A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?

[tribesman]

Yes, well there's about ten heresies or so that threatened the early church with Gnosticism being the greatest threat. And in Gnosticism, the female presence was prominent in its very theology. Gnostic sects allowed women to serve in the highest ecclesiastical roles. As these pagan women began to enter small Christian house churches which began themselves to grow exponentially; some couldn't resist marrying their pagan philosophies with Christian theology and seeking authority to teach it in these orthodox assemblies!

That's how Christian Gnosticism came into being with ancient manuscripts from the period revealing many new syncretic heretical "theologies" such as heresy of the Holy Spirit being female and women being light-and wisdom-bearers of the Divine in feminine form, for example.

Orthodox Christian (e.g. Catholic) assemblies were opposing the activity of women in the heretical sects such as Gnosticism, Montanism, etc... because they opposed the heresy and heretical sects themselves. It was NOT because they opposed women.

If you're looking for actual historical citations showing this, they're available. It's late here so I'll have to dig them up for you but a few come to mind immediately. Tertullian (160-220) identified the false teaching at Ephesus as an early form of Gnosticism; for example, describing and denouncing the goddess Artemis syncretistic heresy some women were introducing using Paul’s own expression of “myths and endless genealogies” adding, “which the inspired apostle [Paul] by anticipation condemned, whilst the seeds of heresy were even then shooting forth" (see Against the Valentinians by Tertullian). So did Ireneaus and Eusebius.

This is a valid and important input you have made here, with a good historical overview. This sort of "proto-feminism" was prevalent in these heretic sects (and still are among their modern day successors).

 

[Utah]

-


The invitation is indeed to all.

†. Rev 22:17 . .The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears
say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him
take the free gift of the water of life.

But nevertheless; according to the syntax of Christ's statement as per John
6:37; his acceptance of people is limited to those whom his Father gives
him. All the rest are rejected no matter how hard, nor how sincere, they
seek him. This is a divine protocol that cannot be circumvented no matter
how sneaky that scofflaws are at trying to get past it. No; it's sneak-proof,
Devil-proof, intellectual-proof, disbeliever-proof, and Utah-proof.




I do not care to be the friend of someone who insinuates that Jesus Christ
doesn't know what he's talking about.

==================================

Jesus is my Friend. I won't lose any sleep being rejected by you because I embrace His grace.

Your Calvinistic arrogance has rotted your soul. Ba bye!

 

[WebersHome]

-

Your Calvinistic arrogance

Stereotyping, and type casting, are very effective propaganda tools for
manipulating people's mental knee-jerk reflexes. For example:

So and so is a liberal; therefore he is eo ipso wrong.

So and so is a fundie; therefore he is eo ipso wrong.

So and so is a dispensationalist; therefore he is eo ipso wrong.

So and so is pre-trib; therefore he is eo ipso wrong.

So and so is post-trib; therefore he is eo ipso wrong.

So and so is a Wesleyan; therefore he is eo ipso wrong.

So and so is a Calvinist; therefore he is eo ipso wrong.

So and so is an Arab; therefore he is eo ipso a terrorist.

So and so is Black; therefore he is eo ipso dangerous.

So and so is White; therefore he is eo ipso a racist.

So and so is a man; therefore he is eo ipso abusive.

So and so is a female EO; therefore she is eo ipso the B-word.

etc, etc, etc

=============================================

 

[Joidevivre]

I have not read all comments, but I just came across Jesus' statement when the disciples complained about the woman who ministered to him through pouring oil on his feet. He said "Leave her alone".

And I beg the churches today to "let her alone" to minister freely. Let her pour that costly ointment. Let her give voice to all that is crying out within her, that the Spirit of the Lord is moving in her heart for her to say and do.

 

[pwrnJC]

nor have you ever read in the BIBLE where a woman was called to be a starlette, a car driver, a performer, only because, several thousand years ago..females had NO rights, period..and most still do not have in the MIddle East..and guess what..most of the BIBLE occured in the MIddle East.. YOu have to take into consideration the era and places and times. When the Holy spirit moves upon someone, it is not just on the males of society. I have known many wonderful awesome holy spirit filled ladies who preach, teach, hold crusades, testify (like Phillip's daughters) and more. So what? have you limited the Holy Spirit as to whom YOU think should be used mightily by GOD?

I agree...for I too have met many powerful Holy SPIRIT filled females..who far exceed many males in their spiritual growth. Yes, men should be the spiritual leaders of their families..however, due to all kinds of reasons, they do not live up to their own standards, much less GOD's, so why not have a lady step up to the plate and be a spiritual leader, instead of having NO one? Why not accept the fact that there can be high and mightly females, and even little children that can lead..and then let GOD sort it all out in the next life.

 

[WebersHome]

-

I have not read all comments

Paul's rules are Christ's rules.

†. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.

†. 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord
Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please
God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments
we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

Therefore, refusal to comply with Paul is all the same as refusal to comply
with Christ, and refusal to comply with Christ is all the same as refusal to
comply with his Father. It's a ripple effect all the way to the top.

†. Luke 10:16 . .Whoever listens to you; listens to me. Whoever rejects you;
rejects me. And whoever rejects me; rejects the one who sent me.

Here are some of Christ's rules; viz: his Father's rules.

†. 1Cor 11:3 . . But I would have you know, that the head of every man is
Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is
God.

†. 1Cor 11:7-9 . . For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch
as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was
the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

†. 1Cor 14:34-35 . . Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is
not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under
obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask
their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

†. 1Tim 2:11-13 . . Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I
suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be
in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

It's very dangerous to disobey Christ.

†. John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does
not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

=============================================

 

[WebersHome]

-

It's very dangerous to disobey Christ.

Not only is it dangerous, but it's also disloyal.

†. John 14:15 . . If you love me, you will comply with what I command.

†. John 14:21 . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one
who loves me.

†. John 14:23-24 . . If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching . . He who
does not love me will not obey my teaching.

†. John 15:14 . .You are my friends if you do as I wish.

This is as good a time as any to bring up the fact that Christ is not only a
savior, and not only the head of his church; but also a monarch. Well;
monarchs typically do not condone insurrection in their realms. In point of
fact, one of the scariest parables that Christ ever told ends like this:

†. Luke 19:27 . . But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want
me to reign over them, and slay them before me.

The sweet little baby away in a manger is very capable of smashing his
opponents; and in point of fact, according to the 2nd Psalm; is set on it.

It amazes me sometimes at the number of people I encounter wearing a
Christian name tag who refuse to let Christ tell them what to do. They prefer
to be Christians on their own terms instead of his terms as if they were the
head of his body instead of him. Forget about women usurping male
authority: that's small potatoes compared to the number of Christians
usurping Christ's authority.

============================================

 

[Utah]

Those who are causing stumbling blocks better beware! Take out your Bibles and re-read them.

Case in point, John 6:37 does not mean the following:

But nevertheless; according to the syntax of Christ's statement as per John
6:37; his acceptance of people is limited to those whom his Father gives
him. All the rest are rejected no matter how hard, nor how sincere, they
seek him. This is a divine protocol that cannot be circumvented no matter
how sneaky that scofflaws are at trying to get past it. No; it's sneak-proof,
Devil-proof, intellectual-proof, disbeliever-proof, and Utah-proof.

What a load of satanic garbage. This is a perfect example of modern day Pharisee nonsense shutting out the Kingdom of Heaven against man.

Here's John 6:40:
For this is the will of my Father: that EVERYONE who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

But I digress, according to Pharisee WebersHome, Jesus is going to flat out reject lots and lots of people who sincerely, earnestly seek Him.

Hmmm, believe God, or believe Pharisee WebersHome? Decisions! Decisions!

 

[AuphirahQueen]

I believe your class is awesome for your students!

 

[seriouslyman]

Cannot happen...if a women has a ? about the bible she just goes to her husband. It is that simple accourding to the bible

 

[WebersHome]

-

if a women has a ? about the bible she just goes to her husband.

These days it isn't unusual to find a number of single moms in adult Bible
classes. I think that the safest course of action for those moms is to take
their questions to a competent woman in church who knows what she's
talking about. To my knowledge there is no prohibition against Christian
women leading and/or teaching Christian women.

==========================================

 

[phil112]

.................................But I digress, according to Pharisee WebersHome, Jesus is going to flat out reject lots and lots of people who sincerely, earnestly seek Him.

Hmmm, believe God, or believe Pharisee WebersHome? Decisions! Decisions!

Well son, you better make up your mind! What if Weber is repeating words from the bible? Hmmm?

Doesn't matter how "sincere and earnest" one is, if they aren't willing to set self and the world aside they ain't gonna make it.

Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Does that sound to you like He's going to reject those that are "sincere"?

 

[Utah]

Well son, you better make up your mind! What if Weber is repeating words from the bible? Hmmm?

Doesn't matter how "sincere and earnest" one is, if they aren't willing to set self and the world aside they ain't gonna make it.

Does that sound to you like He's going to reject those that are "sincere"?

Easy, Daddy O. That's not what Pharisee webersmack it talking about. He's just vomiting hatred on to people who rejoice in their faith in Jesus Christ. And regarding the Scripture you shared, Jesus is talking about people who deny His Divinity like the Pharisees of His time.

God's grace that is in Jesus Christ is sufficient. Not my words, but His. Rejoice!

 

[phil112]

Easy, Daddy O. That's not what Pharisee webersmack it talking about. He's just vomiting hatred on to people who rejoice in their faith in Jesus Christ. And regarding the Scripture you shared, Jesus is talking about people who deny His Divinity like the Pharisees of His time.

God's grace that is in Jesus Christ is sufficient. Not my words, but His. Rejoice!

Only my dogs are allowed to call me daddy O.
"Vomiting hatred"? Friend, that's an accusation. Can you support it with facts? I don't follow every thread, nor do I even come back and see reply's to my posts sometimes, but from what I have seen weber, nor any others here, spew hatred.

 

[WebersHome]

-
It's been my experience that women who bitterly accuse men of misogyny
typically have an issue themselves with misandry.

†. Matt 7:3-5 . . And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's
eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say
to your brother: "Let me take the speck out of your eye" and behold, the log
is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye,
and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

=================================

 

[SaintJoeNow]

If it becomes necessary for a woman to take the lead in a ministry, that should only be temporary untill a man is found for the official office according to Biblical qualifications, and while temorary the woman is not supposed to be authoritative over men in the church. The Bible is clear on this. Church offices are to be filled by men.

 

[cubanito]

A woman may pastor a Church when only women and children are in attendance. As soon as a woman takes a position giving her authority over a man she has defied God directly by repeating the Genesis 3. Also, please explain to me how a woman can be the husband of one wife outside of the insanity that is LGTBQQRSXYZ?

Priscilla spoke to Apollos WITH her husband and privately.

Phoebe was a SERVANT not a leader:
NASB Romans 16:16 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a [SUP][a][/SUP]servant of the church which is at Cenchrea; [SUP]2 [/SUP]that you receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the [SUP][b][/SUP]saints, and that you help her in whatever matter she may have need of you; for she herself has also been a helper of many, [SUP][c][/SUP]and of myself as well. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who for my life risked their own necks, to whom not only do I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles; [SUP]5 [/SUP]also greet the church that is in their house. Greet Epaenetus, my beloved, who is the first convert to Christ from [SUP][d][/SUP]Asia. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Greet Mary, who has worked hard for you. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Greet Andronicus and [SUP][e][/SUP]Junias, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the apostles, who also [SUP][f][/SUP]were in Christ before me.

Junias is mentioned as Priscilla with Andronichus Clearly Andronichus is a male name, even someone who has never studied Greek like me knows that "andro" is male.
1- So IF Junias is a woman, then she is operating as Priscilla, WITH her husband.
2- there are the 12 Apostles and the "sent ones" which is what the word apostle means. Being sent with a message does not necessarily grant one authority beyond delivering the message. It is irritating but the word apostle is not well defined outside context, and here the context is very general.
3- being outstanding among a group does not mean being of that group. American football players for the Green Bay Packers are generally "outstanding among the Green Bay citizens" even if they do not live in Green Bay.

And then Deborah, who was NOT the leader, who did not even want to go with Barak, but being practically forced into it by Barak's cowardice foretold he would lose his glory. And still it is Barak in the hall of heros of the faith, like Lot.

Anyway, if a Church is so small they can not properly pay for a male pastor, then any adult male who refuses to be appointed to the volunteered task should be excommunicated OR the Church should close it's doors. Because God said so.

There are places in the world where 2 or 3 gather in houses, sometimes because there are none others, and sometimes because of necessary secrecy to keep one's head on. God honors that. God does not honor a direct contradiction to His established order. A woman may be just as, or more capable than a man. Christ is no less God, Holy ect than the father Yet there is a hierarchical order even within the Trinity. Consider that again: even in the Eternal co-equal Trinity, there is an order, a ranking.
It is possible that Priscilla and Junia were more spiritual, intelligent, capable in every way than their husbands. They only speak to men WITH their husbands, so that they are in submission to the order established by God. Deborah may have judged, but she did not lead, and was dragged into co-leadership by Barak.

Otherwise, throw the Bible out and make up whatever you want.

JR

 

[Breeze7]

Hey. I have something ordained by god... A belly button. Why shouldn't women be pastors or leaders in the church? If you do the job stay true to your understanding of christ there is no reason why this shouldn't be happening.

 

[The_highwayman]

A woman may pastor a Church when only women and children are in attendance. As soon as a woman takes a position giving her authority over a man she has defied God directly by repeating the Genesis 3. Also, please explain to me how a woman can be the husband of one wife outside of the insanity that is LGTBQQRSXYZ?

Priscilla spoke to Apollos WITH her husband and privately.

Phoebe was a SERVANT not a leader:
NASB Romans 16:16 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a [SUP][a][/SUP]servant of the church which is at Cenchrea; [SUP]2 [/SUP]that you receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the [SUP][b][/SUP]saints, and that you help her in whatever matter she may have need of you; for she herself has also been a helper of many, [SUP][c][/SUP]and of myself as well. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who for my life risked their own necks, to whom not only do I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles; [SUP]5 [/SUP]also greet the church that is in their house. Greet Epaenetus, my beloved, who is the first convert to Christ from [SUP][d][/SUP]Asia. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Greet Mary, who has worked hard for you. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Greet Andronicus and [SUP][e][/SUP]Junias, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the apostles, who also [SUP][f][/SUP]were in Christ before me.

Junias is mentioned as Priscilla with Andronichus Clearly Andronichus is a male name, even someone who has never studied Greek like me knows that "andro" is male.
1- So IF Junias is a woman, then she is operating as Priscilla, WITH her husband.
2- there are the 12 Apostles and the "sent ones" which is what the word apostle means. Being sent with a message does not necessarily grant one authority beyond delivering the message. It is irritating but the word apostle is not well defined outside context, and here the context is very general.
3- being outstanding among a group does not mean being of that group. American football players for the Green Bay Packers are generally "outstanding among the Green Bay citizens" even if they do not live in Green Bay.

And then Deborah, who was NOT the leader, who did not even want to go with Barak, but being practically forced into it by Barak's cowardice foretold he would lose his glory. And still it is Barak in the hall of heros of the faith, like Lot.

Anyway, if a Church is so small they can not properly pay for a male pastor, then any adult male who refuses to be appointed to the volunteered task should be excommunicated OR the Church should close it's doors. Because God said so.

There are places in the world where 2 or 3 gather in houses, sometimes because there are none others, and sometimes because of necessary secrecy to keep one's head on. God honors that. God does not honor a direct contradiction to His established order. A woman may be just as, or more capable than a man. Christ is no less God, Holy ect than the father Yet there is a hierarchical order even within the Trinity. Consider that again: even in the Eternal co-equal Trinity, there is an order, a ranking.
It is possible that Priscilla and Junia were more spiritual, intelligent, capable in every way than their husbands. They only speak to men WITH their husbands, so that they are in submission to the order established by God. Deborah may have judged, but she did not lead, and was dragged into co-leadership by Barak.

Otherwise, throw the Bible out and make up whatever you want.

JR

So a judge of Israel was not a leader? Deborah was a judge and prophetess and as such had the very same authority as men Judges and Prophets of her time....

Your not just throwing out the Bible, you are outright lying about what it says...

 

[The_highwayman]

A woman may pastor a Church when only women and children are in attendance. As soon as a woman takes a position giving her authority over a man she has defied God directly by repeating the Genesis 3. Also, please explain to me how a woman can be the husband of one wife outside of the insanity that is LGTBQQRSXYZ?

Priscilla spoke to Apollos WITH her husband and privately.

Phoebe was a SERVANT not a leader:
NASB Romans 16:16 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a [SUP][a][/SUP]servant of the church which is at Cenchrea; [SUP]2 [/SUP]that you receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the [SUP][b][/SUP]saints, and that you help her in whatever matter she may have need of you; for she herself has also been a helper of many, [SUP][c][/SUP]and of myself as well. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who for my life risked their own necks, to whom not only do I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles; [SUP]5 [/SUP]also greet the church that is in their house. Greet Epaenetus, my beloved, who is the first convert to Christ from [SUP][d][/SUP]Asia. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Greet Mary, who has worked hard for you. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Greet Andronicus and [SUP][e][/SUP]Junias, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the apostles, who also [SUP][f][/SUP]were in Christ before me.

Junias is mentioned as Priscilla with Andronichus Clearly Andronichus is a male name, even someone who has never studied Greek like me knows that "andro" is male.
1- So IF Junias is a woman, then she is operating as Priscilla, WITH her husband.
2- there are the 12 Apostles and the "sent ones" which is what the word apostle means. Being sent with a message does not necessarily grant one authority beyond delivering the message. It is irritating but the word apostle is not well defined outside context, and here the context is very general.
3- being outstanding among a group does not mean being of that group. American football players for the Green Bay Packers are generally "outstanding among the Green Bay citizens" even if they do not live in Green Bay.

And then Deborah, who was NOT the leader, who did not even want to go with Barak, but being practically forced into it by Barak's cowardice foretold he would lose his glory. And still it is Barak in the hall of heros of the faith, like Lot.

Anyway, if a Church is so small they can not properly pay for a male pastor, then any adult male who refuses to be appointed to the volunteered task should be excommunicated OR the Church should close it's doors. Because God said so.

There are places in the world where 2 or 3 gather in houses, sometimes because there are none others, and sometimes because of necessary secrecy to keep one's head on. God honors that. God does not honor a direct contradiction to His established order. A woman may be just as, or more capable than a man. Christ is no less God, Holy ect than the father Yet there is a hierarchical order even within the Trinity. Consider that again: even in the Eternal co-equal Trinity, there is an order, a ranking.
It is possible that Priscilla and Junia were more spiritual, intelligent, capable in every way than their husbands. They only speak to men WITH their husbands, so that they are in submission to the order established by God. Deborah may have judged, but she did not lead, and was dragged into co-leadership by Barak.

Otherwise, throw the Bible out and make up whatever you want.

JR

Please show us where in the Bible it says that if church cannot find a man it should close its doors...