Will you listen to what God has to say about OSAS? Just scriptures?

[Jason0047]

Well, I do not believe in Works Salvationism. I believe works are a result of accepting God or the free gift. God does the works within a believer. However, do you need to realize that even free gifts come with some level of responsibility if you want to keep them.

For example:

If I give you a brand new car (tax free) that does not mean that you can be irresponsible with that gift. You can't run red lights, plow thru pedestrians, text and drive, drink and drive, ignore general maintainence on your car and still expect to keep your free gift. Most gifts require some kind of care involved at some point.

In other words, salvation is a relationship. It's not having a belief alone and it is not in doing a bunch of good works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, your world view is not reality. First, I have talked to people both in person and online and in person (Including a Pastor at his church) who admit that they can sin like the devil and still be saved; Second, there are testimonies of ex-OSAS propronents who felt trapped or enslaved to their sin because of the teaching of OSAS.

Ex-OSAS Proponent Testimonies.

Amazingly. I have heard more testimony from people who left God because of legalism, and a belief that osas is not true, Because the law just kept staring them in the face, and the more they studied the word, the more sinful they were. and the more impossible and futile their attempts to meet up with Gods standard was.

Licentiousness (the false belief that one can say a prayer and live however they desire) is not very huge, legalism is not only much larger, but much more dangerous, because it has people thinking they will go to heaven, Thinking they are "good people" thinking God is happy with them and their works, when in reality the opposite is true.

that is why far more of NT scripture is pitted against legalism, than it is licentiousness. Because it is far more of a problem to the true church.

Third, pure logic and deductive reasoning should tell you that if there is no real consequence to breaking a certain Law or Laws that truly matters, that is exactly what people are going to do. In other words, if people feel they will not get into trouble with the Law all that bad for breaking certain Laws, they will break them. For example: Take the speed limit Law on the highway. If the punishment for breaking the speed limit even just by a little on highways was spending time in jail for 2-3 weeks with heavy fines, what do you think will start to happen? More people would start to obey that Law better. Why? Because the punishment is more severe. The consequences are grave for them. Even certain non-believers do not fornicate because they know they could get sexual disease and or embarrassment by their family and friends. It is in realizing the consequence of their actions that deters them in doing what is good. In OSAS, you can sin and still be saved. You have taken away any real consequence that would matter to them. So what do you think they are going to do? They are going to sin, thinking they are saved. Maybe not everybody in the OSAS camp, but there are a good number who do so (Whether you are aware of it or not).

You know nothing of the chastening of God.

A non believer can sin, and suffer grave consequences. A believer will sin and suffer those same consequences, plus a more severe and harsher punishment of God. and chastening of the lord. They are held to a much higher standard.

This false belief that a person can sin and will not suffer a penalty is just rediculous.

The law imposed a penalty for anyone who broke it even one, it is called eternal condemnation. Jesus came to save us from the penalty of the law. or we all would be doomed. Because all of us have broken Gods law hundreds maybe thousands of time. Imagine all the death penalties you have out against you.

God saved us from his eternal wrath, He did nto save us from the pain and suffering sin causes every one of us, And if we are Gods children, that pain and suffering is far more severe.

all I can figure out is you legalists have never felt Gods chastening, or you would not make such comments. for YOU WOULD KNOW no one sins and gets away with it.

 

[Jason0047]

Well, I do not believe in Works Salvationism. I believe works are a result of accepting God or the free gift. God does the works within a believer. However, do you need to realize that even free gifts come with some level of responsibility if you want to keep them.

For example:

If I give you a brand new car (tax free) that does not mean that you can be irresponsible with that gift. You can't run red lights, plow thru pedestrians, text and drive, drink and drive, ignore general maintainence on your car and still expect to keep your free gift. Most gifts require some kind of care involved at some point.

I posted this in the other OSAS thread (But just in case anyone missed it, I provided it here, too).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you believe you are living holy, then do you believe in confessing your sins? Some do not. Which is a problem. Also, even if you did live like a saint, your doctrine itself is teaching people to think that they can sin and still be saved, which means you will have blood on your hands for teaching others to fall into sin. For when you say that others cannot lose their salvation because of sin, then that is exactly what many of them are going to do. They are going to sin, thinking they are saved (Which runs contrary to the Bible that teaches holiness and right living).

who is living Holy?

Gods standard is the law. Is any one living today living up to that standard?

Why do you want Christ to come die again for sins he failed to die for 2000 years ago? did he pay the debt in full or not? Did not paul say he took everything which was against us, and nail it to the cross? I guess God failed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why is it so difficult for some folks to understand this?

PRIDE.

Man has to feel his did somethign to earn something, It is our human (sin) nature

 

[royalscot]

helps if you can read, what the bibles said, and not speculating on how you got righteous before god in the first place.


21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. Galatians 2:

18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. John 3
see the contrast ?
let you worldly works , save you.

if you build on wrong foundations , your house will not stand. etc

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The dog has returned to it's vomit again and the latter end is worse than the beginning for them. Meaning, the believer who turns back towards the vomit of their sin again is better off if they just remained an unbeliever. For Jesus will spew the Lukewarm Christian out of his mouth. He would rather you be hot (A righteous believer) or cold (an unbeliever). In other words, choose this day whom ye will serve. The Lord or the devil. You cannot serve two masters.

A dog is a dog (non believer)'

A person born of God is no longer a dog. he was made a new creation in Christ Jesus.

A dog, who attempts to act like a christian (but in reality is not a true child of God) Will always go back to his vomit.

You can teach an old dog new trick, he will always return to his nature.

God must make the dog a new creature,

 

[notuptome]

If you believe you are living holy, then do you believe in confessing your sins? Some do not. Which is a problem. Also, even if you did live like a saint, your doctrine itself is teaching people to think that they can sin and still be saved, which means you will have blood on your hands for teaching others to fall into sin. For when you say that others cannot lose their salvation because of sin, then that is exactly what many of them are going to do. They are going to sin, thinking they are saved (Which runs contrary to the Bible that teaches holiness and right living).

First of all God did not appoint you to judge His church. Believers have the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit to minister in their hearts when they sin. You need to pay attention to your own business and not be stirring up strife for everyone else.

I am not at all confident that your exegesis of scripture is sound so until you demonstrate some biblical wisdom I shall not expect any biblical understanding.

Gods grace is wholly sufficient. God is able to tend to His flock. God cares for the sheep that are sick and need nurturing. God tends to the sheep that are mature and sees that they have His protection. God cares for all the sheep all the time. No harm can come to the sheep in Gods fold.

Goats often wander into the flock of Gods sheep but they stick out like a sore thumb. Goats are stubborn and cannot be kept clean. The goats will be sorted out by God. The sheep tolerate the goats until God settles the matter according to His purposes. No matter how hard they try goats cannot pass for sheep.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because some people think they have salvation/eternal life coming to them even though they are not walking as the bible tells you to walk. They are lead into a false gospel teaching they can continue to live however they want, as nowhere in the bible does it say this.

WHO BELIEVES THIS?

AND IF THEY DO. they are no more saved than you are.

Both legalism is licentiousness is based on pride.

the licentious says I can live however I want, How dare God tell me otherwise.

The legalist says I can live a righteous life, And God will love me for it while doing so. He continues to live in sin, only the sin he chooses to either deny he is doing, or is blinded to the fact it is sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you did not read the part in the Bible that says if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven? Mind explaining that one?

Who who has been forgiven eternally by God is not going to forgive someone else?

We love because God loved us first.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I did not write the Bible. It is the Bible that I quote. Not myself. It is written that it is the fear of the Lord that men depart from evil. Do you believe that verse in the Bible? Also, your reply here is no way an explanation as to what I had said before. Jesus says if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. I did not say that. Jesus did. Do you believe Jesus' words here? Can you explain what they mean to you in light of the OSAS sin and still be saved belief?

so your sinless??

If not. Your last sentence condemns you. and everyone who is sinless.

Do you even listen to what you say?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not doing evil is not a work. Not stealing is not a work. Not lying is not a work. Not murdering is not a work. Not hating is not a work. These are passive things. Doing those things would be considered a work. Not a work for good, but a work of evil. When a believer is born again, they are changed spiritually and God lives within them and God does the good work within their lives. That is why it is not salvation by works. Philippians 2:13 says that is God that works within us. In 1 Corinthians 15:10, Paul says that he labored more than all of his brethren, but it was not himself but the grace of God that was withn him. Paul did not take the credit. It's why the elders had cast their crowns down before Jesus. Once a person is saved by repenting of their sins and trustng in his finished work, then good works and holiness will follow. Holiness and fruitful works are not done so as to be saved but because one has been saved. It's like wind and water. Every time a strong wind comes upon the waters, you know there will be some waves. Just as with a true believer. If God lives within a person, then God's good works will flow thru them.

sorry, But not comiting murder is a work of the law. Not comiting adultry is a work of the law.

A work is done to earn a reward. Grace is freely given.

If your "not doing evil" to be saved, then your working to earn a reward "salvation' and you have not become the tax collector. but are the pharisee.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, I do not believe in Works Salvationism. I believe works are a result of accepting God or the free gift. God does the works within a believer. However, do you need to realize that even free gifts come with some level of responsibility if you want to keep them.

For example:

If I give you a brand new car (tax free) that does not mean that you can be irresponsible with that gift. You can't run red lights, plow thru pedestrians, text and drive, drink and drive, ignore general maintainence on your car and still expect to keep your free gift. Most gifts require some kind of care involved at some point.

yet you teach a works based Gospel.

Any one who does not teach eternal life at the moment of salvation based on the mercy of God alone, teaches a works based Gospel.

You may not be teaching one must work to get it, but your teaching one must work to keep it.

Paul calls you a fool.

 

[wolfwint]

Hm, i am asking myself why you have these favorite topics.
You will got no sufficient answer. Because those who believe osas will find sriptures which support it. And those who believe to loos salvation will find scriptures too.
So it will end in a patt,ore in a fight. What god is thinking about that?

 

[Jason0047]

Amazingly. I have heard more testimony from people who left God because of legalism, and a belief that osas is not true, Because the law just kept staring them in the face, and the more they studied the word, the more sinful they were. and the more impossible and futile their attempts to meet up with Gods standard was.

Licentiousness (the false belief that one can say a prayer and live however they desire) is not very huge, legalism is not only much larger, but much more dangerous, because it has people thinking they will go to heaven, Thinking they are "good people" thinking God is happy with them and their works, when in reality the opposite is true.

that is why far more of NT scripture is pitted against legalism, than it is licentiousness. Because it is far more of a problem to the true church.



You know nothing of the chastening of God.

A non believer can sin, and suffer grave consequences. A believer will sin and suffer those same consequences, plus a more severe and harsher punishment of God. and chastening of the lord. They are held to a much higher standard.

This false belief that a person can sin and will not suffer a penalty is just rediculous.

The law imposed a penalty for anyone who broke it even one, it is called eternal condemnation. Jesus came to save us from the penalty of the law. or we all would be doomed. Because all of us have broken Gods law hundreds maybe thousands of time. Imagine all the death penalties you have out against you.

God saved us from his eternal wrath, He did nto save us from the pain and suffering sin causes every one of us, And if we are Gods children, that pain and suffering is far more severe.

all I can figure out is you legalists have never felt Gods chastening, or you would not make such comments. for YOU WOULD KNOW no one sins and gets away with it.

First, again, your experience is not reality. Just call around your area and ask the various churches in what they believe. I have talked with many people both online and in person. OSAS is not the narrow road. It is the wide gate belief. Most big named Pastors today believe in Eternal Security. Doing evil with the thinking you are saved is the wide gate belief here in the States; And it is becoming ever the more popular in other countries. Second, logic should tell you that if there is no real consequence that matters in breaking a Law, then people are going to break that Law. It's not rocket science. Most people would not break the speed limit on the highway if it involved serious imprisonment and extreme fines. Telling people that they cannot lose their salvation gives them the green light to sin until the cows come home with the thinking they are saved. You don't need to insult me. You know it's true. For the Scriptures say, be not deceived, the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

[psychomom]

Jason, forgive me if i have this wrong, please?

because you told EG his experience isn't reality, but didn't you,
in this very thread, talk about your experience with people who
believe God holds us securely?

honestly wondering....

 

[Jason0047]

so your sinless??

If not. Your last sentence condemns you. and everyone who is sinless.

Do you even listen to what you say?

Attacking me is not going to help you justify a doctrine in telling folks they can do evil while thinking they are saved.

As for your question: We are talking about the Bible. We are not on Facebook (Of which I do not agree with) so as to share my personal life with the world. So I will answer you in a third person way. Is every Christian sinless? No, of course not. David had committed adultery and murder. But the difference here is that he did not continue to murder and continue to commit adultery. David was a man after God's own heart so David repented of his sins. No great man of God was ever justified in doing evil before the Lord.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hm, i am asking myself why you have these favorite topics.
You will got no sufficient answer. Because those who believe osas will find sriptures which support it. And those who believe to loos salvation will find scriptures too.
So it will end in a patt,ore in a fight. What god is thinking about that?

he is thinking there are two gospels going around. and there is only one gospel which will save. So he is thinking some are headed to hell. and some are headed to heaven, and he needs to save the ones headed to hell

 

[psychomom]

yep...i had it wrong.

you remarked upon your experience in another thread....sorry for misspeaking about that.

 

[Jason0047]

Jason, forgive me if i have this wrong, please?

because you told EG his experience isn't reality, but didn't you,
in this very thread, talk about your experience with people who
believe God holds us securely?

honestly wondering....

Yes, I did. But the difference between us is that I did not just share my experience alone, but I....

(a) Shared other testimonies.
(b) Showed an example in real life that if there is no real consequence in doing evil, then that is exactly what most will do.