Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[mwc68]

In a court of law for instance, are you going to let someone lie about you to the jury and not defend yourself?

 

[mwc68]

As far as i know, turn the other cheek doesn't mean let them take advantage of you. if does, well, i have a bridge for sale real cheap

 

[FridaysChild]

i have no selfish motive. i was misrepresented and can't let that just stay because i was slandered

mwc68 - In a court of law for instance, are you going to let someone lie about you to the jury and not defend yourself?

Not saying I might not do the same thing, if I was irritated enough and thought I was right.

You're probably being baited at this point.



Just sayin'

Walk away and no one worth their salt will think the less of you.

Life is too short to waste it trying to get others to see your view point once it turns too emotional.

 

[Jeff_56]

learn what GOD'S WORD SAYS. it is written, and is different than you've been taught. (a little child can see that.

no bait needed. he hung himself.... (much much earlier than today)

Not saying I might not do the same thing, if I was irritated enough and thought I was right.

You're probably being baited at this point. ...

 

[FridaysChild]

no bait needed. he hung himself.... (much much earlier than today)

LOL! yes, but you've been quite cruel though

No desert for YOU tonight!!

 

[mwc68]

Well, yall are mean here and i don't have that kind of faith. but it has strengthened my faith in the Church. to think yall would do this makes me know I'm in the right place

 

[Galahad]

He has already said no to God in his heart. Further discussion will produce what exactly? Is it not clear that the pope is his god?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I may have missed it, but the issue of extra biblical writings that were written after the days of the NT apostles and that Catholics consider to be authoritative has not been hashed out in a clear, precise, and sequential manner. It has not.

Correct me if I am wrong. I seek your input, your response.

In all sincerity -- I ask, Is it reasonable or constructive to discuss Catholic doctrines and practices that we disagree with if the source or authority for those is not first addressed?

Remember, Catholics believe the Bible is inspired by God, just as we do. But they also believe some writings (Church Fathers or Apostolic Fathers. Not sure which or if they are the same.) that are to be followed. Why do they believe in a universal bishop? Those writings.

That must be addressed. It can be discussed. I have an answer to it. And they would affirm likewise for themselves.

 

[Galahad]

Well, yall are mean here and i don't have that kind of faith. but it has strengthened my faith in the Church. to think yall would do this makes me know I'm in the right place

mw,

I admire your willingness to step in here and discuss. You know as well as I do that people's behavior is not by itself a legitimate means or standard to test the validity of a statement, doctrine, belief.

You as well as others who have posted here are convinced in their beliefs. Those beliefs are religious. Folks with convictions in religious matters often show frustration and at times anger.

I want to continue later.

 

[mwc68]

Sorry sir, I'm out of this one. its shameful what some of you do to a fellow Christian and brother in Christ

 

[Galahad]

mw,

Okay, but I will be posting information and follow up next week. Take a breather this weekend. Think about it.

 

[Galahad]

LOL! yes, but you've been quite cruel though

No desert for YOU tonight!!

Fridays

Just read your profile. Wow! Speaks volumes. I'm going to do the same to list. Just opposite. That's excellent.

 

[Jeff_56]

LOL! yes, but you've been quite cruel though

No desert for YOU tonight!!

that would be a delicacy i wouldn't indulge in.

if you think it's cruel to expose the most violent, the most wicked, the most dangerous entity(the rcc) on earth,
then you don't know one-tenthousandeth of what they do and what they have done since they started.

just today, they ..... well.... start seeking so you can find out from the father in heaven... they have murdered more people in the last ten years
than hitler and all the nazis did when they were in power.

and in most if not all wars against the true believers, they (the rcc) are responsible... and deadly.

any person who happens to be catholic might some day be saved,

but any person who trusts in the rcc is not saved yet by any stretch of a billion years of grace from GOD,

and anyone who takes part in the wickedness of the rcc will suffer greatly for it.

 

[KenAllan]

Tell me mwc68 where in the Scriptures did God say Mary had to be sinless to keep Jesus free of sin? Tell me mwc68 where in the Scriptures did God say Mary's mother did not have to be sinless?

Luke 1:37
[SUP]37 [/SUP] For with God nothing will be impossible."

Mwc68 nothing is impossible for God. God did keep Jesus free of sin while in the womb of Mary who was a sinner. Why do you Catholics spit in God's eye and call Him a liar? Do you not know that by calling God a liar by preaching that Mary had to be sinless is grieving the Holy Spirit? How can the Holy Spirit Indwell in you when you teach that God is a liar?

Romans 1:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."

We live by Faith not by works mwc68.

Romans 10:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ephesians 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise

Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Mwc68, salvation is received by believing in Jesus and confessing that Jesus is God. Its by our Faith that Jesus is God and by the Grace of God that we receive Salvation, not by Baptism.

John 3:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Mwc68, look carefully at this verse. Clearly it says "born of water". Born of water means giving birth, not Baptism. In order to receive Salvation we have to be born as a human. No Angel can receive Salvation because they have not been born of water.

Why mwc68 do you ignore all the Scriptures that teach we receive Salvation by Faith and Grace and accept the lies from the Popes that teach you receive Salvation by Baptism? Who has the Truth in them, God or the Popes?

I know you will not accept this because you walk in darkness and darkness that is very great.

No one who has the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit can ever call God a liar. God will allow you to walk in darkness because this is what you want.

The end is near mwc68 there is very little time left to turn around and walk with God in Righteousness. The end is coming very soon. After the Rapture you will not be allowed to receive Salvation by Faith and Grace. You will literally have to die for Jesus Christ to receive Salvation. The age of Grace is coming to the end very soon.

When you see the coming of the Anti-Christ you will know your time is up.

 

[Jeff_56]

just went and read a few, maybe ten, of your posts

in which you claim to trust in the heresy and thus, according to GOD'S WORD you suffer GOD'S CURSE

upon you life and are NOT ALIVE in CHRIST JESUS as

the HERESY <<that you admit you trust in>> (see your own posts and KenAllen's posts above) is DIRECTLY CONTRARY TO THE BIBLE,

COMPLETELY CONTRARY TO GOD'S WORD and opposed to GOD'S WILL if you are to be saved.

thus anything anyone could do is not as bad as what you have done or allowed to be done to yourself,

and what the pagan rcc priests have done to keep you from finding the kingdom of heaven.(if indeed or in truth you were ever actually seeking the TRUTH).... maybe you never did.

it is GOD'S PROMISE IF YOU SEEK HIM, you will find HIM, entirely and always in line with HIS WORD
which
the rcc NEVER HONORS.

no matter what any one of us on this forum or anywhere ever say, GOD'S PROMISE IS TRUTH in YAHSHUA,

and likewise HIS CURSE is certain to all who trust in the rcc or man elsewhere.

Well, yall are mean here and i don't have that kind of faith. but it has strengthened my faith in the Church. to think yall would do this makes me know I'm in the right place

 

[mwc68]

Tell me mwc68 where in the Scriptures did God say Mary had to be sinless to keep Jesus free of sin? Tell me mwc68 where in the Scriptures did God say Mary's mother did not have to be sinless?

Luke 1:37
[SUP]37 [/SUP] For with God nothing will be impossible."

Mwc68 nothing is impossible for God. God did keep Jesus free of sin while in the womb of Mary who was a sinner. Why do you Catholics spit in God's eye and call Him a liar? Do you not know that by calling God a liar by preaching that Mary had to be sinless is grieving the Holy Spirit? How can the Holy Spirit Indwell in you when you teach that God is a liar?

Romans 1:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."

We live by Faith not by works mwc68.

Romans 10:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ephesians 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise

Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Mwc68, salvation is received by believing in Jesus and confessing that Jesus is God. Its by our Faith that Jesus is God and by the Grace of God that we receive Salvation, not by Baptism.

John 3:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Mwc68, look carefully at this verse. Clearly it says "born of water". Born of water means giving birth, not Baptism. In order to receive Salvation we have to be born as a human. No Angel can receive Salvation because they have not been born of water.

Why mwc68 do you ignore all the Scriptures that teach we receive Salvation by Faith and Grace and accept the lies from the Popes that teach you receive Salvation by Baptism? Who has the Truth in them, God or the Popes?

I know you will not accept this because you walk in darkness and darkness that is very great.

No one who has the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit can ever call God a liar. God will allow you to walk in darkness because this is what you want.

The end is near mwc68 there is very little time left to turn around and walk with God in Righteousness. The end is coming very soon. After the Rapture you will not be allowed to receive Salvation by Faith and Grace. You will literally have to die for Jesus Christ to receive Salvation. The age of Grace is coming to the end very soon.

When you see the coming of the Anti-Christ you will know your time is up.

wow, more insults. I don't expect anything elsr from yall

 

[mwc68]

Just lies here

 

[mwc68]

Rapture, Satans greatest deception

 

[SAVAS]

There was no hierarchy. Each group of bishops were responsible for their own church. As Ignatius said, the Roman church 'presided in the region of the Romans' (not their bishop. They had no sole bishop). If they had remained doing that instead of trying to boss the church about and take it over there would have been no problem.

Bishops, priests, deacons, elders, within the churches?

It is not a question of whether there is oral tradition. All churches and religions have oral tradition. The Muslims have oral tradition. The question is whether that oral tradition is reliable. And the further from the source it gets the less reliable it is.
Ignatius for example comes 80 years after the death of Christ. On the whole that is two generations which have lived and died. Time enough for oral tradition to have become distorted. And Ignatius mainly gave his own opinions not Scriptural truth and was rendered less reliable by the high excitement he was in as he approached his martyrdom. We have to take this into account when considering his words.

You consider him unreliable based on his opinions. Maybe because he didn't have a Bible to reference from, just oral tradition. It seems reasonable to think his "opinions" are false if your using the Bible and he was using strictly oral tradition in his writings.

In fact of course it was only after Christ's death and resurrection that the Gospel could be made clear. That is why we have the epistles. No one suggested putting Ignatius letters in as Scripture. It was only Apostolic writings which were accepted.

Yes but to say that successors of Apostles documents are null and void isn't clear to me. I understand you don't think you need his writings but, at least, consider his way of life and honor that. He was a great defender of the Christian Faith, and died for it.

But He nowhere enjoined fasting as a religious exercise. He was simply guiding those who chose to fast. I fast. But I do not do it to earn merit or think it puts me in favour with God. It aids in concentrating the mind on God, prayer and the Scriptures.

A religious exercise? I'm not sure who calls it that. We may agree here. How do you fast, what do you fast from and why?

I have never said a word against liturgy. If you wish to worship liturgically that is up to you. Each of us is free to worship in the way we find most helpful. What is wrong is if we somehow suggest that our own liturgy is 'God inspired'.

I'm most certain the Early Church was liturgical, I would just follow that as best we know.

 

[SAVAS]

LOL now I've hear it all. Forgeries my dear boy. Forgeries. The only genuine letter we have before 100 AD, apart from Scripture, is Clement's letter in c 95 AD. There is no proof for oral tradition. No one ever wrote down, 'this is oral tradition received from the Apostles' within a period in which it could be acceptable. Indeed the early church made clear that so called oral traditions incorporated in writings were unacceptable and heretical. That is why they limited authoritative books to be read in churches to the Apostolic writings.

My dates wrong here. That's fine. It was really early that's for sure, early enough to be considered as apostles of The Apostles, or do you think they didn't have those? Right the Church chose Apostolic writings only, makes sense considering they were eyewitness (even though tradition has it St. Ignatious, although very young was eyewitness as well). The Apostolic Fathers writings heretical and unacceptable? I'd like to see your source for this claim. Why would writings and teachings of Church Fathers in line with Scripture and the seven councils be heretical? I must be misunderstanding you.

Apostolic succession was a device by which certain teachers tried to combat heresy by pointing to those teachers who were in churches which had been founded by the Apostles. (there is absolutely no hint of preference for Rome). But it was not a doctrine, it was practical evidence. It had no divine backing. It was a theory of men useful in the first hundred years after the Apostles when men lived who had known the Apostles. Some came from those very churches who were heretics. Take Alexandria for instance. Both Clement and Origen were heretics as both espoused Gnostic views. Were they in the Apostolic succession? LOL

If they were anathematized in one of the 7 councils, they were not apart of Apostolic succession. Apostolic succession isn't doctrine, at least not for Orthodoxy. We are quite certain of the Church Fathers who are in line with Orthodox Doctrine, the 7 councils all the way to the Apostles.

I'm not the only one who disapproved of him for interfering with church affairs. Both the bishops of Alexandria and Antioch rejected his request at Nicea to give Rome precedence. He may have distributed Scripture (possibly he believed in sola scriptura?) but he also introduced paganism into the Roman church from which it never recovered. And he also introduced the idea of using violence to force people to conform, a lesson the Roman church learned exceedingly well.

I have no evidence for his believing him Sola or being a pagan . The most I know Constantine come from William Lane Craig here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyYdA4aCzOY

 

[KenAllan]

Actually mwc68 Satan's greatest deception is the Doctrine that Mary was sinless.

I never expected any Truths from you mwc68 and guess what, you have lived up to my expectations.

Its easy to dismiss the teachings of the Holy Spirit with one line responses.

And yes the Rapture is real. Fortunately the Rapture is not depended on what the corrupted Catholics teach. God is in charge mwc68 not you and certainly not Pope Francis.

Jesus Christ will return and with a shout will call all His Children up into the air to be with Him. Then He will take us to Heaven to be with Him while the Anti-Christ destroys everything on this World. Fortunately mwc68 you will not be with us.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore comfort one another with these words.

It says right here that the Lord Himself will descend from Heaven with a shout. I did not make this up, this is actually written in the Bible. It also says we who are alive shall meet the Lord in the air. I am assuming that you do know how to read and how to understand what you read.

So if i understand you right you are saying these verses are not in the Bible? That the Bible does not say the Lord will descend with a shout? That the Bible does not say we will meet Him in the air?

Who shall i believe, what you say or what my eyes see that is written in the Bible?

You can close your eyes all you want to what the Bible says but did you Catholics not claim the Bible came from the Catholic Church? Therefore why are you rejecting what the Catholic Church put together? Or could it be the Catholic Church never put the Bible together!

If you Catholics claim it was your Church that brought us the Bible then you have to accept what God said in the Book 1 Thessalonians! After all you brought us the Bible. Therefore you have to accept what 1 Thessalonians says.