I am a Seventh Day Adventist, Ask Me.
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J
And if she didn't have a new Word of God or new revelation. Than why did her word need to be considered as equal to the scriptures. Why couldn't she just be a normal Christian who maybe studied the Bible and thought she might have something to share with others which they might have missed. There is no reason to call yourself a prophet, directly influenced by the Holy Spirit to communicate the Word of God if you don't have anything new to add
Well I would respectfully suggest that you are wrong in what you have just said.
If you study the History of our denomination you will find that our Doctrines came from long and prayerful bible study. For example the Sabbath was studied and rejected by many of the Adventists at first, but as more study was done they came to believe that the bible indeed teaches that the Sabbath should still be kept. It was not till after this decision had been made after much study and prayer that Ellen received a vision which lined up with what they had found in the bible.
So they first found it in the bible and then the vision came later. The Sabbath belief gave birth to the Seventh Day Adventist church which came out of the Adventist/Millerite movement.
We actually learned it when an Adventist was challenged by a seventh Day Baptist and then they decided to study the word to see if it was true.
We do not believe nor teach nor did Ellen white believe or teach that she had a new word. but rather she pointed back to the word of God.
See if you know anything about that time in the early 1800's you will know there was a lot of confusion in the religious world. All sorts of weird teachings. Many Christians did not believe that Christ would come back etc.
about the only vision I can recall that came before the study was from a man named Edson I think it was, who was a Adventist who believed that Jesus would come in 1844. shortly after the realization that this was not true they searched their bible to see where they had gone wrong. They could find nothing wrong with the date they came to so were confused. So God gave Him a short vision in which He saw Christ enter the Most Holy place, so He and some others went back to the bible and the book of Hebrews etc and they found that they were in fact wrong about the event not the date. Bur this doctrine of the Judgment was well established from the bible before Ellen later had a vision saying the same thing.
hope that helps.
If you study the History of our denomination you will find that our Doctrines came from long and prayerful bible study. For example the Sabbath was studied and rejected by many of the Adventists at first, but as more study was done they came to believe that the bible indeed teaches that the Sabbath should still be kept. It was not till after this decision had been made after much study and prayer that Ellen received a vision which lined up with what they had found in the bible.
So they first found it in the bible and then the vision came later. The Sabbath belief gave birth to the Seventh Day Adventist church which came out of the Adventist/Millerite movement.
We actually learned it when an Adventist was challenged by a seventh Day Baptist and then they decided to study the word to see if it was true.
We do not believe nor teach nor did Ellen white believe or teach that she had a new word. but rather she pointed back to the word of God.
See if you know anything about that time in the early 1800's you will know there was a lot of confusion in the religious world. All sorts of weird teachings. Many Christians did not believe that Christ would come back etc.
about the only vision I can recall that came before the study was from a man named Edson I think it was, who was a Adventist who believed that Jesus would come in 1844. shortly after the realization that this was not true they searched their bible to see where they had gone wrong. They could find nothing wrong with the date they came to so were confused. So God gave Him a short vision in which He saw Christ enter the Most Holy place, so He and some others went back to the bible and the book of Hebrews etc and they found that they were in fact wrong about the event not the date. Bur this doctrine of the Judgment was well established from the bible before Ellen later had a vision saying the same thing.
hope that helps.
J
I'm all about discussion in the pursuit of truth. All I'm asking is please, if it's a Seventh Day Adventist thread, than the only thing I am curious about is the teachings of the founders. I can discuss the Bible anywhere. If I have misrepresented them, it's only because I am ignorant. Which is why I am in this thread to begin with
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She gave clarification in a time of confusion. She was among the Adventists and when 1844 passed much confusion came from it. all sorts of weird teachings began to rise. many seemed to some extent to be Bible based, God gave comfort to those Adventists who continued to search their bible for answers.
She did not call herself a prophet nor did she like the term. but she did receive visions and help in the direction of the church. but as I said her direction was confirmation not the basis of the teachings we hold. She was used by God not to bring light that the bible does not, but rather to confirm light that humanity had missed because we did not study our bibles as we should.
She did not call herself a prophet nor did she like the term. but she did receive visions and help in the direction of the church. but as I said her direction was confirmation not the basis of the teachings we hold. She was used by God not to bring light that the bible does not, but rather to confirm light that humanity had missed because we did not study our bibles as we should.
There were others also: James White from which Ellen Got her last name when she married Him. Joseph bates who brought the Sabbath teaching in. among others.
A good book that is compact and gives a brief rundown of how we came about and through whom is called,
"a brief history of seventh day adventists 2nd edition" by Geroge R. Knight. gives you a quick rundown.
as far as Ellen white and her life best to read her own words.
As far as what she believed simply read what our church believes and you will know what she believes.
The book the midnight cry is about william miller and the millerite movement to get an idea about why 1844 and the mistake they made. written byFrancis D. Nichol.
hope that answers your question.
A good book that is compact and gives a brief rundown of how we came about and through whom is called,
"a brief history of seventh day adventists 2nd edition" by Geroge R. Knight. gives you a quick rundown.
as far as Ellen white and her life best to read her own words.
As far as what she believed simply read what our church believes and you will know what she believes.
The book the midnight cry is about william miller and the millerite movement to get an idea about why 1844 and the mistake they made. written byFrancis D. Nichol.
hope that answers your question.
J
And also, Mitspa just referenced a book titled Early Writings which seems to make some pretty bold claims about when Christ would return. Is that a credible source or is it full of lies? How do you view those claims if it is credible? Do you see her as someone who tried to figure out where Miller went wrong and just continued to get it wrong due to mathematical error? There were a number of prophecies which hadn't been fulfilled at that time which had to precede the return of Christ. Did they just get it right when it came to keeping a Saturday sabbath but got it completely wrong when it came to prophecy?
The book early writings is the writing of Ellen white. but first what he quotes is not on that page and the dates are not there either. In Fact Ellen white taught that it was error to pick dates for the coming of Jesus. So what has been posted is very misleading.
She did believe Jesus was coming in 1844 but this was before she started receiving visions from God.
And the part of the writing that has been produced in His quote is speaking of the future just before Christ returns but no date is given.
She did believe Jesus was coming in 1844 but this was before she started receiving visions from God.
And the part of the writing that has been produced in His quote is speaking of the future just before Christ returns but no date is given.
J
Ok thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, I will look in to it for myself when I find the time. I already know where I stand on the issue however: If she does claim to be a prophet with special revelation, I will dismiss the SDA denomination. (I don't like the idea of any denomination to be honest, just the thought of splitting the body of Christ seems contrary to His entire message. But people are imperfect and miss the point. Which is to love, minor differences in Biblical interpretation should be secondary to the ultimate truth - we are to become conformed to Christ and love as God loves, even those who would hate us)
I, like you, also believe that if we willfully continue our lives as slaves to sin, we are not doing as Jesus commanded. And on judgement day, Matthew 7:22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
But as far as Sabbath keeping.... I am not thoroughly convinced. In fact it is something I have studied in depth a number of times throughout my walk as a Christian. It surely would make the kingdom of heaven a thousand times less populated. So many "great" Christians would have to be burnt up like chaff on the day of Judgement. A huge amount of Christians believe that hell is an eternal place of torment for sinners too, so it's not like I don't realize that many many people can be in error.
But wow, just think about the consequences if you are right that in order to have eternal life, you must keep a Saturday Sabbath. Such a thought would be overwhelmingly depressing if I actually was convinced of it. As it is now, I already feel like a large majority of American Christians are deceived to the point of being lost, but you are saying that actually the vast majority of Christians all over the world are in grave danger of death.
So according to you and the SDA denomination, the early church must have all been observing a Saturday Sabbath. At what point do you believe the church lost its way?
I, like you, also believe that if we willfully continue our lives as slaves to sin, we are not doing as Jesus commanded. And on judgement day, Matthew 7:22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
But as far as Sabbath keeping.... I am not thoroughly convinced. In fact it is something I have studied in depth a number of times throughout my walk as a Christian. It surely would make the kingdom of heaven a thousand times less populated. So many "great" Christians would have to be burnt up like chaff on the day of Judgement. A huge amount of Christians believe that hell is an eternal place of torment for sinners too, so it's not like I don't realize that many many people can be in error.
But wow, just think about the consequences if you are right that in order to have eternal life, you must keep a Saturday Sabbath. Such a thought would be overwhelmingly depressing if I actually was convinced of it. As it is now, I already feel like a large majority of American Christians are deceived to the point of being lost, but you are saying that actually the vast majority of Christians all over the world are in grave danger of death.
So according to you and the SDA denomination, the early church must have all been observing a Saturday Sabbath. At what point do you believe the church lost its way?
H
Hi gotime,
We've debated often in the past and never agreed. BTW, what city are you from? I'm from Brisbane.
Anyway I couldn't let your Adventist boast above go past.
Whilst SDA's may well quote the Bible it is delusional for them to claim that "every single thing we teach is found in the bible". Pharisees and Sadducees also taught from the OT Bible and yet lacked understanding. The SDA's are no different, as is evident with their false understanding and teachings, from the Bible.
I saw a reference in this topic to Heb 10:26 about willful sin. What do SDA's teach about this scripture?
We've debated often in the past and never agreed. BTW, what city are you from? I'm from Brisbane.
Anyway I couldn't let your Adventist boast above go past.
Whilst SDA's may well quote the Bible it is delusional for them to claim that "every single thing we teach is found in the bible". Pharisees and Sadducees also taught from the OT Bible and yet lacked understanding. The SDA's are no different, as is evident with their false understanding and teachings, from the Bible.
I saw a reference in this topic to Heb 10:26 about willful sin. What do SDA's teach about this scripture?
Paul speaks of a falling away and that false teachers would come in after him and in fact were already coming in.
The church compromised and began to teach false doctrines while John was still alive as evidenced by the messages to the churches.
but as for Sabbath, I think you are mistaken if you think that we believe that every one who has not kept the 7th day Sabbath will be lost. We do believe that just before Christ comes that will be the case but only for those who have had ample opportunity to know the truth and still reject it. There will be many in heaven who will keep their first Sabbath in heaven.
The church compromised and began to teach false doctrines while John was still alive as evidenced by the messages to the churches.
but as for Sabbath, I think you are mistaken if you think that we believe that every one who has not kept the 7th day Sabbath will be lost. We do believe that just before Christ comes that will be the case but only for those who have had ample opportunity to know the truth and still reject it. There will be many in heaven who will keep their first Sabbath in heaven.
Hi haz,
I am in Broken Hill NSW.
The proof is not in my boast but in whether it is in the bible or not. It is just as easy for me to say the same about your views. but in the end it is Gods word that speaks to who is in truth and who is not.
as to Hebrews 10:
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
If we continue to commit a sin after we have received a knowledge of the truth that it is sin then there is no more sacrifice for sins.
Jesus sacrifice only counts for those who repent. turn away.
In other words, If I continue to steal after I have come to a full knowledge of Gods will for me not to steal then there is no sacrifice for my sin. but If I repent and stop stealing in his power then forgiveness is mine in Christ.
Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
notice the same sentiment hear, Jesus lay his life down for all his friends, but only those who do all he commands actually are his friends.
The offer is for all but we must accept.
I am in Broken Hill NSW.
The proof is not in my boast but in whether it is in the bible or not. It is just as easy for me to say the same about your views. but in the end it is Gods word that speaks to who is in truth and who is not.
as to Hebrews 10:
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
If we continue to commit a sin after we have received a knowledge of the truth that it is sin then there is no more sacrifice for sins.
Jesus sacrifice only counts for those who repent. turn away.
In other words, If I continue to steal after I have come to a full knowledge of Gods will for me not to steal then there is no sacrifice for my sin. but If I repent and stop stealing in his power then forgiveness is mine in Christ.
Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
notice the same sentiment hear, Jesus lay his life down for all his friends, but only those who do all he commands actually are his friends.
The offer is for all but we must accept.
H
I see several problems with what you say.
Sin is transgression of the law (1John 3:4). Hence you are saying through the SDA teaching that Christians are to be judged under the law as whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
But Christians are not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.
Hence we cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law.
Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect?
How do you define willful sin in respect to your point about repentance?
If a Christian was to commit the same sin 500 or so times over a given period and repent each time, is this not willful sin anyway?
What is God's will according to SDA teaching?
Sin is transgression of the law (1John 3:4). Hence you are saying through the SDA teaching that Christians are to be judged under the law as whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
But Christians are not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.
Hence we cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law.
Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect?
How do you define willful sin in respect to your point about repentance?
If a Christian was to commit the same sin 500 or so times over a given period and repent each time, is this not willful sin anyway?
What is God's will according to SDA teaching?
Have you ever stated what your denomination is? I am curious....please personal message me what you believe as we have agreed on several issues and like I said I am curious....but I also know that people attack denominations when revealed as I have been butchered a few times in the year plus I have been here....thanks Darlene/JesusLives
Just a little history lesson for those who might be interested. The SDA were not a formal church until after a lot of these prophecy's had taken place and the church started with Baptists and Methodists just for informational purposes who had gotten together to study the Bible.Founding of the Seventh-day Adventist Church:
William Miller (1782-1849), a Baptist preacher, forecast the Second Coming of Jesus Christ in 1843. When that did not come to pass, Samuel Snow, a follower, did further calculations and advanced the date to 1844. After the event did not occur, Miller withdrew from leadership of the group and died in 1849. Ellen White, her husband James White, Joseph Bates and other Adventists formed a group in Washington, New Hampshire, which officially became the Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1863. J.N. Andrews became the first official missionary in 1874, traveling from the United States to Switzerland, and from that time the church became worldwide.
Who Was Ellen G. White?
[HR][/HR]Ellen Gould Harmon and her twin sister Elizabeth were born in Gorham, Maine, on Nov. 26, 1827 as the youngest of eight children. Her father, a maker and seller of hats, eventually moved the family to Portland, Maine, where Ellen grew to maturity. Her parents were devoted members of the Methodist Episcopal Church. When Ellen was nine years old another child threw a stone that hit Ellen in the face. She suffered severe trauma to the brain, was in a coma for three weeks and nearly died. The brain injury severely damaged her health and she was unable to continue her formal education past the 3rd grade, although she did receive some tutoring at home. In 1840, at the tender age of 13, she heard the preaching of a farmer turned evangelist named William Miller. Shortly afterward she accepted Jesus as her Savior, and she and her family joined the Millerite movement. On June 26, 1842, she was baptized by immersion in Casco Bay, Portland, into the Methodist Church.
Just providing a little historical background that different denominations were studying together before it became the official SDA denomination. I hope you will have taken the time to read these two short informational pieces about some of the founders of the SDA church.
I personally like to stick with the Bible as there are so many false accusations thrown out about the SDA denomination because people don't take the time to really study the history of the church and how it came about. While I believe EG White wrote books that can be helpful in the Christian walk she did not write the Bible which is the book we are to really fashion our lives after. I follow and want to pattern my life after Jesus and to become more like Him and if any of you would read The Desire of Ages which is all about the life of Christ you would also see that Mrs. White held the same view that we should pattern our lives after Jesus.
William Miller (1782-1849), a Baptist preacher, forecast the Second Coming of Jesus Christ in 1843. When that did not come to pass, Samuel Snow, a follower, did further calculations and advanced the date to 1844. After the event did not occur, Miller withdrew from leadership of the group and died in 1849. Ellen White, her husband James White, Joseph Bates and other Adventists formed a group in Washington, New Hampshire, which officially became the Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1863. J.N. Andrews became the first official missionary in 1874, traveling from the United States to Switzerland, and from that time the church became worldwide.
Who Was Ellen G. White?
[HR][/HR]Ellen Gould Harmon and her twin sister Elizabeth were born in Gorham, Maine, on Nov. 26, 1827 as the youngest of eight children. Her father, a maker and seller of hats, eventually moved the family to Portland, Maine, where Ellen grew to maturity. Her parents were devoted members of the Methodist Episcopal Church. When Ellen was nine years old another child threw a stone that hit Ellen in the face. She suffered severe trauma to the brain, was in a coma for three weeks and nearly died. The brain injury severely damaged her health and she was unable to continue her formal education past the 3rd grade, although she did receive some tutoring at home. In 1840, at the tender age of 13, she heard the preaching of a farmer turned evangelist named William Miller. Shortly afterward she accepted Jesus as her Savior, and she and her family joined the Millerite movement. On June 26, 1842, she was baptized by immersion in Casco Bay, Portland, into the Methodist Church.
Just providing a little historical background that different denominations were studying together before it became the official SDA denomination. I hope you will have taken the time to read these two short informational pieces about some of the founders of the SDA church.
I personally like to stick with the Bible as there are so many false accusations thrown out about the SDA denomination because people don't take the time to really study the history of the church and how it came about. While I believe EG White wrote books that can be helpful in the Christian walk she did not write the Bible which is the book we are to really fashion our lives after. I follow and want to pattern my life after Jesus and to become more like Him and if any of you would read The Desire of Ages which is all about the life of Christ you would also see that Mrs. White held the same view that we should pattern our lives after Jesus.