stay a virgin until marriage .

[Misty77]

Right, so then your argument is that the one who has sinned and "gets back" had achieved more than the one who has not.

So the one who robs banks, goes to prison, and then doesn't rob banks has achieved more than the person who never robbed a bank and lived as an upright citizen.

Or the child-abusing parent who stops and treats the grandkids well has achieved more than the person who never beat their children to begin with.

etc.

Of course, it would have been much better to have never made sinful choices. But we all sin and bear the consequences, even if we are forgiven from the condemnation. Is it better to walk when you are healthy or wounded? Is it simpler to walk a straight path or to dig out of a pit (even with God's help)? It is a much easier life to choose righteousness even with temptation than it is to choose righteousness while bearing the scars of sin. It's simply logic.

That's why God doesn't want us to sin in the first place. If we could sin and miraculously be consequence free afterward, then there wouldn't be such a plea for righteousness. There is forgiveness and redemption and hope for a renewed life, but it would have been better to never have left the path of righteousness in the first place.

 

[Faithful_Fay]

It's not just the drama of it. Think of it this way: Virginity is the default setting for all humans, and it is admirable for those who remain so for years--though for some it has more to do with lack of confidence or opportunity than strength of character. Yes, it takes some work to maintain it; but it is remaining on the ground level.

Having had sexual experience, you know what you like and how you like it. You have very specific memories and there is no longer that hesitation of a boundary that has never been crossed. To remain celibate afterward is like trying to dig yourself out of a pit: you've got a harder, steeper climb to ground-level than one who has never fallen into the pit. It simply takes more work to get back to square one than to have never left in the first place.

Virginity has more to do with lack of confidence or opportunity than strength of character? Way to discount the hard work it takes to abstain. If I we're to make the equivalent statement about those who hadn't abstained, it would be judgemental and offensive. I don't understand taking away from one person's walk with God in order to congratulate another's. I'm sure that isn't your intention, but the sentiment shines through in statements like the above.

If virginity were the default setting, I would think more couples would be virgins their wedding night, but alas, it isn't the norm any longer. From my experience, especially being an older waiter, there is a whole lot of ridiculing and assumptions for virgins. That's not to say everyone who abstains doesn't face their own challenges, but it's still a choice to wait on God.

Whatever path any person might have taken, the choice to abstain until marriage is an awesome way to honor God. Virgin or not, it's a wonderful challenge.

 

[jamie26301]

Virginity has more to do with lack of confidence or opportunity than strength of character? Way to discount the hard work it takes to abstain. If I we're to make the equivalent statement about those who hadn't abstained, it would be judgemental and offensive. I don't understand taking away from one person's walk with God in order to congratulate another's. I'm sure that isn't your intention, but the sentiment shines through in statements like the above.

Of course it's hard work, a lot of times. Sometimes it's because temptation doesn't come - that's where lack of confidence comes in, no one asks you out.

I - and everyone who has seen pictures say this - was a bombshell appearance wise in high school. My husband marvels that I wasn't frequently asked out. I wasn't. Maybe one or two times, and that's not even the "date" kind of going out but the status thing. I was never tempted, but one time, and that was an unusual circumstance. I didn't give in then and didn't want to, frankly.

But my point is I didn't carry myself a certain way. I didn't "speak the language" either. If you don't fit in to begin with, you don't need to try; not tempted to. Looks help, a lot - but if you're socially awkward, you'll likely have trouble even if you resemble Cindy Crawford.

So yes, lack of confidence and such CAN make keeping your virginity a heck of a lot easier than otherwise. If you're outgoing and the guys/girls are lining up, that would be more difficult.

 

[Misty77]

Virginity has more to do with lack of confidence or opportunity than strength of character? Way to discount the hard work it takes to abstain

If virginity were the default setting...

I said for SOME, not even most. I guess you missed that part where I said that it was admirable.

We are all born virgins so, yeah, it's the default setting.

Virginity is not an achievement in and of itself. It's defined by what you haven't done, not by what you have done. I know a lot "virgins" and "celibate" people who can only claim it as a very minor technicality. A few millimeters one way or the other are all that they are clinging to, but that's really beside the point.

In conclusion, remaining or becoming chaste through the power of God is a good thing. Having a past does not make you any less of a person; being a virgin doesn't make you more valuable/loved/worthy than people who don't have that status for whatever reason. Living without regrets or consequences is generally easier and preferred. Both paths are difficult, but success or forgiveness is possible.

I feel that I cannot be any more clear.

 

[PoetMary]

Of course it's hard work, a lot of times. Sometimes it's because temptation doesn't come - that's where lack of confidence comes in, no one asks you out.

I - and everyone who has seen pictures say this - was a bombshell appearance wise in high school. My husband marvels that I wasn't frequently asked out. I wasn't. Maybe one or two times, and that's not even the "date" kind of going out but the status thing. I was never tempted, but one time, and that was an unusual circumstance. I didn't give in then and didn't want to, frankly.

But my point is I didn't carry myself a certain way. I didn't "speak the language" either. If you don't fit in to begin with, you don't need to try; not tempted to. Looks help, a lot - but if you're socially awkward, you'll likely have trouble even if you resemble Cindy Crawford.

So yes, lack of confidence and such CAN make keeping your virginity a heck of a lot easier than otherwise. If you're outgoing and the guys/girls are lining up, that would be more difficult.

Again, this just seems like dangerously false thinking to me. (And I'm not sure it's actually backed up with fact). Consider this...on that bell curve that measures "physical attractiveness" most of us land somewhere in the huge "average" area. Additionally, nearly 50% of the population is introverted. So, there are a whole lot of people having sex that shouldn't easily be able to have sex according to these parameters.

The idea is that "lack of confidence" makes it easier to maintain sexual purity. However, there are many, many insecure men and women who engage sexually....a lot sometimes...as a way of FALSELY building confidence. Therapists offices are full of people who deal with their lack of confidence by getting into unwise sexual entanglements.

We don't see this kind of thinking related to any other sin. No one says that someone was able to honor his father and mother because he lacked the confidence to rebel against them. People don't imply that the reason you've never murdered anyone was because you just didn't have the chutzpah to kill them.

This is an argument ONLY applied to the issue of sexual purity and SPECIFICALLY implied to virgins. Which is both illogical, and unfair.

It's a kind of spiritually underhanded way of deriding others. "Yeah...it's good that you're a virgin, but SOME people are virgins because they're ugly/awkward/introverted, etc." (In an age where there are various hook-up apps available for a smart phone, the only requirement to having an active sex life is availability). It's also a subtle kind of peer pressure. We all know that being a virgin at marriage is outside the norm culturally, but it's also well outside of the norm in churches. Why must we subtly shame people who have decided to maintain their virginity? Why make them feel like outsiders amongst the Body of Christ?

This, btw, is also a manifestation of the vast majority of Christians entering marriage as non-virgins. (100 years ago when most people were virgins at marriage, people didn't talk this way about virginity). It's a sneaky way of people trying to rationalize their own feelings of guilt. It's also a way of back-handedly bragging about something that they (outwardly at least) believe to be sinful. They'll say, "sex before marriage is wrong," but then imply that people who maintain virginity "have it easy," or are "lacking" in some way. By default, they get to be the person who "struggles more" or who was pretty/social/popular enough to have sex outside of marriage.

Let's make a decision. Is virtue a good thing or not? If we decide to say "good," then let's actually treat it with the respect it deserves. Let's not pretend that it's "easier" to be virtuous. Let's not pretend that the suffering of pretty/popular/extroverted people is greater because so many people want to sex them up. Let's not value the stories of people who've messed up and recovered more than the stories of the people who resisted the temptation to mess up.

 

[Faithful_Fay]

Of course it's hard work, a lot of times. Sometimes it's because temptation doesn't come - that's where lack of confidence comes in, no one asks you out.

I - and everyone who has seen pictures say this - was a bombshell appearance wise in high school. My husband marvels that I wasn't frequently asked out. I wasn't. Maybe one or two times, and that's not even the "date" kind of going out but the status thing. I was never tempted, but one time, and that was an unusual circumstance. I didn't give in then and didn't want to, frankly.

But my point is I didn't carry myself a certain way. I didn't "speak the language" either. If you don't fit in to begin with, you don't need to try; not tempted to. Looks help, a lot - but if you're socially awkward, you'll likely have trouble even if you resemble Cindy Crawford.

So yes, lack of confidence and such CAN make keeping your virginity a heck of a lot easier than otherwise. If you're outgoing and the guys/girls are lining up, that would be more difficult.

I'm not sure that I'm understanding what you're saying. I would never deny that being outside the norm, ie socially awkward, doesn't make for lesser opportunities to engage with others if you are so inclined. Emphasis on inclined. I have a problem with equating virgins succeeding, especially those of us who chose to wait as part of faith, with lack of temptation or opportunity. That's when I hear socially awkward, lack or confidence, and so on.

I understand and that we draw our conclusions based on our own experiences. I know what you mean about finding it difficult to fit in. I can share my experience. I'm not socially awkward, I have normal-ish confidence, and plenty of opportunities to go out with guys, but I don't because I am figuring out my path with God. I'm 27 and live in between 2 cities so plenty of interactions with those who share my beliefs and more with those who don't. I don't think I'm a knockout, but I know that I get asked out, checked out or whatever you call it. (Ps, I don't know of any way to say you're okay appearance-wise without sounding awkward )

I know both beautiful charismatic friends who've made it to marriage virgins, and socially awkward friends who did not. I can understand your perspective, but my thought has always been honoring God is always a choice and a path, and each person has their own difficulty.

 

[jamie26301]

I'm not sure that I'm understanding what you're saying. I would never deny that being outside the norm, ie socially awkward, doesn't make for lesser opportunities to engage with others if you are so inclined. Emphasis on inclined. I have a problem with equating virgins succeeding, especially those of us who chose to wait as part of faith, with lack of temptation or opportunity. That's when I hear socially awkward, lack or confidence, and so on.

That was never the point, that "ALL virgins" succeed because of that. We find it a little more admirable to remain chaste under pressure than never being tested. No one is saying any saint is more holy than the other.

On judgment day we will not receive ANY distinction whatsoever from each other in reward? Then why even have a judgment and just usher us into heaven? We are to judge each other in the church, which I think that means more than rebuke. Honoring the faithful is a tradition in most churches. By this reasoning, why should any awards for dedication, being a long time active member, and such be bestowed? We don't want those who have been in the church just as long but didn't participate to feel bad about their minimal effort.

I understand and that we draw our conclusions based on our own experiences. I know what you mean about finding it difficult to fit in. I can share my experience. I'm not socially awkward, I have normal-ish confidence, and plenty of opportunities to go out with guys, but I don't because I am figuring out my path with God. I'm 27 and live in between 2 cities so plenty of interactions with those who share my beliefs and more with those who don't. I don't think I'm a knockout, but I know that I get asked out, checked out or whatever you call it. (Ps, I don't know of any way to say you're okay appearance-wise without sounding awkward )

Well, thanks for sharing. So, do you turn down all requests on the condition of waiting? If I may ask?

I know both beautiful charismatic friends who've made it to marriage virgins, and socially awkward friends who did not.

Yes, to answer another post, people do fall into sexual sin because of insecurity - I believe I did, honestly. And another sin that could be attributed to doing because of lack of confidence is drinking to fit in, and becoming acholoic. Taking unhealthy steroids that's against rules in sport competitions for lacking confidence on one's own ability. There's more than just sex, I think PoetMary.

And honestly Poet, one must be convinced in their own hearts. And we don't have statistics that I'm aware of where the church did a census of who was a virgin and not married. If you did fall into sin, which I imagine many did, it would be utter folly to proclaim it or confess it to anyone.

I believe there was a time in the church history where the sheet was checked for blood, to make sure the woman was a virgin - even though NOW we know, since we actually opened up to the subject, that the haymen is weak in some women and can break on its own through strenuous activity. But let's go back to the days when a woman could be stigmized, maybe even disciplined for not appearing to be a virgin though she was - because we shouldn't talk so openly about sex.

To not talk about sex is really bad, imo. Maybe we're not going about it the right way, but we don't want to treat it as we did in the past. There are LOTS of other variables here, including the political climate, women are financially more secure and so can easily leave, and there are no adversial laws concerning divorce (no fault).

 

[jamie26301]

Faithful, disregard that first sentence. sorry

 

[Faithful_Fay]

Well, thanks for sharing. So, do you turn down all requests on the condition of waiting? If I may ask?

I don't mind questions. I turned down the offers for a myriad of reasons, all depending on either my stage in life or the person. In high school, I turned down guys because I was newly a Christian and I wanted to concentrate on God. I turned down guys in college because of time. I worked full time, attended classes full time, and had internships. Right now, I'm not dating because I'm taking care of my mother, who is recovering from Cancer(which btw, Yay God, she's cancer free!)

I don't know if God will bring a person into my life who will make me want to say yes, or if I'm going to be single. Either way, I'm content to wait on God.

 

[jamie26301]

I can't find this clip right off, though I found the entire episode. The last page of this thread made me think of it. All in jest.

Taken from the manuscripts of Frasier:


Frasier: Yes, Niles. We'll be serving dinner just as soon as Roz gets here. I didn't think she should be alone this evening.
Daphne: How's she doing?
Frasier: Oh, O.K., I guess, considering she's decided to have the baby by herself.
Martin: Boy, things have really changed since my day. Back then, if a girl got in trouble, her family would send her away to relatives in another state, and if anybody asked, just lied and said she went to Europe. Then when she came back, they'd raise the baby as a little sister. Not like today — we had morals and values back then.

 

[zoii]

I am 27 and I am still a virgin. I have never had a boyfriend, never been kissed, never been on a date.
I have never been in a real bar. That might be because I don't drink alcohol at all. I only went to one school dance.
But no one ever asked me to dance. Though I have been to 3 formal dances. They are strict on modest dress only.
So all you girls out there who are for purity, modesty, and chastity. I won't to tell good job. Because the world we live in today. Makes it really hard to stay pure. When you stay pure you are not just doing it for your future husband. You are staying pure for yourself. So don't give in to temptation. Stand strong. Don't let others change who you are. let me tell you. I have had a lot of people think that I am weird. That there must be something wrong with me. Because I have never been on a date, never had boyfriend. They think I am weird because I choose to stay chaste. But you know what? I think they are just jealous. Because they wish that they were you.

You know it is never to late to start over. To become pure again. But once you become pure you need to stand strong, to stay pure. You have got to believe that you can do it. If you believe in your self you can do anything.

MysteryReader101

Hello again mystery. Im kinda sorry u have missed some of the things u mentioned... but u seem ok about it n am happy to not have had sex. What i wouldn't like to see though is any girl who didn't make the same choices as u, should be criticised and condemned for it. ... i think jesus covered that one when her met Mary M. But wot ever. .. girls do have sex before marrying n i don't think its fair for them to suffer criticism or insults if they do..... not that u have said anything like that

 

[Tintin]

Hello again mystery. Im kinda sorry u have missed some of the things u mentioned... but u seem ok about it n am happy to not have had sex. What i wouldn't like to see though is any girl who didn't make the same choices as u, should be criticised and condemned for it. ... i think jesus covered that one when her met Mary M. But wot ever. .. girls do have sex before marrying n i don't think its fair for them to suffer criticism or insults if they do..... not that u have said anything like that

Criticism, yes. Insults, no. Everything should be done out of love for God's truth. Jesus certainly didn't encourage people's sin. He accepted them as they were, but commanded them to grow in Christ.

 

[organicbeast]

See, this is one thing that doesn't make sense to me. It something Jesus Himself said is one reason it doesn't.

I mentioned this earlier, but why would God design you such, and then expect you to suppress it? Sex for sport or money, is understandable, but why would it be suppressed for love, even outside marriage?

I am not sure but it seems you are bit too focused on the sensual indulgence of the carnal/earthly mind, more than the things of the spirit of the Lord. Believe me, I myself been carnal for all my life long but biblical truth and psychological introspection of my own mind in my solitude gave me a clear impression that it is truly true my carnal mind is enmity against God. It is vile and full of evil! “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be” [Rom 8:7]
Reason I say that is because the Bible is pretty clear about our carnal nature which is in enmity with Christ. If you remember the events that took place in the Garden of Eden, they will you give a clear idea on what happened and the ramifications Adam/Eve’s disobedience/spiritual-adultery had on our physical and spiritual existence, and the entire human race! We believe God created us in His own image by giving us free will and ability to choose right from wrong, then came the initial test:

Christ = [Tree of Life] and the Serpent = [Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil] The Serpent was actually the most cunning spiritual-beast out all of the physical beasts that the Lord God had created. So you and I both know what happened next. God gave Adam/Even just ONE simple commandment and they couldn’t follow that ONE single commandment. Eve was seduced and deceived by the Serpent – in a sense that she came into agreement with the Serpent’s thoughts/idea [an act of spiritual-adultery] The whole point of that temptation was to bring forth the law of God manifest into the visible realm through the obedience of His creation [resulting in Light/God living through their choices/thoughts] with the opposing evil side of the Serpent [As Light and Dark] The above spiritual adultery resulted in the fall of ‘MAN’ into the animal side of the Serpent – With physical bodies [that defecate and urinate just like beasts] and fleshly carnal minds/animal nature. Remember Abel was good and Cain was evil? [Genetics of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil]

So, therefore we clearly know from God’s commandment to Adam and Eve that it was not His intention and desire that Adam/Eve partake of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which would manifest this animal existence with animal urges.
By the way, nowhere does it say in the scriptures that we are to suppress our animal urges, but subdue them through the spirit of the Lord. “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh” [Galatians 5:16]

So when young men and women fornicate out of love or whatever sensual indulgence and feelings of the carnal mind – would that be out of Lust or the Holy Spirit?
I personally believe that True freedom from the treachery of the carnal mind can come only from and within the spirit of the Lord. “Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom” [2 Cor 3:17]

I can see there being restrictions and limits,no doubt. However, God programs us this way, and He doesn't withhold thoseurges until we're married. And yet, we should conquer them, the very design Heput in us even as we experience them... to MAYBE experience them withoutrestriction in the bounds of marriage. (not all have the blessing of marriage)

So, is God tempting us, with our own bodies? Goddoes not tempt anyone, we remember, and a kingdom divided against itself doesn'tstand. So, does it stand to reason that God wants to drive out God? Is thatlike God fighting against His own design, in such a demand?

Well no God did NOT want or intend to program us with this animal existence, BUT HE created the Serpent with ‘that’ nature as a negative-particle opposing the law of God, so upon obeying the Law of God in front of an opposing force manifests the Law of God into the visible realm. It is actually ADAM/EVE that chose to disobey God by listening to the Serpent and ended up manifesting this carnal existence [carnal mind/animal nature] which is not in the similitude of Christ, but after the Serpent. Because the base/root conscience of the carnal mind of every human being that comes into this world is a composite of both good & evil. Environment and how a child is raised will determine whether he would lean to the good side or the evil side of his conscience.
“For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.” [Rom 8:6] If you rewind back, remember the Garden of Eden when God commands Adam/Eve not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil or else they would DIE! - Eating from that Tree manifested the Carnal mind hence Death/ Serpent-conscience(good&evil) with animal desires, thoughts and tendencies.

If you sacrifice your animal desires of your carnal mind for the sake of Christ you will manifest the spiritual Life of Christ in your soul.

 

[jamie26301]

I don't know what Scripture you could point to that sensuality is wrong in a martial, sexual relationship, or too indulgent. Eating is fleshly, but it was the desire for knowledge that prompted the fall, rather than a sensual inclination - at least, that's what I see. The fruit being "good to eat" was Eve's justification to herself that it couldn't be all that bad - ediable like all the other fruit.

In fact, there is Scripture to the contrary, that anti-sex Christians avoid like the plague. Song of Solomon.

And yes, to be carnally-minded is death, seeing how we have all struggled with the carnal nature and we all die. I don't see what that has to do with sex inside marriage. But it is a statistical fact that one of the top five issues that gives couples problems in marriage (and often leads to adultery and divorce if not handled correctly), is sexual dissatisfaction of some kind. Incompatible sexual interests, or extreme differences in desire. Sex is an important thing, and if it is not explored in some fashion (like discussion) before marriage, it could destroy the marriage. And sex helps hold couples together, esp today, BECAUSE it is pleasing and gratifing. You partner making you feel good heightens your intimacy.

 

[jamie26301]

Well, I get hung up on the sensuality, because it's the sensuality that makes sex feel good and appeasing. And again, it doesn't make sense that something can suddenly become a "good" thing in the eye of God because man, and a price of paper, decided so. So, we have the power of God to say who is married and who isn't? Because there was no priest at Adam and Eve's wedding - oh, they didn't have one, so far as we can see.

 

[Olerica]

I have been curious about this Jamie26301. You are a married woman who comes to the Singles Forum on a CHRISTIAN chat discussion, and seems to advocate for pre-marital sexual exploration (up to and including sex from the above post). I don't think that this is right. We are to encourage our brothers and sisters in Christ to NOT sin, not to indulge or explore our humanity... though human we are. We are to take every thought captive in Christ Jesus, and as we know thoughts are where things are sprouted and then grow.

The Song of Solomon implores "Do not awaken love before it's time" more than once, and sex is meant to bond a married couple. Part of that is communication and exploration within the bounds of marriage.

I don't like engaging you on this topic, because it seems like it's a pet for you and my perception is that you use intellectual gymnastics to justify your position, including physiology, your own logic, etc. You have every right to post what you'd like, but sexual relations outside of the confines of marriage are sinful. The Bible clearly states it. I'm not anti sex... and I don't think most of us ARE anti sex, but we are for APPROPRIATE sex, and since people who are single are, by definition, not married? Sex is not for us at this time of our lives.

(And here's my note to all reading: Yes, there is forgiveness. Please do not feel condemned, but convicted and spurred towards righteousness if/when sin happens. God is faithful and just to forgive us of ALL of our sins. Sex, and all of the things tied to it can be very addictive and can be a regular struggle... I well know. Yet, we don't let ourselves excuse and indulge in sin just because there is forgiveness.)

 

[jamie26301]

Ok.... I do think I advocated waiting... But I don't advocate commanding our brothers and sisters in Christ, or exaggerating things, esp as absolute, when honest inquiry of those around us show that it's not absolute.

So I'm not for pre-martial sex, but I am not against it either. I know that seems a contradiction - but to me, it's balance, not being "overly righteous" if you will. It is not my right to tell another person what God's will for them is. And so far as Genesis, it DOESN'T take intellectual academics to see there was no ceremony, only redumentary comprehension skills - they were married because God said so, and Adam knew it in his heart without even having to be told.

In a country like this, it can become a danger, I think, to be hold an extreme position on something like this. It is not debatable that someone gets hurt in murder, theft - sex is different, it is far more subjective, once you leave the confines of Scripture and we coexist with such people. I've heard people who are very happy in their marriages don't regret their former partners - it's part of how they were shaped for the right partner. Sex is interlinked with the brain, so one's perspective on life is going to affect how they feel about their experiences. That's not "corruptuon" or false teaching, that's objectiveble, observable science. People who swear on feeling guilt, were taught to feel guilt, usually. Myself included, and when the guilt of sexual sin is magnified SO much, even more so than divorce, of course you're making it ALL that more devasting when the person DOES fall. Exaggerating the magnitude of the sin can often create the opposite if they don't fall - pompous pride. It's an extreme way of teaching, and thus falling or avoiding creates extreme responses. And what I mean by exaggeration, is using scare tactics like pregnancy and STDs, which can be statistically reduced dramatically, with the right practices. Again, that's observable science.

You seem to imply I'm on this thread to corrupt people - well, you can assume that if you like. Taking an extreme view is how you get homosexuals forcing pastors to marry them, because there was so much effort to keep it illegal for so long, with no good reason beyond religious belief. Of course this is going to build resentment and vindictiveness - duh! The harder you push one way, the one you're pushing against is going to push HARDER.

So, ok, I am not single, that's true. I was single, not too long ago, and wanted to offer advice. And I'm entirely certain my status as married would have never been questioned as such, if I kept with the status quo.

So I'm sorry... I'm sorry that we can't be mature enough to let these young people decide for themselves, rather than standing over them like the Pope telling them how to interpret the Bible, and threatening them with the authority of God what the consequences would be.

It seems to me that they will have a far less likely chance of falling if they abstained out of love for God than fear, out of an independent decision to do such. But I suppose that is what irks me - premartial sex is taught as wrong with almost nothing but threats and wrath. And the "reward" of the wedding night is ALSO exaggerated.

So, I suppose that's what I think.

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

You have every right to post what you'd like, but sexual relations outside of the confines of marriage are sinful. The Bible clearly states it.

I would be very grateful if you could point me to where Scripture clearly states it, Olerica, either here or via PM. I have searched for where it's concisely stated without much luck and asked a handful of believers, but have been met with mostly logical assertions of passages that may or may not suggest it.

It would mean a lot to me!

 

[jamie26301]

I would be very grateful if you could point me to where Scripture clearly states it, Olerica, either here or via PM. I have searched for where it's concisely stated without much luck and asked a handful of believers, but have been met with mostly logical assertions of passages that may or may not suggest it.

It would mean a lot to me!

I echo this, honestly. And I also want to add that the assertion "a CHRISTIAN chat"... You do know in many churches, esp outside the US, sex outside of marriage is not frowned upon? America by far could be argued the most anti-sex or prudish nation in the world.

And I'm not one of these "we should run around topless" types, but what I am saying is that our CONTEXT and CULTURE has a profound effect on how we read Scripture.

There are Christians who don't read it thus, and I take a slight offense (in thinking of other members of the Body) to the idea that I should just assume everyone here is at aganist premartial sex or premarital sexual relations for the label "Christian" alone. Most are, definatley, and I see I have ruffled feathers and I apologize.

Because there's only one Christian stance on this issue.

 

[zaoman32]

cheeseburgers...I like cheeseburgers....

(is the tension calmed down yet?)