"It is finished." What is the "it?"

[dcontroversal]

AMen.

Thats why Paul looked like a God fearing person as Saul. But actually became one and walked like one as Paul.

The law did its job as schoolmaster once God opened his eyes (by closing them in blindness)

No doubt and SAUL became PAUL...a new name in Christ for sure......a new life as well......was dead...now alive forever....!

 

[kennethcadwell]

that is true, why? Because they have never been born again. They are STILL dead in trespasses and sins.

But even after your saved, you still can not live up to the guidelines God demands (the law) thus apart from Gods saving grace you would still be dead in sin

thats the part you fail to realize, and why you have yet to repent.



even if they are born again they can not live up to the guideline required by the law. so they would still be dead, walking in the spirit or not.

Walking in the spirit allows them to be blessed, It can not save them, or they would still be under law and condemned, because they still can not live up to Gods standard.




yep. because no one can love until God loves them, proving if they do not have loved, they have NEVER BEEN SAVED.

But using that to support your works based, Gospel from satan, which is no gospel at all, is not going to help you.

when are you going to repent? And seek Gods gift of eternal life? and stop trying to work for it ken?

Wrong as I do know we alone can not live up to God's standards, which is why I thank God that I have the Holy Spirit in me because I do not lean on myself. I lean on Him and He guides me and keeps me walking properly, if I sin that failure falls on me, and therefore I confess to the Lord to forgive me for my disobedience.

You are completely wrong on the second part that walking in the Spirit is not a part of the saving process in a believers life, as Apostle Paul says clearly their is no condemnation in those who walk in the Spirit. (Romans 8:1)
If you say you have faith in the Lord, but continue to walk in the flesh then you are still under the law and the condemnation that comes along with it. You can not serve God and serve the flesh both and have eternal life.....

I have repented of my sins, and continue to pray to God continuously to be forgiven of any sins I have done recently as the bible does say confess still has to be made for future sins to receive the Lord's remission for them. This is not excusing them as you have falsely claim, as this is following the words of God to admit your sins to Him and how we have been disobedient to His ways.

A person can not go and continue to live in complete disobedience to Him everyday and have salvation.
And Paul, Peter, James, and Jude all give examples that if one does not continue in the faith they do not end up with salvation. Even James says if one walks away back to a sinful lifestyle, if they are brought back to the Lord then their soul will be saved. Showing that when they walked away from the Lord they no longer had eternal life coming to them.

 

[tribesman]

well it is true, Or when Jesus said it is finished he lied.

Copeland? I listen to the word. not men. And have never listened to copepland.

How can I be made alive, while I am DEAAD in my tresspasses and sin, if Jesus did not die the death I was suffering (spiritual)

Glad that you pass on Copeland, can't cope that one. Other than that, you are taking stuff way too far, and it's not the first time it happens. Jesus was without sin and did no sin even He yet became sin for our sake (2Cor.5:21). He did not die as Adam did. You ought to be careful with blank statements such as "Jesus died spiritually" or at least explain carefully what you mean with it as you say so.

 

[PeterJens]

if you adf the work of water baptism to the gospel. you are teaching works.

Adam was saved by God symbolically covering his nakedness.

His life changed back to God then.

God must change us, we can not change ourselves enough to make ourself acceptable to God. that is heresy,, and the work of satan.

Sorry, I got to laugh. Baptism is merely the outward ceremony symbolising an inward change. I am quoting Peter preaching in Acts. I am not a sacramentalist.

What is interesting is the basics are not easily agreed on, but obviously this demonstrates the variety of peoples experiences and how many stand outside while not entering into the reality.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Sorry, I got to laugh. Baptism is merely the outward ceremony symbolising an inward change. I am quoting Peter preaching in Acts. I am not a sacramentalist.

What is interesting is the basics are not easily agreed on, but obviously this demonstrates the variety of peoples experiences and how many stand outside while not entering into the reality.

And actually baptism is given more then one standard/meaning in the bible....
It is said to be needed to receive remission of sins, it is a sign of a clean conscious, and it is how we are buried in death to sin through Christ. Paul and Peter both touch on each of these subjects, and Peter makes a point in Acts 10:47 that no man can forbid it because this was commanded by the Lord Jesus Christ. And Jesus said His words are not His own, but come from the Father in heaven, so to me if somebody refuses to be baptized and tells others not to as well they are disobeying God....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wrong as I do know we alone can not live up to God's standards, which is why I thank God that I have the Holy Spirit in me because I do not lean on myself. I lean on Him and He guides me and keeps me walking properly, if I sin that failure falls on me, and therefore I confess to the Lord to forgive me for my disobedience.

You are completely wrong on the second part that walking in the Spirit is not a part of the saving process in a believers life, as Apostle Paul says clearly their is no condemnation in those who walk in the Spirit. (Romans 8:1)
If you say you have faith in the Lord, but continue to walk in the flesh then you are still under the law and the condemnation that comes along with it. You can not serve God and serve the flesh both and have eternal life.....

I have repented of my sins, and continue to pray to God continuously to be forgiven of any sins I have done recently as the bible does say confess still has to be made for future sins to receive the Lord's remission for them. This is not excusing them as you have falsely claim, as this is following the words of God to admit your sins to Him and how we have been disobedient to His ways.

A person can not go and continue to live in complete disobedience to Him everyday and have salvation.
And Paul, Peter, James, and Jude all give examples that if one does not continue in the faith they do not end up with salvation. Even James says if one walks away back to a sinful lifestyle, if they are brought back to the Lord then their soul will be saved. Showing that when they walked away from the Lord they no longer had eternal life coming to them.

no, ken, I do not believe you have God in you, I may be wrong, but from what you are preaching, I do not see how.

The holy spirit is a gift. your trying to earn it. You have not learned from the law. because you somehow think you are above the law, and have fulfilled it in your life. or you would never think you were saved at any point in your life. you would always understand how condemned you are by the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Glad that you pass on Copeland, can't cope that one. Other than that, you are taking stuff way too far, and it's not the first time it happens. Jesus was without sin and did no sin even He yet became sin for our sake (2Cor.5:21). He did not die as Adam did. You ought to be careful with blank statements such as "Jesus died spiritually" or at least explain carefully what you mean with it as you say so.

I did explain it.

the relationship with God and adam was broken the moment he died because of sin. If Christ did not suffer the same fate, adam would never be spiritually restored.

God the father and holy spirit forsook (departed from) christ when my sin was placed on his body, thus he died, and this pain was so sever, he cried out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry, I got to laugh. Baptism is merely the outward ceremony symbolising an inward change. I am quoting Peter preaching in Acts. I am not a sacramentalist.

theni misunderstood you. when I see repent and be baptised, your going to get a response. But I would never say repent and be baptised the only ones who ever say that are baptismal regenerationalists.

and I am glad you understand spirit baptism is what saves us, not water.

What is interesting is the basics are not easily agreed on, but obviously this demonstrates the variety of peoples experiences and how many stand outside while not entering into the reality.

because like ken here, they stand on self and what they do or do not do. and do not stand on Christ and what he did.

 

[kennethcadwell]

no, ken, I do not believe you have God in you, I may be wrong, but from what you are preaching, I do not see how.

The holy spirit is a gift. your trying to earn it. You have not learned from the law. because you somehow think you are above the law, and have fulfilled it in your life. or you would never think you were saved at any point in your life. you would always understand how condemned you are by the law.

False baseless allegations once again that I have refuted and rebuked for doing before, and this now makes another time I have to do this. By you continuing doing this is a showing of self righteousness....


I never said I fulfilled the law, as what I said is the fruits of the Holy Spirit fulfills the law through me by having me walk in love. Jesus and Paul both expounded on this how love fulfills the law, because love does no wrong to others. How do you transgress the law if the Holy Spirit has you walk in love ???

The law was made for those who transgress it as Paul and John both touched on this, and also said Christ can not deny Himself. So if a person is letting the Holy Spirit control their life then they can not sin because the Lord can not deny His own teachings......With man alone keeping the standards is impossible, but with God all things are possible....
If you still claim it is impossible for the Holy Spirit to mold a person to walk in the fruits which by love fulfills the law by upholding it as Paul showed. Then you are still weak in the faith and just like the disciples under Christ who kept questioning Him saying how, and He responding to them calling them men of little faith. Because they still had not put their full trust in Him, and if they had they would have believed all things are possible...........(Mark 9:23)

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Can we please have just one thread on this board that doesn't deteriorate into an irrational "grace v. law" brawl? Note, I said "please."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

False baseless allegations once again that I have refuted and rebuked for doing before, and this now makes another time I have to do this. By you continuing doing this is a showing of self righteousness....


I never said I fulfilled the law, as what I said is the fruits of the Holy Spirit fulfills the law through me by having me walk in love. Jesus and Paul both expounded on this how love fulfills the law, because love does no wrong to others. How do you transgress the law if the Holy Spirit has you walk in love ???

The law was made for those who transgress it as Paul and John both touched on this, and also said Christ can not deny Himself. So if a person is letting the Holy Spirit control their life then they can not sin because the Lord can not deny His own teachings......With man alone keeping the standards is impossible, but with God all things are possible....
If you still claim it is impossible for the Holy Spirit to mold a person to walk in the fruits which by love fulfills the law by upholding it as Paul showed. Then you are still weak in the faith and just like the disciples under Christ who kept questioning Him saying how, and He responding to them calling them men of little faith. Because they still had not put their full trust in Him, and if they had they would have believed all things are possible...........(Mark 9:23)

you do every time you speak.

You deny the HS can make you walk in love, he can fail (because you claim we can stop following the spirit and lose salvation) thus you are still inserting yourself in the equation. Everytime you use the word I, You are preaching works.

you do not think the law condemns you, because you claim you can walk in a way you do not break the law. which is impossible. you can not do that 24/7. no person has ever been able to go a 24 hour period without thinking of self at least once during that day,

 

[kennethcadwell]

theni misunderstood you. when I see repent and be baptised, your going to get a response. But I would never say repent and be baptised the only ones who ever say that are baptismal regenerationalists.

and I am glad you understand spirit baptism is what saves us, not water.



because like ken here, they stand on self and what they do or do not do. and do not stand on Christ and what he did.

" Get behind me satan "
(Matthew 16:23)

 

[kennethcadwell]

you do every time you speak.

You deny the HS can make you walk in love, he can fail (because you claim we can stop following the spirit and lose salvation) thus you are still inserting yourself in the equation. Everytime you use the word I, You are preaching works.

you do not think the law condemns you, because you claim you can walk in a way you do not break the law. which is impossible. you can not do that 24/7. no person has ever been able to go a 24 hour period without thinking of self at least once during that day,

I do not claim nothing !!!
The bible shows that many will walk away from the faith and not end up with eternal life.
Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, John, Jude, and the writer of Hebrews all show this......................


What do you think, "save a soul from death," means ???


Hint: This is not speaking of physical death in the flesh...............

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not claim nothing !!!
The bible shows that many will walk away from the faith and not end up with eternal life.
Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, John, Jude, and the writer of Hebrews all show this......................


What do you think, "save a soul from death," means ???


Hint: This is not speaking of physical death in the flesh...............

lol..

The bible says I am saved by grace through faith not works.

Your claim I am saved by working (walking in the spirit, getting water batized etc etc) and that I can do alot of great works, and still lose my salvation.

Who do I trust?

You, who are puffing up your own works.

Or God. Who claims I can not save myself no matter WHAT I DO?

The prodigal son was dead, but he was still his fathers child. He never stopped being the fathers son.

in order for me to as you claim, lose my salvation, I would stop being my fathers son. God does not claim we can ever do this, he claims once you are his son, he will leave the flock to come get you and return you to the flock.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

" Get behind me satan "
(Matthew 16:23)

You better watch what you say, Satan is already pulling you to eternal damnation by what you preach, if he gets behind you, he will just push you.

I am condemning your gospel. not you

I have no idea if you were ever saved or not. I can just go by what you preach now.

 

[dcontroversal]

Can we please have just one thread on this board that doesn't deteriorate into an irrational "grace v. law" brawl? Note, I said "please."

Good luck with that for sure....

 

[kennethcadwell]

lol..

The bible says I am saved by grace through faith not works.

Your claim I am saved by working (walking in the spirit, getting water batized etc etc) and that I can do alot of great works, and still lose my salvation.

Who do I trust?

You, who are puffing up your own works.

Or God. Who claims I can not save myself no matter WHAT I DO?

The prodigal son was dead, but he was still his fathers child. He never stopped being the fathers son.

in order for me to as you claim, lose my salvation, I would stop being my fathers son. God does not claim we can ever do this, he claims once you are his son, he will leave the flock to come get you and return you to the flock.

The bible says not by our own personal works to earn salvation, but works done through the fruits of the Holy Spirit are proof of one being saved. No good fruit produced through us by the Spirit, which shows in our outer actions and speech shows not born again or no obedience to the Spirit. No proof = No salvation.............

Matthew 7:19
"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

And you are still interjecting what is not be said in the prodigal son, as it is not talking about physical attributes.
It is speaking of spiritual life and spiritual death, as long as one continues to walk with the Father they have spiritual life, but if they walk away and not walk with Him then they are spiritually dead headed to the lake of fire.......

You better watch what you say, Satan is already pulling you to eternal damnation by what you preach, if he gets behind you, he will just push you.

Another condemning remark in which we are not to do to others.
And get behind me satan as the Lord said, means to take yourself and your baseless allegations of accusing another and stop what you are doing. Satan is the accuser of the brethren which is what you consistantly do to me, is accuse me of something I do not do.............

 

[kennethcadwell]

Can we please have just one thread on this board that doesn't deteriorate into an irrational "grace v. law" brawl? Note, I said "please."

That is all I have ever asked for Warrior, yet a few constantly want to jump on me on things that are past instead of just moving on. Therefore by the word of God I have to rebuke them...................


I want a friendly debate without name calling, baseless allegations, condemning remarks, but some just can not seem to stop doing those things.............

 

[dcontroversal]

That is all I have ever asked for Warrior, yet a few constantly want to jump on me on things that are past instead of just moving on. Therefore by the word of God I have to rebuke them...................


I want a friendly debate without name calling, baseless allegations, condemning remarks, but some just can not seem to stop doing those things.............[/QUOTE]

Just a thought.......is not the bolded above accusatory in nature........? And what does his remark have to do with your accusations?

Satan is the accuser of the brethren which is what you consistently do to me, is accuse me of something

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The bible says not by our own personal works to earn salvation, but works done through the fruits of the Holy Spirit are proof of one being saved. No good fruit produced through us by the Spirit, which shows in our outer actions and speech shows not born again or no obedience to the Spirit. No proof = No salvation.............

Matthew 7:19
"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

And you are still interjecting what is not be said in the prodigal son, as it is not talking about physical attributes.
It is speaking of spiritual life and spiritual death, as long as one continues to walk with the Father they have spiritual life, but if they walk away and not walk with Him then they are spiritually dead headed to the lake of fire.......

you still have YOU in the equation. Your so stuck on YOU, that you can;t see Christ.

YOU have to do this. YOU have to do that.

That is works.

Grace is not YOU doing this or that, Grace is GOD DID THIS.

The people God saved DO GOOD WORKS. there is no question of if they will do it, THEY DO IT. You deny this, because you say people can do good works and STILL not be saved. Thus your STILL preaching YOU DO THIS< YOU DO THAT.

Thats self salvation bud, not salvation of God.

Another condemning remark in which we are not to do to others.
And get behind me satan as the Lord said, means to take yourself and your baseless allegations of accusing another and stop what you are doing. Satan is the accuser of the brethren which is what you consistantly do to me, is accuse me of something I do not do.............

I am not accusing my brethren, I am accusing a false teacher.

Again, I am condemning your gospel. not you. I have no idea if you were ever saved, Only God does that.

Luckily for you. Salvation is not based on what you or I do or think, If God saved you at one time, he will keep his promise.

yet here you go committing a sin, yet denying it. You better beg Gods forgiveness and use first john 1: 9, You may have just lost your salvation.