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psalm6819
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Just remember............your mother was a woman, so are your wives and sisters. WE are everywhere. 
A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?
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Thank God for His loving kindness.Just remember............your mother was a woman, so are your wives and sisters. WE are everywhere.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Romans 14:4 (KJV) Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
What does this scripture mean? Does it mean that only men can be servants? After all, it does say 'him', doesn't it?
If not, then it means God is able to make her stand as well.
Does you get the impression here that it's wrong to judge anyone's servant? What then should this tell us about judging God's servants?
If she is still standing in the end, WHO is making her stand? The Devil?
1 Chronicles 16:17-22 (KJV) [SUP]17 [/SUP]And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant, [SUP]18 [/SUP]Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance; [SUP]19 [/SUP]When ye were but few, even a few, and strangers in it. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And when they went from nation to nation, and from one kingdom to another people; [SUP]21 [/SUP]He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes, [SUP]22 [/SUP]Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.Remember, the context declares that the writer is talking about ALL ISRAEL..... not just the men. In the OT, all true Jews were the anointed of God.
Who then is the anointed now? Just the men? A better covenant based on better promises won't allow a part of the church to be less than another, for God is no respecter of persons.
Who anoints? Who calls? Who ordains? Is it not the Lord Himself, the Head of the church? Who then O' man are you, who ordains with your bylaws those you determine to be just & capable? WHO GAVE YOU THAT RIGHT?!? Open your book & read, & show me where God allowed you to create your own bylaws beyond the structure of scriptures to ordain who you please? Are Robert's Rules of Order more important than the Bible?
How dare a man to judge the scribes & pharisees of old for teaching the doctrines of men, yet do more of the same & call himself blameless?
Who is the man who judges that women can't declare the Gospel & teach pure doctrine to all the church, & then declares a woman just & right to continue the work of a missionary over a whole country when her spouse dies? Who did these things in the early church? Were they not the apostles?
Such a man does not judge from what he has read in the scriptures, praying that enlightenment be given to him. No, he judges from what another man told him. Denominational leaders.
Such people pound their pulpits, preaching the Great Commission to all their congregation out of one side of their mouths, then teach out of the other side that over half half of them can't do it. Now we all know that women make up more than 50% of the congregation, yes?
They preach & teach that we are led by God & anointed to spread the gospel, then only allow man-appointed man-ordained men in their pulpits to do it.
They won't let women preach in their churches, but they allow them to minister in jails, nursing homes, pregnancy centers, & juvenile detention centers, places their "ordained men" are too good to go to.
In the end, the women are the majority that's going into all the "world", preaching the gospel, while the "man-ordained preacher" is confined to the four walls of the church.
Apparently, someone in the man-appointed church forgot the words of Paul about those who preach:
Philippians 1:12-20 (KJV) [SUP]12 [/SUP]But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel; [SUP]13 [/SUP]So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places; [SUP]14 [/SUP]And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: [SUP]16 [/SUP]The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: [SUP]17 [/SUP]But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. [SUP]18 [/SUP]What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, [SUP]20 [/SUP]According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.
If you cannot discern by now that Satan is deceiving the church to hinder the gospel, you are blind.
LET THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST BE PREACHED BY ALL!
What does this scripture mean? Does it mean that only men can be servants? After all, it does say 'him', doesn't it?
If not, then it means God is able to make her stand as well.
Does you get the impression here that it's wrong to judge anyone's servant? What then should this tell us about judging God's servants?
If she is still standing in the end, WHO is making her stand? The Devil?
1 Chronicles 16:17-22 (KJV) [SUP]17 [/SUP]And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant, [SUP]18 [/SUP]Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance; [SUP]19 [/SUP]When ye were but few, even a few, and strangers in it. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And when they went from nation to nation, and from one kingdom to another people; [SUP]21 [/SUP]He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes, [SUP]22 [/SUP]Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.Remember, the context declares that the writer is talking about ALL ISRAEL..... not just the men. In the OT, all true Jews were the anointed of God.
Who then is the anointed now? Just the men? A better covenant based on better promises won't allow a part of the church to be less than another, for God is no respecter of persons.
Who anoints? Who calls? Who ordains? Is it not the Lord Himself, the Head of the church? Who then O' man are you, who ordains with your bylaws those you determine to be just & capable? WHO GAVE YOU THAT RIGHT?!? Open your book & read, & show me where God allowed you to create your own bylaws beyond the structure of scriptures to ordain who you please? Are Robert's Rules of Order more important than the Bible?
How dare a man to judge the scribes & pharisees of old for teaching the doctrines of men, yet do more of the same & call himself blameless?
Who is the man who judges that women can't declare the Gospel & teach pure doctrine to all the church, & then declares a woman just & right to continue the work of a missionary over a whole country when her spouse dies? Who did these things in the early church? Were they not the apostles?
Such a man does not judge from what he has read in the scriptures, praying that enlightenment be given to him. No, he judges from what another man told him. Denominational leaders.
Such people pound their pulpits, preaching the Great Commission to all their congregation out of one side of their mouths, then teach out of the other side that over half half of them can't do it. Now we all know that women make up more than 50% of the congregation, yes?
They preach & teach that we are led by God & anointed to spread the gospel, then only allow man-appointed man-ordained men in their pulpits to do it.
They won't let women preach in their churches, but they allow them to minister in jails, nursing homes, pregnancy centers, & juvenile detention centers, places their "ordained men" are too good to go to.
In the end, the women are the majority that's going into all the "world", preaching the gospel, while the "man-ordained preacher" is confined to the four walls of the church.
Apparently, someone in the man-appointed church forgot the words of Paul about those who preach:
Philippians 1:12-20 (KJV) [SUP]12 [/SUP]But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel; [SUP]13 [/SUP]So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places; [SUP]14 [/SUP]And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: [SUP]16 [/SUP]The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: [SUP]17 [/SUP]But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. [SUP]18 [/SUP]What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, [SUP]20 [/SUP]According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.
If you cannot discern by now that Satan is deceiving the church to hinder the gospel, you are blind.
LET THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST BE PREACHED BY ALL!
KJV1611 is a KJV ONLYIST, biblically speaking.
The part about the Sioux and the transgendered members of the tribe is true, except for the part about Johnny Cash.
I couldn't resist tossing in a little joke to lighten things up around here.
But thanks for the Geico commercial (Everybody knows that) on "A Boy Named Sue."
But back to the issue at hand, who said this:
"We hold woman to be justly entitled to all we claim for man."
I'll give you a few clues:
It wasn't Paul.
The same person who said it also said: "Right is of no sex - truth is of no color - God is the Father of us all, and we are all brethren, including women."
It is Christ's wishes that females cover their heads whenever praying and/or
prophesying (1Cor 11:3-10). That can be accomplished without a hat very
easily with either a scarf or a hijab.
FYI: The beliefs and practices of Christianity are not for everyone. If its rules
chafe you; then perhaps you'd best not take it up rather than taking it up
and then trying to reform it. Females who work to reform Christianity are
heretics; which is a category of Christian that has be culled from the herd:
no exceptions.
†. Rom 16:17 . .Watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles
in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away
from them.
†. Titus 3:10-11 . . Reject a divisive person after the first and second
admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self
condemned.
=====================================
You're kidding, right? I thought you had been serious all along.
The purpose of a hijab is to honour Allah, according to the dictates of the prophet Mohammed.
I prefer to serve Jesus Christ, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, who is perfect in every way, than some tribal deity from somewhere in the Sinai Pennisula!
I am the kind of person who literally has /no/ desire to ever lead anyone whatsoever, but even with that, I wanna do it because God has told us that it is His will that we be the head of the family. So when it comes to these roles, I will admit, I never get why people fight them. I mean when Im at church, I dont talk at all. I literally sit and listen the whole time, keeping in mind I am here to learn things. I have been to a few churches I wanted to get away from because of what they taught, I actually just came from one that tried to tell us that there was more than two genders, haha is obviously not the church for me 
But I dunno, when I find a girlfriend, though I dont at all want her to "keep her mouth shut", I do want one that has the desire to do right by God, as I do. Because sometimes I struggle with it, but even when I dont feel like I can do it, I try with faith in Him anyways.
The bible does say that women should not preach, so yeah I go with what we were taught, it was never Gods will. Im not attacking anyone, I dont hate women who do, but still, it was not Gods will. It kinda reminds me of when Christ talked to His followers about divorce, He told them it was not Gods will in the beginning, but Moses allowed it because no one would accept that law. Im not gonna tell women to "learn their place" (no man should ever say this to anyone), Im not gonna protest it, Im not gonna do anything about it at all. But I do keep Christ and what He stood for in my heart at all times. I struggle with my roles as well, being the one who has to provide and protect and keep the lead all the time, haha, I will admit sometimes I wonder why I would have to be the one whod have to do that But I would do it anyways, knowing that God does in fact know that I can do it.
But does God call women to preach? Well, that would go against what He told us, so I dunno if I can believe that.
But I dunno, when I find a girlfriend, though I dont at all want her to "keep her mouth shut", I do want one that has the desire to do right by God, as I do. Because sometimes I struggle with it, but even when I dont feel like I can do it, I try with faith in Him anyways.The bible does say that women should not preach, so yeah I go with what we were taught, it was never Gods will. Im not attacking anyone, I dont hate women who do, but still, it was not Gods will. It kinda reminds me of when Christ talked to His followers about divorce, He told them it was not Gods will in the beginning, but Moses allowed it because no one would accept that law. Im not gonna tell women to "learn their place" (no man should ever say this to anyone), Im not gonna protest it, Im not gonna do anything about it at all. But I do keep Christ and what He stood for in my heart at all times. I struggle with my roles as well, being the one who has to provide and protect and keep the lead all the time, haha, I will admit sometimes I wonder why I would have to be the one whod have to do that
But I would do it anyways, knowing that God does in fact know that I can do it.But does God call women to preach? Well, that would go against what He told us, so I dunno if I can believe that.
-
Sophistry and rationalizing are very effective on Christians; and it is for this
very reason that Christ gifted the church with his own pastors.
†. Eph 4:11-15 . . He is the one who gave these gifts to the church: the
apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. Their
responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and build up the
church, the body of Christ, until we come to such unity in our faith and
knowledge of God's Son that we will be mature and full grown in the Lord,
measuring up to the full stature of Christ.
. . .Then we will no longer be like children, forever changing our minds about
what we believe because someone has told us something different or
because someone has cleverly lied to us and made the lie sound like the
truth.
There are people on the internet who are very good at arguing that it's okay
for females to be pastors. In other words; they are the very people about
whom Paul warned are capable of clever lies that sound like the truth. The
best way to defeat the clever liars it to hold your ground and not let them
talk you into doubting that the passages below really mean what they say in
writing.
1Cor 11:3
1Cor 11:7-9,
1Cor 14:34-35,
1Cor 14:37,
1Ths 4:1-2,
1Tim 2:11-13
KJV1611 pointed out that Eve tripped up by letting the serpent talk her into
doubting that God really meant what he said; and you can see what that got
her-- you can also see what it got Adam too.
=======================================
Sophistry and rationalizing are very effective on Christians; and it is for this
very reason that Christ gifted the church with his own pastors.
†. Eph 4:11-15 . . He is the one who gave these gifts to the church: the
apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. Their
responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and build up the
church, the body of Christ, until we come to such unity in our faith and
knowledge of God's Son that we will be mature and full grown in the Lord,
measuring up to the full stature of Christ.
. . .Then we will no longer be like children, forever changing our minds about
what we believe because someone has told us something different or
because someone has cleverly lied to us and made the lie sound like the
truth.
There are people on the internet who are very good at arguing that it's okay
for females to be pastors. In other words; they are the very people about
whom Paul warned are capable of clever lies that sound like the truth. The
best way to defeat the clever liars it to hold your ground and not let them
talk you into doubting that the passages below really mean what they say in
writing.
1Cor 11:3
1Cor 11:7-9,
1Cor 14:34-35,
1Cor 14:37,
1Ths 4:1-2,
1Tim 2:11-13
KJV1611 pointed out that Eve tripped up by letting the serpent talk her into
doubting that God really meant what he said; and you can see what that got
her-- you can also see what it got Adam too.
=======================================
Though it may be off topic, though Eve sinned first, Adam is just as guilty as she is. Satan got her to do it, and she got him to do it, so they both followed another being who wasnt God and rebelled against Him, even if she did it first.
I could be wrong about things, though. God did give women their own hardships from this event. But they did both sin, even if they followed a different person.
I kinda feel weird when people put all the blame on Eve :/
I could be wrong about things, though. God did give women their own hardships from this event. But they did both sin, even if they followed a different person.
I kinda feel weird when people put all the blame on Eve :/
E
elf3
Guest
Interesting that Jesus NEVER tells the women to sit down shut up and be quiet. But most of the Jewish leaders (all men) denied Him and conspired to kill Him.
Looks like men haven't changed one single bit.
Looks like men haven't changed one single bit.
E
elf3
Guest
For sure. I believe satan used eve first because he knew the woman could sway the man. What if it was the other way around? Adam eats first and eve slaps him "stupid man". Just a little thought.
Ok ready "go" now attack me on this hypothetical idea.
Acts 1:13,14
13And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. 14These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Acts 2:1-4
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 1:17,18
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Looks like the men were of one accord with the women while not trying to usurp authority over them immediately after the Resurrection and through Pentecost. If God in His mercy towards mankind puts His Holy Spirit on a sister and moves her to speak we should allow her to speak, especially if God moves her into a Pastoral role where He wishes to place her. Let God be the judge as the Gospel of our salvation went out to man and woman.
13And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. 14These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Acts 2:1-4
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 1:17,18
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Looks like the men were of one accord with the women while not trying to usurp authority over them immediately after the Resurrection and through Pentecost. If God in His mercy towards mankind puts His Holy Spirit on a sister and moves her to speak we should allow her to speak, especially if God moves her into a Pastoral role where He wishes to place her. Let God be the judge as the Gospel of our salvation went out to man and woman.
If you are offended by hijabs; then it's your choice not to wear one
whenever you are praying and/or prophesying. But looking through online
catalogues, I've found several patterns that are quite stylish, and in my opinion
would be acceptable to all except maybe the snobs in church who find fault with
just about everything anyway.
=====================================
E
elf3
Guest
Not to mention with only men as leaders in the church look at all the corruption that has entered the church. Only men voted on all the new doctrines and "traditions" that are infiltrating the church. Yeah just men in charge seems wonderful.
E
elf3
Guest
I have to give you "kudos" on one thing. You sure are not shy about your feeling of authority over women. So far you have pretty much proved that you feel you are better than women in every aspect.
Since we are people of the New Covenant of CHRIST which GOD made with us by the HOLY SPIRIT, and also since we call ourselves as Christian, then prove through the written Scripture of the New Covenant, GOD's Word said that women are also called and allowed to become leaders/pastors?
And i will give you all who are witnessing 'vain debaters' against the New Covenant, a direct Scripture in context justification as written in 1 Timothy 3; 1-7, that only 'men' are to take that place of service, in and for GOD's church until CHRIST returns. Apostle Paul with authority from CHRIST, gave young Timothy instructions how and who to choose as leaders/pastors for GOD's churches and also which 'gender' very clearly, for even a 'child' is able to understand that.
And here is the beginning of the written proof for that 'child of GOD', that;
"The saying is trustworthy: If anyone 'aspires' to the office of 'overseer/leader/pastor', 'he' desires a noble task. ......................... 'He' ....................................................................................... 'He' .....................................
So please lambs and sheep of GOD beware of the 'yeast' of the Pharisees, who are in carnal/flesh religiousness, living and witnessing the written and justified Word of GOD in false and are liars, knowingly or unknowingly.
One may ask, why the big 'fuss' over a small thing, and what 'harm' a little false can do?
As it is written 'what' and 'who' CHRIST cautions about, who believers are to be aware of;
"Watch out for the 'yeast' of the Pharisees."
"It takes only a little 'yeast', to 'rise up' a lump of dough."
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Romans 16:1
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a deacon in the church in Cenchrea.
I pasted this once again because the correct translation here is deacon, and not servant, as even though the Greek word here diákonos can mean taken as servant its usage here is deacon. And a deacon is a person in place of ministry, preacher, and leadership in the church.
dea·con
ˈdēkən/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
verb
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a deacon in the church in Cenchrea.
I pasted this once again because the correct translation here is deacon, and not servant, as even though the Greek word here diákonos can mean taken as servant its usage here is deacon. And a deacon is a person in place of ministry, preacher, and leadership in the church.
dea·con
ˈdēkən/
noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
- 1.
(in Catholic, Anglican, and Orthodox churches) an ordained minister of an order ranking below that of priest.
- [COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
verb
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
- 1.
appoint or ordain as a deacon.
As un-wonderful as they may be at times; male pastors are Christ's gender
of choice.
You know: nothing brings out a female's fallen nature like a gender issue. Only
a truly Spirit-filled woman is at peace with male domination. The rest are
perpetually chafed by it because they are ruled by the flesh instead of the Spirit.
†. Rom 8:5-8 . .Those who live according to the sinful nature have their
minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with
the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful
man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the
sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do
so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
====================================
Last edited:
In Romans 16, Paul wrote that Andronicus and Junia were 'of note among the apostles.' I pointed out to a retired Greek professor I know on a Christian discussion forum that this is ambiguous in English. We don't know if all the apostles were talking about this couple and talking about how notable they were, or whether they were apostle who were considered to be of note. He said that the Greek was also ambiguous. It's not a clear cut case for a female apostle, and that is the only verse that might call a woman an apostle.
Even so, if a church laid hands on a missionary couple and sent both husband and wife out, does that justify the idea that the wife would be serving in a role similar to an overseer of the church? We read a lot into the word 'apostle' based on church tradition that doesn't really have to do with the context of scripture, IMO.
As far as women leading in the church, Phoebe is said to be a servant of the church in Cenchrea. The word for servant there is also translated deacon. I know that some people go to Baptist churches that have a 'deacon board' where the deacons run the show, hire and fire the pastor, and make decisions for the church like an 'elder board' in some other churches. But it would seem a lot more likely that deacons in the Bible were like the seven, feeing widows and doing similar administrative work. They aren't the same as the bishop/elder of the church role who are in a more authoritative position.
Even one of the passages of Paul on deacons has that section 'and their women' which could be interpreted as requirements for how a deacons wife has to be for him to be a deacon. But it would be strange that there is no list for the overseer/elder's wife if that is the case. Another interpretation is that these are requirements for a female deacon.
We need to keep in mind that deacons didn't run the church. They most likely administrated feeding the poor. Phoebe had assisted many, including Paul. This could have been while doing deacon works of service, helping with financial need, and other things.
So this does shake the apple cart of those who think women can't do any ministry in the church. But it doesn't put them in the overseer/pastor type role in scripture.
I am not offended by hijabs. But you need to understand that this is MUSLIM headwear!
As for your egrerious doctrine that women have to wear head coverings, there is only one place in the entire Bible this is mentioned, and in context, it has to do with the culture of Corinth, which was a sailor town, full of temple prostitutes. All Paul wanted to do was have the women not look like prostitutes, but rather Christians.
So you are a Muslim? Such legalism has to mean that! I know some Muslims who know the Bible better than some Christians. Mind you, you don't seem to have a clue about exegesis or hermeneutics - how to properly read and interpret the Bible.
So would you rather all women be kept inside in harems, except when a father, husband or brother goes out with them, and they are dressed in a burka and niqab? Just curious.