Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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I know more about what goes on in the Catholic Church then you realize Mikeuk. You forget that i was BORN and RAISED in the Catholic Church!!! I know exactly what they teach!
You can lie all you want about what the catechism says, BUT the only authority we have IS the Holy Spirit AND the Scriptures He wrote! The catechism has NO AUTHORITY over me! The Catholic Church has no authority over me! Only the Word of God has authority over me!
When will you learn Mikeuk that the Catholic Church teaches lies from men as Truths from God? A very big lie from the Catholics is that Mary was sinless. God said in the Scriptures that Mary was a sinner. Who shall i listen to? You Catholics who teach lies as Truths from God or God Himself?
Romans 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Hebrews 4:15 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
The ONLY sinless person was JESUS!
I give you a challenge Mikeuk, where in the Scriptures ONLY did the Holy Spirit ever say Mary was without sin?
I know for a fact God NEVER said Mary was without sin!
Therefore this proves you Catholics are not Children of God but are the children of Satan.
You can lie all you want about what the catechism says, BUT the only authority we have IS the Holy Spirit AND the Scriptures He wrote! The catechism has NO AUTHORITY over me! The Catholic Church has no authority over me! Only the Word of God has authority over me!
When will you learn Mikeuk that the Catholic Church teaches lies from men as Truths from God? A very big lie from the Catholics is that Mary was sinless. God said in the Scriptures that Mary was a sinner. Who shall i listen to? You Catholics who teach lies as Truths from God or God Himself?
Romans 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Hebrews 4:15 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
The ONLY sinless person was JESUS!
I give you a challenge Mikeuk, where in the Scriptures ONLY did the Holy Spirit ever say Mary was without sin?
I know for a fact God NEVER said Mary was without sin!
Therefore this proves you Catholics are not Children of God but are the children of Satan.
M
You were seemingly absent the day they taught it, considering the massive errors you make in describing catholic belief. No wonder you left, if they believed what you think. But more is the pity you never did enough research to find out.
In answer to your question" where in scripture"
Where exactly in the scripture does it say it has to be in the scripture to be true?
Which exact verse Ken? It says the "pillar and foundation of truth is the church" not scripture!
Do you doubt the power of God? When you say the Lords Prayer, you ask for god's grace to "keep you free from temptation". Do you say he cannot do this even for someone "favoured by God" "full of grace" and the "lord is with her". Why do you doubt God's ability to "keep free from temptation " to sin, if he so wishes for someone as special as Mary, with whom the Lord is constant companion?
In answer to your question" where in scripture"
Where exactly in the scripture does it say it has to be in the scripture to be true?
Which exact verse Ken? It says the "pillar and foundation of truth is the church" not scripture!
Do you doubt the power of God? When you say the Lords Prayer, you ask for god's grace to "keep you free from temptation". Do you say he cannot do this even for someone "favoured by God" "full of grace" and the "lord is with her". Why do you doubt God's ability to "keep free from temptation " to sin, if he so wishes for someone as special as Mary, with whom the Lord is constant companion?
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that was certainly how Jesus saw it. 'The Scripture cannot be broken'. He continually taught from the Scripture and showed men to be wrong from the Scriptures. Obviously there are material facts which are true in themselves, but spiritual things have to be tested by the Scriptures, as Jesus constantly showed us.
yes the spiritual church of the 1st century, because at that stage there was no New Testament. They were taught by the Apostles, and their truth came from the Apostles. Paul was not comparing the church with the Scriptures, he was comparing it with false teachers. Where can we go for truth, he was saying? To the church whose teaching is based on that of the Apostles and on the Scriptures. It is only people who are lacking in intelligence who think that those words can be applied to themselves whenever and whatever they teach. They must be tested by Apostolic teaching, which was what the early church recognised when it set aside the Apostolic writings as unique. Your church is full of false teachers. So we (the true church of true believers) compare them with the Apostolic teaching of the early church which was the pillar and ground of the truth and find you wanting.
The Roman Catholic church is only one of many denominations, and is one that has introduced heresies. It is only YOU who claim that they are the church Paul was speaking about. But you are not, and never were. The church he was speaking about was the independent churches of the mid 1st century who had been grounded in Apostolic teaching. Their only joint authority was THE APOSTLES. So God made sure that we had the Apostolic teaching IN WRITING so that it could not be altered or expanded on.
No, but I doubt very much your ideas about how He uses it.
Actually I follow the Greek and ask GOD in His love not to lead me into testing.
Well Mary did go into testing, and she failed. So God clearly did not do it. The prayer is designed to prevent us seeking to be tested. Jesus knew perfectly well that all who prayed it WOULD be tested.
Mary as a very young girl was chosen to bear the Messiah. She was certainly favoured by God but only in that occurrence. She was not favoured by God when Jesus refused to see her and said that it was those who did the will of God (which MARY WAS NOT DOING) who were His mother (Mark 4.32-35).
She was 'full of grace' when God's gracious gift of His Son was in her, but she was NOT continually full of grace as the above event showed. During most of Jesus life she was at odds with Him. It was only when He was on the cross that she again came back into fellowship with Him. 'Blessed is the womb which bore you, and the breasts that you have sucked' 'NO RATHER, BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD AND KEEP IT'. (YOU WILL NOTICE THAT WHAT HE WANTED THEM TO DO WAS KEEP THE WORD OF GOD, not the teachings of men).
I do not doubt His ability to do so. But both the word and history show that He does not do so except to a certain extent. He keeps us free from temptation that we are not able to bear.
But He certainly did not keep Mary from temptation. She was cross with Jesus' when He stayed in His Father's house. She tried to keep Him from doing the work that the father had for Him and had to be rebuked. She had clearly been tempted in both cases and had fallen.
The Lord is not a constant companion with Mary in any way in which He is not a constant companion of all who have gone to be with Him. He is MY constant companion also. She is no longer 'special'. She failed when the test came.
yes the spiritual church of the 1st century, because at that stage there was no New Testament. They were taught by the Apostles, and their truth came from the Apostles. Paul was not comparing the church with the Scriptures, he was comparing it with false teachers. Where can we go for truth, he was saying? To the church whose teaching is based on that of the Apostles and on the Scriptures. It is only people who are lacking in intelligence who think that those words can be applied to themselves whenever and whatever they teach. They must be tested by Apostolic teaching, which was what the early church recognised when it set aside the Apostolic writings as unique. Your church is full of false teachers. So we (the true church of true believers) compare them with the Apostolic teaching of the early church which was the pillar and ground of the truth and find you wanting.
The Roman Catholic church is only one of many denominations, and is one that has introduced heresies. It is only YOU who claim that they are the church Paul was speaking about. But you are not, and never were. The church he was speaking about was the independent churches of the mid 1st century who had been grounded in Apostolic teaching. Their only joint authority was THE APOSTLES. So God made sure that we had the Apostolic teaching IN WRITING so that it could not be altered or expanded on.
No, but I doubt very much your ideas about how He uses it.
Actually I follow the Greek and ask GOD in His love not to lead me into testing.
Well Mary did go into testing, and she failed. So God clearly did not do it. The prayer is designed to prevent us seeking to be tested. Jesus knew perfectly well that all who prayed it WOULD be tested.
Mary as a very young girl was chosen to bear the Messiah. She was certainly favoured by God but only in that occurrence. She was not favoured by God when Jesus refused to see her and said that it was those who did the will of God (which MARY WAS NOT DOING) who were His mother (Mark 4.32-35).
She was 'full of grace' when God's gracious gift of His Son was in her, but she was NOT continually full of grace as the above event showed. During most of Jesus life she was at odds with Him. It was only when He was on the cross that she again came back into fellowship with Him. 'Blessed is the womb which bore you, and the breasts that you have sucked' 'NO RATHER, BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD AND KEEP IT'. (YOU WILL NOTICE THAT WHAT HE WANTED THEM TO DO WAS KEEP THE WORD OF GOD, not the teachings of men).
I do not doubt His ability to do so. But both the word and history show that He does not do so except to a certain extent. He keeps us free from temptation that we are not able to bear.
But He certainly did not keep Mary from temptation. She was cross with Jesus' when He stayed in His Father's house. She tried to keep Him from doing the work that the father had for Him and had to be rebuked. She had clearly been tempted in both cases and had fallen.
The Lord is not a constant companion with Mary in any way in which He is not a constant companion of all who have gone to be with Him. He is MY constant companion also. She is no longer 'special'. She failed when the test came.
Perhaps you should return him to the re-education camp until he can be taught the error of his ways. Purgatory here on earth and in eternity.
Judge righteous judgments. Judge according to the word of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Please provide for me the personal testimonies of your ECF's where they declare how they personally got saved.
Pope Francis ever reveal how he got saved?
Do you understand the concept of salvation by grace? Do you believe that it is a current possession as well as a future position?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Judge righteous judgments. Judge according to the word of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Please provide for me the personal testimonies of your ECF's where they declare how they personally got saved.
Pope Francis ever reveal how he got saved?
Do you understand the concept of salvation by grace? Do you believe that it is a current possession as well as a future position?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
that's never been in question( for the ekklesia, the children of GOD).
everything those in heresy think, say and do (post) is wrong and evil.
only if they repent can they be saved.
................................(same as all persons on earth). until then, they remain dead in sins,
they all are otherwise
unable to learn the truth about anything.
everything those in heresy think, say and do (post) is wrong and evil.
only if they repent can they be saved.
................................(same as all persons on earth). until then, they remain dead in sins,
they all are otherwise
unable to learn the truth about anything.
M
Difficult to know where you are going with that, other than exposing the obvious fact that to a man from polycarp (disciple of john the apostle), justin martyr and on believed that salvation was a journey, not an event. That you certainly COULD go off the rails, and that salvation required "we live worthily of him" (quoting polycarp- who as a student of john the apostle, clearly knew the truth and passed it on, long before the new testament existed!)
For sure there are steps on the road, and like apostle Paul, the first step is being baptized to recieve the spirit, but what you do with that, Origen "it is possible to fall away" Irenaus "if we do things displeasing to God...we are shut out from his kingdom" Justin Martyr says backsliding, denying of Christ is enough to "not be saved" So on . So forth
All this OSAS nonsense is an invention of a fast food Macdonalds, instant gratification modern world, full of get rich quick schemes that do not work. OSAS is the religious get rich quick scheme. Born of "proof texting the bible" where everyone gets to make up what it means. It seems many protestants have a bible one verse long John 3:16, and think nothing else matters after that, despite a bible telling them a great deal more than that DOES matter!
As for the first time they accepted the lord as saviour (as opposed to being saved) not all of them are biographical, but some are specific, take Augustine. You need to accept that most could not read at the time, so books were an exception for the learned only, the faith was passed down by word of mouth and occasional letter of the few educated ones. The new testament a long time in coming, and it would be almost two millenia before the printing press and average earnings allowed the common man to own one.
For sure there are steps on the road, and like apostle Paul, the first step is being baptized to recieve the spirit, but what you do with that, Origen "it is possible to fall away" Irenaus "if we do things displeasing to God...we are shut out from his kingdom" Justin Martyr says backsliding, denying of Christ is enough to "not be saved" So on . So forth
All this OSAS nonsense is an invention of a fast food Macdonalds, instant gratification modern world, full of get rich quick schemes that do not work. OSAS is the religious get rich quick scheme. Born of "proof texting the bible" where everyone gets to make up what it means. It seems many protestants have a bible one verse long John 3:16, and think nothing else matters after that, despite a bible telling them a great deal more than that DOES matter!
As for the first time they accepted the lord as saviour (as opposed to being saved) not all of them are biographical, but some are specific, take Augustine. You need to accept that most could not read at the time, so books were an exception for the learned only, the faith was passed down by word of mouth and occasional letter of the few educated ones. The new testament a long time in coming, and it would be almost two millenia before the printing press and average earnings allowed the common man to own one.
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M
It is hard to discuss with someone so illogical.
The statement "all truth is contained in scripture" (the false belief of reformationists) is logically not the eqivalence of "all scripture is truth" ( which is what we all believe).
I asked you "where in scripture does it say, it has to be in scripture to be true?", and I can save you a lot of effort by stating without fear of contradiction, it simply is not there! Scripture DOES say the "pillar of truth is the church" not scripture. Indeed sola scriptura is logically unsupportable. For the statement "all truth is in scripture" to be true, scripture would have to say that to be logically consistent, and nowhere does it say that so sola scriptura is LOGICALLY AND BIBLICALLY FALSE!
And speaking at the time he did, scripture was the old testament. Jesus did not give us a new testament book , he gave a new covenant (a word that later changed to refer to a book), Jesus gave us apostles to hand down the truth essentially by word of mouth (the meaning of tradition, a handing down)
So sola scripture is also HISTORICALLY FALSE!!! that is not how early christianity worked.
You really do not like Mary do you? You will twist anything to defend a bad case.
You clearly do not trust the power of God to do what he says in the Lords prayer, that with grace he can "keep free from temptation to sin", which is why us common folk beg for the grace to be able to do that, which she already has in full, the bible says so!.
So considering Mary was full of grace, lord was with her , all generations call her blessed (the bible puts no timebound on any of those, as you do) - he cleary could keep her free from temptation to sin, important if you want a good guide for the early life of God's son!.
So why do you not think God can do what he says? You worship an inferior God, mine I trust to do what he says!
Your example of sin is ridiculous, all mothers should challenge an infant who bunks off.. she would have been failing in her (heaven appointed) duty to protect him if she did not! That scripture was not just a historic incident but a "type" heralding the passion to come.
The statement "all truth is contained in scripture" (the false belief of reformationists) is logically not the eqivalence of "all scripture is truth" ( which is what we all believe).
I asked you "where in scripture does it say, it has to be in scripture to be true?", and I can save you a lot of effort by stating without fear of contradiction, it simply is not there! Scripture DOES say the "pillar of truth is the church" not scripture. Indeed sola scriptura is logically unsupportable. For the statement "all truth is in scripture" to be true, scripture would have to say that to be logically consistent, and nowhere does it say that so sola scriptura is LOGICALLY AND BIBLICALLY FALSE!
And speaking at the time he did, scripture was the old testament. Jesus did not give us a new testament book , he gave a new covenant (a word that later changed to refer to a book), Jesus gave us apostles to hand down the truth essentially by word of mouth (the meaning of tradition, a handing down)
So sola scripture is also HISTORICALLY FALSE!!! that is not how early christianity worked.
You really do not like Mary do you? You will twist anything to defend a bad case.
You clearly do not trust the power of God to do what he says in the Lords prayer, that with grace he can "keep free from temptation to sin", which is why us common folk beg for the grace to be able to do that, which she already has in full, the bible says so!.
So considering Mary was full of grace, lord was with her , all generations call her blessed (the bible puts no timebound on any of those, as you do) - he cleary could keep her free from temptation to sin, important if you want a good guide for the early life of God's son!.
So why do you not think God can do what he says? You worship an inferior God, mine I trust to do what he says!
Your example of sin is ridiculous, all mothers should challenge an infant who bunks off.. she would have been failing in her (heaven appointed) duty to protect him if she did not! That scripture was not just a historic incident but a "type" heralding the passion to come.
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Scripturally salvation is BOTH an event and a Journey. It tells us that 'we have been saved' (Tits 3.5), we have been and are saved (Eph 2.8-9), we are being saved (1 Cor 1.18), and one day we will be saved. The advantage true believers have over Roman Catholics is that WE believe that Christ saves us, whilst the Roman Catholic church believes that the church saves them with the help of Christ. Thus our salvation is guaranteed because Christ CANNOT fail, whereas the Roman Catholics have to satisfy their church.
It is actually irrelevant what Polycarp or Justin Martyr believed. They did not have the New Testament as a whole, and the early fathers were not too hot on correct exegesis with what they did have. If Polycarp had read John's letters he would know that 'God has given to us ETERNAL LIFE, and this life is in His Son. He Who has the Son has life. He who does not have the Son does not have life. These things are written to you that you may KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
I am not aware of any Christian who doubts that he/she has to live worthily of the LORD. But that is the consequence of being saved, not the condition or the grounds. In salvation it is GOD Who is 'at work, working within us to will and do of His good pleasure' (Phil 2.13). We are 'created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works, which God has FOREORDAINED that we should walk in them'. Salvation is God's work not ours. We respond in faith.
No one 'receives the Spirit' when they are baptised unless they are baptised immediately after truly believing. It is not an automatic process. We receive the Spirit when we become Christ's, and that is when we first truly put our trust in Him to be our Saviour.
Origen though a great scholar was a gross heretic. Justin Martyr was more Platonistic than Scriptural. Irenaeus statement is clearly wrong. All of us do things which are displeasing to God daily. If he was right in what he said we would all be shut out of His kingdom. His words were careless and without thought, the words of a preacher not a careful scholar.
That's strange I thought John's Gospel was written in 1st century AD. In it Jesus said, 'and this is the will of Him Who sent Me that of all whom He has given Me I should lose NOTHING, but should rise Him up at the last day' (John 6.39).
Again He said, 'My sheep hear My voice and I KNOW them and the follow Me, and I GIVE to them ETERNAL life and they will NEVER PERISH and none shall pluck them from my hand.' (John 10.27-28).
I guess now that I know He was employed by Macdonalds I will have to think again. Or could it be that the Roman Catholic church is WRONG?
It is actually irrelevant what Polycarp or Justin Martyr believed. They did not have the New Testament as a whole, and the early fathers were not too hot on correct exegesis with what they did have. If Polycarp had read John's letters he would know that 'God has given to us ETERNAL LIFE, and this life is in His Son. He Who has the Son has life. He who does not have the Son does not have life. These things are written to you that you may KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
I am not aware of any Christian who doubts that he/she has to live worthily of the LORD. But that is the consequence of being saved, not the condition or the grounds. In salvation it is GOD Who is 'at work, working within us to will and do of His good pleasure' (Phil 2.13). We are 'created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works, which God has FOREORDAINED that we should walk in them'. Salvation is God's work not ours. We respond in faith.
No one 'receives the Spirit' when they are baptised unless they are baptised immediately after truly believing. It is not an automatic process. We receive the Spirit when we become Christ's, and that is when we first truly put our trust in Him to be our Saviour.
Origen though a great scholar was a gross heretic. Justin Martyr was more Platonistic than Scriptural. Irenaeus statement is clearly wrong. All of us do things which are displeasing to God daily. If he was right in what he said we would all be shut out of His kingdom. His words were careless and without thought, the words of a preacher not a careful scholar.
That's strange I thought John's Gospel was written in 1st century AD. In it Jesus said, 'and this is the will of Him Who sent Me that of all whom He has given Me I should lose NOTHING, but should rise Him up at the last day' (John 6.39).
Again He said, 'My sheep hear My voice and I KNOW them and the follow Me, and I GIVE to them ETERNAL life and they will NEVER PERISH and none shall pluck them from my hand.' (John 10.27-28).
I guess now that I know He was employed by Macdonalds I will have to think again. Or could it be that the Roman Catholic church is WRONG?
well I do not like these quick fix statements. But they do contain truth. Salvation is of the LORD. It is He Who saves. And He is not incompetent. He does not need the church to do His Job. Becoming 'saved' is quick (although it may require some time before we desire to be saved) for it is the consequence of genuinely committing ourselves to Jesus Christ to be saved. From then on it is in His hands. 'He Who has begun a good work in you will continue it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 1.6). He will confirm you to the end that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful' (1 Cot 1.8-9). 'I know Whom I have believed and am persuaded that HE IS ABLE to keep what I have committed to Him against that day'. (2 Tim 1.12)
Of course the roman Catholics think He can't possibly manage without them. And that can on the whole mean that they are trusting in the church for salvation and not in Him. I prefer to rely on HIM.
But you cannot commit yourself to Jesus Christ to be your Saviour without being saved. The two go together. Once He has accepted your case your salvation is His responsibility.
LOL you talk as thought there were huge amounts of Material. There is in fact very little which is genuine. Although I will agree that the forgeries were mainly long before the Roman Catholic church ever existed.
each reasonably large church had copies of the Scriptures available to be read and many Christians were well educated. Almost all the New Testament was available in most churches by the second part of the second century. And much before that. so you slightly exaggerate as usual LOL
Of course the roman Catholics think He can't possibly manage without them. And that can on the whole mean that they are trusting in the church for salvation and not in Him. I prefer to rely on HIM.
But you cannot commit yourself to Jesus Christ to be your Saviour without being saved. The two go together. Once He has accepted your case your salvation is His responsibility.
LOL you talk as thought there were huge amounts of Material. There is in fact very little which is genuine. Although I will agree that the forgeries were mainly long before the Roman Catholic church ever existed.
each reasonably large church had copies of the Scriptures available to be read and many Christians were well educated. Almost all the New Testament was available in most churches by the second part of the second century. And much before that. so you slightly exaggerate as usual LOL
First Mikeuk the "Church" talked about being the Pillar of Truth is NOT the Catholic Church! How can the Catholic Church be the "Pillar of Truth" when you teach that Mary was sinless? It cannot be the "Pillar"! The Catholic Church was never the "Pillar of Truth".
Second "Full of Grace" does NOT mean a person is sinless!
John 1:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.
We ALL have received Grace and MORE Grace! Therefore by your standards we ALL are sinless! Full of Grace does not mean sinless. This is why you Mikeuk are not a True Christian. You reject what the Holy Spirit teaches for the lies of Men. Do you realize you will never enter into Heaven? How can you enter into Heaven if you are not doing the Will of the Father?
Clearly you have never study the Scriptures. Clearly the Holy Spirit says for ALL have sinned. None are righteous, not one, not even Mary.
John 8:6-7
[SUP]6 [/SUP] This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Clearly even Jesus is saying that EVERYONE sins, even Mary!
Therefore to claim that Mary was sinless and to teach that Mary was sinless proves the Catholic Church was NEVER the "pillar and foundation of truth". Your Church Mikeuk is a false Church that does not have the Truth in it anymore! The Catholic Church has given up the right to be called a True Church because it teaches false Doctrines about Mary!
Do you realize you are doing the work of Satan? Do you realize you have turned your back on God to follow and Worship Mary as your god? No one who ever calls the Holy Spirit a liar will ever enter into Heaven.
Matthew 7:13-14
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
The Catholic Church is on the broad way that leads to destruction Mileuk!
Matthew 7:21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Repent Mikeuk, reject Mary!, return to God before its too late and you are cast into the Lake of Fire with all the Popes from the Catholic Church! Its ONLY God and God ONLY! There is no God and Mary!
Second "Full of Grace" does NOT mean a person is sinless!
John 1:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.
We ALL have received Grace and MORE Grace! Therefore by your standards we ALL are sinless! Full of Grace does not mean sinless. This is why you Mikeuk are not a True Christian. You reject what the Holy Spirit teaches for the lies of Men. Do you realize you will never enter into Heaven? How can you enter into Heaven if you are not doing the Will of the Father?
Clearly you have never study the Scriptures. Clearly the Holy Spirit says for ALL have sinned. None are righteous, not one, not even Mary.
John 8:6-7
[SUP]6 [/SUP] This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Clearly even Jesus is saying that EVERYONE sins, even Mary!
Therefore to claim that Mary was sinless and to teach that Mary was sinless proves the Catholic Church was NEVER the "pillar and foundation of truth". Your Church Mikeuk is a false Church that does not have the Truth in it anymore! The Catholic Church has given up the right to be called a True Church because it teaches false Doctrines about Mary!
Do you realize you are doing the work of Satan? Do you realize you have turned your back on God to follow and Worship Mary as your god? No one who ever calls the Holy Spirit a liar will ever enter into Heaven.
Matthew 7:13-14
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
The Catholic Church is on the broad way that leads to destruction Mileuk!
Matthew 7:21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Repent Mikeuk, reject Mary!, return to God before its too late and you are cast into the Lake of Fire with all the Popes from the Catholic Church! Its ONLY God and God ONLY! There is no God and Mary!
John 3:16 is not a proof text. John 3:16 is the golden text of the bible. John 3:16 encapsulates the gospel of Jesus Christ into a single verse of scripture. John 3:16 is so complete that it is almost impossible to take it out of context. John 3:16 is so complete that if one only knew one verse of scripture that one verse is sufficient to make one wise unto salvation.
Salvation according to the bible is not a journey but an event that transforms, biblical term quickens, the soul dead in sin into a new living creation. Until one is made alive in Christ they can do nothing. The doing part is sanctification not salvation. One must possess salvation before one can begin the process of sanctification. A person is saved to work. A person is not saved by their works.
Either history has been altered or those seen as ECF's were not saved men according to the scriptures. That you attribute to them the legacy of salvation attained and then the possibility of salvation lost while not surprising is a misrepresentation of biblical salvation through the confusion of not understanding the biblical principals salvation and sanctification.
The apostles and many of the subsequent martyrs did not die without full assurance of the hope within them. Only through the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit can a person have full assurance of hope and the God given strength to endure even to the point of death.
Those who are born again, saved know they are eternally secure in the grace of God. The Holy Spirit provides witness to this fact in every aspect of their daily life. It is the Comforter who gives the peace that passes all understanding. It is the Holy Spirit that ministers through the born again biblical Christian that prompts service, enables service and glorifies God.
Salvation requires more than mere mental assent to Christ as Savior. God is never too busy to minister individually to a soul who is I need first of salvation then sanctification. The journey of sanctification is filled with hardships and trials but the event of salvation is so great as to make all that seem nothing at all. When something as big as the devil moves out and someone as big as God moves in there is a change so radical that it cannot be denied. When a soul burdened with sin looks up to God and cries out God be merciful to me a sinner and the burden is lifted well it is a moment that cannot ever be erased. The thrill, the joy and the victory is so great that the human breast can scarce contain it.
Today is the day of salvation. Do not delay come to Christ while you may for one day God will trouble you no longer but will with great regret allow you to go your way and depart into eternal night.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Salvation according to the bible is not a journey but an event that transforms, biblical term quickens, the soul dead in sin into a new living creation. Until one is made alive in Christ they can do nothing. The doing part is sanctification not salvation. One must possess salvation before one can begin the process of sanctification. A person is saved to work. A person is not saved by their works.
Either history has been altered or those seen as ECF's were not saved men according to the scriptures. That you attribute to them the legacy of salvation attained and then the possibility of salvation lost while not surprising is a misrepresentation of biblical salvation through the confusion of not understanding the biblical principals salvation and sanctification.
The apostles and many of the subsequent martyrs did not die without full assurance of the hope within them. Only through the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit can a person have full assurance of hope and the God given strength to endure even to the point of death.
Those who are born again, saved know they are eternally secure in the grace of God. The Holy Spirit provides witness to this fact in every aspect of their daily life. It is the Comforter who gives the peace that passes all understanding. It is the Holy Spirit that ministers through the born again biblical Christian that prompts service, enables service and glorifies God.
Salvation requires more than mere mental assent to Christ as Savior. God is never too busy to minister individually to a soul who is I need first of salvation then sanctification. The journey of sanctification is filled with hardships and trials but the event of salvation is so great as to make all that seem nothing at all. When something as big as the devil moves out and someone as big as God moves in there is a change so radical that it cannot be denied. When a soul burdened with sin looks up to God and cries out God be merciful to me a sinner and the burden is lifted well it is a moment that cannot ever be erased. The thrill, the joy and the victory is so great that the human breast can scarce contain it.
Today is the day of salvation. Do not delay come to Christ while you may for one day God will trouble you no longer but will with great regret allow you to go your way and depart into eternal night.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Just what I was thinking LOL
The statement "all truth is contained in scripture" (the false belief of reformationists) is logically not the eqivalence of "all scripture is truth" ( which is what we all believe).
If your church believed that all the Scripture was truth your views would be very different. You would not add on the 'added extras' like Mary, the saints, images, reserved sacrament, etc. They are a contradiction to Scripture. No one says 'all truth is contained in Scripture'. What we say is that all truth necessary for salvation and for our spiritual growth is contained in Scripture. The early church knew that which was why they rejected from the canon all non-Apostolic works.
What has? If the Scripture said that it would be wrong. My mathematical knowledge is not found in Scripture, and it is true. But as Isaiah said, 'to the word and to the testimony. If they speak not according to this word there is no truth in them'.
As Paul said to Timothy, 'from a child you have known the sacred writings which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (Nothing else needed). For all Scripture is God-breathed and is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness, that the man of God may be completely furnished unto every good work.
If the Scriptures can make us wise unto salvation and can COMPLETELY furnish us, what need have we of anything more?
I have just demonstrated that it is,
But which church? The original church which were the Orthodox churches (and which one of those?) The Roman Catholic Church which enforced itself on independent churches in the seventh and eight centuries by using political power and tried to do the same with the Orthodox churches and failed? The Jerusalem Catholic Church? The Greek Catholic Church? The Old Catholic Church? The Baptist church which was around at the beginning as a group of independent churches which baptised adults? And I could name many more, different reformed churches, different Catholic churches, different orthodox churches and so on. There is no one church (although there is one pretentious one0 . Paul was talking about the independent churches which were in submission to the Apostles. So clearly the true church is the one that submits to the Apostolic teaching as found in the Scriptures, MY CHURCH Lol
I have never heard such unadulterated rubbish. Whether something is true is not determined by the source itself. It is determined by those competent to judge, such as God, Jesus Christ, and the Apostles. The Bible is THE WORD OF GOD. As such it supersedes all else and is superior to all else, and is the only RELIABLE source of spiritual truth..
AND especially by writing down the truth in the New Testament Scripture. Peter called Paul's letters SCRIPTURE. God inspired the NT Scriptures because he knew how quickly oral tradition can become ORAL LIES. The early church knew it also and judged everything by the Scriptures. They sought to prove their position by the Scriptures. They excluded from them anything that did not have an Apostolic source.
I respect and admire the real Mary, who was both godly and weak and sinful, but came through in the end. I do not admire the goddess that you try to turn Mary into. As Jesus said, those who heeded God's words were more blessed than she.
You speak and believe such rubbish that it is almost unbelievable. The Lord's prayer in Scripture does not say 'keep free from temptation to sin.' It says, 'do not lead us into testing'. God does not lead into temptation. But He does lead us into testing.
Mary was not full of grace. Scripture nowhere says that she was. She was highly favoured because she had been chosen to be the mother of the Messiah. God's 'grace' was in her belly. It indicated that she was bearing the Messiah. It said nothing about her spiritual life in which like all of us she failed. She rebuked Jesus for doing what was God's will. She disobeyed Him at Cana. She tried to hinder His Messianic ministry. We do not hear of her supporting Him until she finally realised the truth at the resurrection. YOUR Mary is a mythical goddess unknown to Scripture.
Scripture nowhere says that she was full of grace. She was engraced as all true Christians are engraced (Eph 1.6). I am totally dependent on His grace which is at work within me and I have Jesus Christ within me as have all TRUE Christians . The LORD is also with me and with all those who are His. Mary was no different from other godly people.
You should of course note that Elizabeth's words were not inspired. We simply have inspired Scripture telling us what she said in her enthusiasm. It carries no theological authority. And a Jesus said those who are truly blessed, in contrast to Mary, are those who hear the word of God and keep it.
God does do what He says. What He does not do is what the Roman Catholic church says. My God is in fact superior to yours. He does not have to lean on the Roman Catholic church.
Lol you RCs do twist Scripture so. She failed in her Heavenly appointed duty by not ensuring that Jesus was with them when they left Jerusalem. How was she protecting Him then? She failed AGAIN when she did not realise that He would have good reason for what He had done. Having borne the Messiah she constantly failed to recognise that He was so. it was not a type heralding the Passion. It was indicating Who He was.
The statement "all truth is contained in scripture" (the false belief of reformationists) is logically not the eqivalence of "all scripture is truth" ( which is what we all believe).
If your church believed that all the Scripture was truth your views would be very different. You would not add on the 'added extras' like Mary, the saints, images, reserved sacrament, etc. They are a contradiction to Scripture. No one says 'all truth is contained in Scripture'. What we say is that all truth necessary for salvation and for our spiritual growth is contained in Scripture. The early church knew that which was why they rejected from the canon all non-Apostolic works.
What has? If the Scripture said that it would be wrong. My mathematical knowledge is not found in Scripture, and it is true. But as Isaiah said, 'to the word and to the testimony. If they speak not according to this word there is no truth in them'.
As Paul said to Timothy, 'from a child you have known the sacred writings which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (Nothing else needed). For all Scripture is God-breathed and is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness, that the man of God may be completely furnished unto every good work.
If the Scriptures can make us wise unto salvation and can COMPLETELY furnish us, what need have we of anything more?
I have just demonstrated that it is,
But which church? The original church which were the Orthodox churches (and which one of those?) The Roman Catholic Church which enforced itself on independent churches in the seventh and eight centuries by using political power and tried to do the same with the Orthodox churches and failed? The Jerusalem Catholic Church? The Greek Catholic Church? The Old Catholic Church? The Baptist church which was around at the beginning as a group of independent churches which baptised adults? And I could name many more, different reformed churches, different Catholic churches, different orthodox churches and so on. There is no one church (although there is one pretentious one0 . Paul was talking about the independent churches which were in submission to the Apostles. So clearly the true church is the one that submits to the Apostolic teaching as found in the Scriptures, MY CHURCH Lol
I have never heard such unadulterated rubbish. Whether something is true is not determined by the source itself. It is determined by those competent to judge, such as God, Jesus Christ, and the Apostles. The Bible is THE WORD OF GOD. As such it supersedes all else and is superior to all else, and is the only RELIABLE source of spiritual truth..
AND especially by writing down the truth in the New Testament Scripture. Peter called Paul's letters SCRIPTURE. God inspired the NT Scriptures because he knew how quickly oral tradition can become ORAL LIES. The early church knew it also and judged everything by the Scriptures. They sought to prove their position by the Scriptures. They excluded from them anything that did not have an Apostolic source.
I respect and admire the real Mary, who was both godly and weak and sinful, but came through in the end. I do not admire the goddess that you try to turn Mary into. As Jesus said, those who heeded God's words were more blessed than she.
You speak and believe such rubbish that it is almost unbelievable. The Lord's prayer in Scripture does not say 'keep free from temptation to sin.' It says, 'do not lead us into testing'. God does not lead into temptation. But He does lead us into testing.
Mary was not full of grace. Scripture nowhere says that she was. She was highly favoured because she had been chosen to be the mother of the Messiah. God's 'grace' was in her belly. It indicated that she was bearing the Messiah. It said nothing about her spiritual life in which like all of us she failed. She rebuked Jesus for doing what was God's will. She disobeyed Him at Cana. She tried to hinder His Messianic ministry. We do not hear of her supporting Him until she finally realised the truth at the resurrection. YOUR Mary is a mythical goddess unknown to Scripture.
Scripture nowhere says that she was full of grace. She was engraced as all true Christians are engraced (Eph 1.6). I am totally dependent on His grace which is at work within me and I have Jesus Christ within me as have all TRUE Christians . The LORD is also with me and with all those who are His. Mary was no different from other godly people.
You should of course note that Elizabeth's words were not inspired. We simply have inspired Scripture telling us what she said in her enthusiasm. It carries no theological authority. And a Jesus said those who are truly blessed, in contrast to Mary, are those who hear the word of God and keep it.
God does do what He says. What He does not do is what the Roman Catholic church says. My God is in fact superior to yours. He does not have to lean on the Roman Catholic church.
Lol you RCs do twist Scripture so. She failed in her Heavenly appointed duty by not ensuring that Jesus was with them when they left Jerusalem. How was she protecting Him then? She failed AGAIN when she did not realise that He would have good reason for what He had done. Having borne the Messiah she constantly failed to recognise that He was so. it was not a type heralding the Passion. It was indicating Who He was.
If Mary was sinless why did she say this?
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And Mary said:
“My soul glorifies the Lord
[SUP]47[/SUP] and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
[SUP]48 [/SUP]for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,
[SUP]49 [/SUP] for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
[SUP]50 [/SUP]His mercy extends to those who fear him,
from generation to generation.
[SUP]51 [/SUP]He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.
[SUP]52 [/SUP]He has brought down rulers from their thrones
but has lifted up the humble.
[SUP]53 [/SUP]He has filled the hungry with good things
but has sent the rich away empty.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]He has helped his servant Israel,
remembering to be merciful
[SUP]55 [/SUP]to Abraham and his descendants forever,
just as he promised our ancestors.”
[SUP]56 [/SUP]Mary stayed with Elizabeth for about three months and then returned home.
How can there be any TRUTH in the World that has been corrupted by sin? It cannot have any Spiritual Truths because the World HAS been corrupted by the sin of Adam and Eve!
John 1:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
The Truth comes ONLY through Jesus Christ, NOT from the Corrupted Catholic Church!
John 14:5-6
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Jesus is the ONLY Way to enter into Heaven!
Jesus IS the Truth!
Jesus IS the Life!
It does NOT say Jesus and Mary like the evil Catholics teach!
John 14:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
The Spirit of TRUTH! If the Holy Spirit IS the Spirit of Truth then why would anyone need to listen to the Evil Catholics who are Hell bound?
John 16:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into ALL the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
If the Holy Spirit has ALL the Truth then the Evil Catholics have NO Truth! Only that which the Holy Spirit says is the Truth!
Romans 3:9-17
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are ALL under sin.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is NONE righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is NONE who understands; There is NONE who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have ALL turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is NONE who does good, no, not one."
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under their lips";
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Destruction and misery are in their ways;
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And the way of peace they have not known."
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for ALL HAVE SINNED and fall short of the glory of God
Everybody is a sinner! Mary was a sinner! Therefore teaching that Mary was sinless is a lie!
Did you corrupted Catholics know that a lying tongue is an abomination to Jesus Christ? That Jesus Christ HATES a lying tongue?
Proverbs 6:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP] These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood
Romans 2:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP] but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the TRUTH, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.
Teaching that Mary is sinless will bring wrath and fury upon you from God. Is this what you corrupted Catholics want? Are you Catholics so corrupted that you are willing to face the Wrath and Fury of God just to Worship Mary as your God?
John 1:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
The Truth comes ONLY through Jesus Christ, NOT from the Corrupted Catholic Church!
John 14:5-6
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Jesus is the ONLY Way to enter into Heaven!
Jesus IS the Truth!
Jesus IS the Life!
It does NOT say Jesus and Mary like the evil Catholics teach!
John 14:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
The Spirit of TRUTH! If the Holy Spirit IS the Spirit of Truth then why would anyone need to listen to the Evil Catholics who are Hell bound?
John 16:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into ALL the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
If the Holy Spirit has ALL the Truth then the Evil Catholics have NO Truth! Only that which the Holy Spirit says is the Truth!
Romans 3:9-17
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are ALL under sin.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is NONE righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is NONE who understands; There is NONE who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have ALL turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is NONE who does good, no, not one."
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under their lips";
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Destruction and misery are in their ways;
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And the way of peace they have not known."
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for ALL HAVE SINNED and fall short of the glory of God
Everybody is a sinner! Mary was a sinner! Therefore teaching that Mary was sinless is a lie!
Did you corrupted Catholics know that a lying tongue is an abomination to Jesus Christ? That Jesus Christ HATES a lying tongue?
Proverbs 6:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP] These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood
Romans 2:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP] but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the TRUTH, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.
Teaching that Mary is sinless will bring wrath and fury upon you from God. Is this what you corrupted Catholics want? Are you Catholics so corrupted that you are willing to face the Wrath and Fury of God just to Worship Mary as your God?