scripture alone, if you don't have a bishop your in heresy. Who is your Bishop?
In New Testament days each church had a number of episkopoi (Phil 1.2). The word means overseer. Each church would have its quota. They were the teachers in the churches similar to ministers today. So EVERY church has a bishop or two no matter what their title. However not to have an overseer does not signify heresy. Heresy is to do with views about God and Jesus Christ. What it signifies is the need for each church to appoint godly leaders.
It has nothing to do with diocesan bishops which are unscriptural.
It has nothing to do with diocesan bishops which are unscriptural.
Ephesians Chapter 4
[SUP]10[/SUP] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
[SUP]11[/SUP] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[SUP]12[/SUP] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Do you have a prophet in your church?
Did he prophecy every week?
[SUP]10[/SUP] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
[SUP]11[/SUP] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[SUP]12[/SUP] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Do you have a prophet in your church?
Did he prophecy every week?