A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?

[notuptome]

First deacons are in Acts 6.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kaylagrl]

The OP asked if there is a need for pastors can a woman be a pastor.The answer is yes.If God can use a donkey to preach a sermon he can surely use women.If there is a man to do the job great,if not and a woman feels called by all means fill the need.

 

[fredjames]

Then JESUS said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.” Going a little farther, He fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from Me. Yet not as I will, but as You will.” [Matthew 26:38-39]

JESUS withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, “Father, if You are willing, take this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Your will be done.” An angel from heaven appeared to Him and strengthened Him. And being in anguish, He prayed more earnestly, and His sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground. [Luke 22:41-44]

About eight days after JESUS said this, He took Peter, John and James with Him and went up onto a mountain to pray. As He was praying, the appearance of His face changed, and His clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with JESUS. They spoke about His departure, which He was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem. Peter and His companions were very sleepy, but when they became fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men standing with Him. [Luke 9:28-32]

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed. [John 17:1]

I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer [1 Timothy 2:8]

Yes true this what JESUS did and thank you, but what did JESUS teach and commanded HIS disciples not to do when they pray?

This is because in reference to what HE said to HIS disciples and for HIS disciples to 'practice' and 'abide' them the same and give the same teachings and commandments to those after them, the churches, because HE says to all who believe in HIM through them that;

"Those who 'keep' My commandments truly love Me. And those who do not 'keep' My commandments do not truly love me."

"Everyone then who hears these teachings of Mine and does them, are liken onto 'a wise man' ........................................... And everyone then who hears these teaching of Mine and does not them, are liken onto 'a foolish man' ................................................................."

"If you 'abide' in my words, truly you are My disciples and then you will know the truth and the truth shall 'set you free."

So we know now what JESUS require of us, to 'keep' HIS commandments, HIS teaching, HIS words, and shall we please continue based on HIS testimony/word and not men or women.

Thank you.

 

[fredjames]

fredjames, though I can't discern whether or not you are trying to coax me into some form of trick question, God does know your motive. I do know that you by your own words in your previous comments that you do not accept a woman's teaching so why would you ask me now to "teach" you what posture one should assume for prayer in church?

Let me ask you, what position do you take? Did Yahweh put on your heart to teach me? If so, I'm listening.

I will tell you this, when the Holy Spirit tells me to kneel, I am on my knees! When the Holy Spirit tells me to lay prostrate, I'm on my face! When the Holy Spirit tells me to look up, I look up! When He says lift up your hands, my hands are up! When Yahweh tells me to bow my head and be still, that I do! If the pastor tells that entire congregation to do a thing and the Holy Spirit tells me to do something otherwise, I will obey God's Voice! I fear God, not in the sense that I will incite His wrath, but because I know He says something for a holy purpose!

I don't know the mind of God but I trust His ways. I don't call myself anything, not a teacher, not a pastor, not a deaconess, but God knows who I am in Him. I'm not cut from any honorable cloth, I have no degree in theology, I've never been to a seminary or had religious schooling. I've been discipled by many pastors, who all happened to be men of God, over the course of 30+ years.... but what has been the most influential of all was that I keep running out of resources and strength, I keep coming up short and am bankrupt of reason, I keep falling on my face in surrender and abandon my mind and even my hope of life to the Lord Jesus... and He keeps getting more glorious and mighty to me. If you really want to know a thing, I suggest you ask the Lord Himself. He is faithful to answer you. I know that for sure.

Dear VioletReigns, my position in witnessing is based on my testimony/word, that i as 'HIS unworthy servant liken who brings out from his Master's house, out of His 'treasure', what is New and what is Old'.

 

[notuptome]

The OP asked if there is a need for pastors can a woman be a pastor.The answer is yes.If God can use a donkey to preach a sermon he can surely use women.If there is a man to do the job great,if not and a woman feels called by all means fill the need.

God is able to do anything He pleases. God is under no obligation to use women as pastors. God is always able to provide men to do that which He has determined they are to do.

Too many today feel the call but the call is not from God. That applies to men as well as women.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kaylagrl]

God is able to do anything He pleases. God is under no obligation to use women as pastors. God is always able to provide men to do that which He has determined they are to do.

Too many today feel the call but the call is not from God. That applies to men as well as women.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You can't judge Gods call on someone elses life.There have times when men where not available and God used women.If the call isnt on their lives thats between them and God.God called me to ministry and singing as a youth.By the age of 16 I began to travel and did so for 20yrs. I spoke when I felt the spirit on me to speak.I am a very shy person so it was not easy for me to speak or sing in public.But I knew God called me to it.Not a doubt in my mind to this day.We save people saved,healed and marriages restored because we were faithful to the call.What are you {not you Roger I know your heart}doing with the call of God on your life? I suggest you get to doing the work God called you to do instead of judging others.

 

[fredjames]

I gave a neutral answer because the right answer is neutral.

A female quadriplegic in a wheelchair can pray in her wheelchair.

She can also preach, teach, prophesy, and pastor from her wheelchair.

I'm more interested in what Jesus said to a female disciple.

What to you suppose that is?

You can find the best answer in your bible, but I doubt you will.

Sadly. with all due respect to you, your testimony/word proves, you do not 'keep' JESUS's commandments.

JESUS said this to those who believe in HIM that;

"Those who 'keep' my commandments, truly love me. And those who do not 'keep' my commandments, truly do not love me."

 

[VioletReigns]

The OP asked if there is a need for pastors can a woman be a pastor.The answer is yes.If God can use a donkey to preach a sermon he can surely use women.If there is a man to do the job great,if not and a woman feels called by all means fill the need.

Sadly. with all due respect to you, your testimony/word proves, you do not 'keep' JESUS's commandments.
JESUS said this to those who believe in HIM that;
"Those who 'keep' my commandments, truly love me. And those who do not 'keep' my commandments, truly do not love me."

As kaylagrl reminds us, the OP is a question about women pastors. And as usual the thread got hijacked with yet another debate between grace and law.

And fredjames now wants us to believe that we can of our own will power obey the commandments. The same commandments and old covenant laws the Father God was so sure we couldn't keep that He sent His only Son Jesus to be crucified that we might be redeemed.

Jesus said that all the law and the prophets hang on these two things: Love one another and believe on Him alone for our salvation. And the only way you can those 2 things is if the Lord Jesus has dominion over your life. Because the Lord is the one doing the work in you by His Holy Spirit in you; you are not doing it of your own accord. Otherwise, you make His crucifixion in vain.

We now walk by faith, not by sight. It isn't by our might or power, but by God's Spirit. Hebrews chapter 11 tells us that it is by faith in God that we are made perfect. It is God doing a work in us and making us want to obey Him and God giving us the power to do a thing. It is all to God's glory, people.

Do you realize that when Jesus welcomes the "sheep" (as opposed to the goats) into heaven with the words, "Come, you blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you!", the righteous will reply, "Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?" DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS MEANS? The righteous were not even aware that they were doing works unto God. They had lived with their eyes on Jesus, not on themselves. The love of Jesus had poured out of their hearts onto the poor and the hungry and those in prison and they were not even aware that they were doing any righteous "work". They LOVED because it was JESUS' LOVE working through them!

Please understand what that means! The goats on the other hand tried to enter the kingdom by professing what THEY accomplished in Jesus' name. But Jesus said He did not know them because they were focused on their own works, their own obedience. They were not in a right relationship with Jesus. That's why He didn't know them. They were only aware of what they did. They made the Cross of Jesus of no effect.

Unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain who try to do anything, even if they think its according to His call. Unless Jesus is doing it through you, it's just wood, hay and stubble.

So the whole matter is: FAITH in JESUS ALONE!

 

[MarcR]

The OP asked if there is a need for pastors can a woman be a pastor.The answer is yes.If God can use a donkey to preach a sermon he can surely use women.If there is a man to do the job great,if not and a woman feels called by all means fill the need.

Kaylagrl,

We usually have very similar positions on most issues; so I am surprised to find myself debating with you on this.

God has, I believe, indicated that He wants the pastorate of the churches to be a male role . This desire on God's part has nothing to do with ability or availability, in both of which a woman may be superior to most men. The issue is accountability.

1 Ti 2:12-14
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
KJV

If a congregation is having difficulty finding a pastor, it is not only possible, but likely that God has a purpose in it; since He is undoubtedly able to supply the needs of a Church as easily as He supplies the needs of individuals. Rachel, because of God's revelation to her, thought she was acting in God's interest when she urged Jacob to deceive Isaac; but what she did was wrong. When God reveals his design; it is not up to us to have a better idea regardless how much ability we bring to its execution!

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I know everyone is just breathlessly waiting to hear my opinion on this issue.. lolol.

 

[JackH]

Sadly. with all due respect to you, your testimony/word proves, you do not 'keep' JESUS's commandments.

JESUS said this to those who believe in HIM that;

"Those who 'keep' my commandments, truly love me. And those who do not 'keep' my commandments, truly do not love me."

What commandment of Jesus am I not keeping, exactly?

This post of yours was in response to my saying a female quadriplegic in a wheelchair can pray in her wheelchair.

Actually, I was thinking of Joni Eareckson Tada who, in her wheelchair, has ministered to the disabled for over 30 years.

Taught, preached to, whatever word you want to use.

In fact, I even think the word pastor might apply in a broad sense.

She even teaches the pastors of churches how to minister to the disabled.

 

[MarcR]

Brother Marc, thank you for exhibiting a Christ-like spirit of meekness and graciousness, as opposed to some of the men here who are twisted in knots of anger, pride and bitterness. I have no interest in hearing anything further from these resentful men. But to you I am willing to acknowledge that I honestly am not 100% clear on the roles of women in the church.

I know that I Timothy 2:11 & 12 is referring to husbands and wives. It states that the wife should not Lord over the husband. But no other place in the scripture teaches that all women should be under authority of all men in the church. If this passage in I Timothy is to be interpreted the traditional way, this makes a different and unusual pattern of submission. The NT consistently teaches that a wife should be under the authority of her husband and that fits the larger context of this scripture much better.

In I Timothy chapter 3 it talks about church leadership. There is where I am getting confused. It talks of bishops and deacons having "one wife" - so obviously it's speaking to men. But then in Romans 16 Paul mentions Phoebe who is a servant, which is interpreted "deacon" (deaconess?) and minister.

So now I'm left wondering about all the roles/titles in the modern day church:
bishop ἐπισκοπῆς means overseer [understood by some as equivalent to pastor and by others as pastors' pastor
pastor ποίμεν means shepherd He who is charged with the spiritual safety and well-being of a church
reverend in my opinion a fancy title some pastors pompously apply to themselves
minister διάκονος means servant one who concerns him/her self with another's spiritual or material needs
deacon διάκονος means servant one who concerns him/her self with another's spiritual or material needs
prophet/prophetess προφήτας one who proclaims God's word either from direct revelation or from Scripture [some might disagree with me on this] if done before the assembled church this may be construed as preaching elsewhere as witnessing.
priest in my opinion one who appeals to God on behalf of another. In OT times through animal sacrifice. in NT times .................by intercessory prayer.
teacher in my opinion one who imparts truth to another whether spiritual or secular

Brother Marc, are you (or anybody else on this site who is humbly submitted to the Lord) able to define each of these roles in a way that I can see clearly?

Violet

I hope this is helpful to you and perhaps others.

 

[phil112]

Brother Marc, thank you for exhibiting a Christ-like spirit of meekness and graciousness, as opposed to some of the men here who are twisted in knots of anger, pride and bitterness. ................................. But then in Romans 16 Paul mentions Phoebe who is a servant, which is interpreted "deacon" (deaconess?) and minister.................................

I surely hope you aren't including me in that group, and if you are, I surely hope you'll forgive me for coming across that way. None of those 3 words describe me.
I am simply dedicated to keeping the word as God intended, and to do that doesn't mean making suppositions if they aren't and can't be supported by the bible.
You mentioned Romans 16 and here is what Strongs says about that word. Now I hope you will employ good reading comprehension skills here.

1249 NT - Greek[diakonoV]
diakonos dee-ak'-on-os probably from an obsolete diako (to run on errands; compare 1377); an attendant, i.e. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon or deaconess):--deacon, minister, servant.

Probably does not mean the same thing as certain. Doctrines should be made on sure scripture, not those that employ conjecture and supposition to endorse one's particular doctrine.
Even if you could verify that "diako" was the root word, which clearly cannot be done, it would still be a reach to build a doctrine on such word dissection. If it was the root word, why not just use it to start with? Wouldn't that eliminate uncertainty and confusion? Sure it would, but they didn't.

I believe that the men that translated the original Greek to English were guided by God's Spirit just as were the original writers. I believe that, with only a couple of exceptions and those aren't doctrinal, that the words used, convey the meaning God desired us to have.

That is my position. No hate, anger, pride, malice, bitterness or anything else motivates my posts.

 

[MarcR]

Originally Posted by VioletReigns
Brother Marc, thank you for exhibiting a Christ-like spirit of meekness and graciousness, as opposed to some of the men here who are twisted in knots of anger, pride and bitterness. I have no interest in hearing anything further from these resentful men. But to you I am willing to acknowledge that I honestly am not 100% clear on the roles of women in the church.

I know that I Timothy 2:11 & 12 is referring to husbands and wives. It states that the wife should not Lord over the husband. But no other place in the scripture teaches that all women should be under authority of all men in the church. If this passage in I Timothy is to be interpreted the traditional way, this makes a different and unusual pattern of submission. The NT consistently teaches that a wife should be under the authority of her husband and that fits the larger context of this scripture much better.

In I Timothy chapter 3 it talks about church leadership. There is where I am getting confused. It talks of bishops and deacons having "one wife" - so obviously it's speaking to men. But then in Romans 16 Paul mentions Phoebe who is a servant, which is interpreted "deacon" (deaconess?) and minister.

So now I'm left wondering about all the roles/titles in the modern day church:

bishop ἐπισκοπῆς means overseer [understood by some as equivalent to pastor and by others as pastors' pastor
pastor ποίμεν means shepherd He who is charged with the spiritual safety and well-being of a church
reverend in my opinion a fancy title some pastors pompously apply to themselves
minister διάκονος means servant one who concerns him/her self with another's spiritual or material needs
deacon διάκονος means servant one who concerns him/her self with another's spiritual or material needs
prophet/prophetess προφήτας one who proclaims God's word either from direct revelation or from Scripture [some might disagree with me on this] if done before the assembled church this may be construed as preaching elsewhere as witnessing.
priest in my opinion one who appeals to God on behalf of another. In OT times through animal sacrifice. in NT times .................by intercessory prayer.
teacher in my opinion one who imparts truth to another whether spiritual or secular

Brother Marc, are you (or anybody else on this site who is humbly submitted to the Lord) able to define each of these roles in a way that I can see clearly?

Violet

I hope this is helpful to you and perhaps others.

I neglected to mention that my answers to your questions are embedded in the quotation
I have now used a contrasting color. This explanation is more for other's benefit than yours since you know what you wrote.

 

[JackH]

You mentioned Romans 16 and here is what Strongs says about that word.

The definition from Strong's you posted indicates a pastor is technically a deacon or deaconess.

What's a deaconess?

 

[JackH]

bishop ἐπισκοπῆς means overseer [understood by some as equivalent to pastor and by others as pastors' pastor
pastor ποίμεν means shepherd He who is charged with the spiritual safety and well-being of a church
reverend in my opinion a fancy title some pastors pompously apply to themselves
minister διάκονος means servant one who concerns him/her self with another's spiritual or material needs
deacon διάκονος means servant one who concerns him/her self with another's spiritual or material needs
prophet/prophetess προφήτας one who proclaims God's word either from direct revelation or from Scripture [some might disagree with me on this] if done before the assembled church this may be construed as preaching elsewhere as witnessing.
priest in my opinion one who appeals to God on behalf of another. In OT times through animal sacrifice. in NT times .................by intercessory prayer.
teacher in my opinion one who imparts truth to another whether spiritual or secular

So of all those words, which can a woman be and which can't she be?

 

[phil112]

The definition from Strong's you posted indicates a pastor is technically a deacon or deaconess.

What's a deaconess?

Your reading comprehension skills are non-existent. You should stop posting until your senility abates some. Try reading the post 3 or 4 times. maybe that will help.

 

[JackH]

Your reading comprehension skills are non-existent. You should stop posting until your senility abates some. Try reading the post 3 or 4 times. maybe that will help.

Okay, I've read your definition 4 times.

Your definition still says a pastor is technically a deacon or a deaconess.

Does it not say that?

What is a deaconess then, by the definition you yourself posted?

A woman who is a pastor according to your definition, right?

Why would such a word as deaconess (defined by your source as a female pastor) exist if a woman couldn't be one?

Don't you believe your own sources?

 

[tribesman]

Violet

I hope this is helpful to you and perhaps others.

I find your very large fonts in your signature disturbing as they take up MUCH SPACE in the threads. And it should be sound mind of you to use the regular or at least smaller, or just plain normal "use your head for what is good netiquette" size for your signature. I hope you adjust this asap. Else it will be something for the moderators to look at.

 

[JackH]

First deacons are in Acts 6.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I don't see the word deacons in Acts 6. Not in my KJV anyway.

So I'll take a guess.

Are you saying that a deacon is a disciple?

I see that word disciple in Acts 6.

What is a first deacon?