Will you listen to what God has to say about OSAS? Just scriptures?

[BradC]

Salvation is not earned but is a free gift that comes with conditions (faith) and one must maintain the conditions (faith) to keep the free gift. If one quits meeting the conditions (faith) then he no longer has the free gift. You love your children and grand-children, well God loves the world but that does not mean He will unconditionally save the world.

God's love for the world was unconditional and when He sent His Son to die for the sins of the world that was also unconditional. But now we are to believe that the salvation of God provided though faith in the sacrifice of the Son is conditional by maintaining our faith. Our faith had nothing to do with God loving us or in sending His Son to be judged for our sins but you want us to believe that once we have been saved through faith that faith somehow is the conditional means by which we maintain our salvation and eternal redemption that was obtained for us by Christ. That would make God a little unjust don't you think? Try telling that to the one you preach the good news of the gospel to and just how much power will be in those words of conditional salvation. Nothing freely given about that kind of salvation. God is the author of salvation and we are saved by the gospel of that salvation but according to you He is not the one who keeps us with His own power in that salvation. For some reason we are to keep ourselves in that salvation through the power of our own faith. Interesting!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so now you admit he knew them....but you want to impress upon people... The God of all who knows all... never knew them in no way whatsoever...that is plain hypocrisy...in my view...but then what do I know???

loonacy is hearing God say "I NEVER KNEW YOU" and making God a liar, by saying he did in fact know them.

Do you like making God out to be a liar?

 

[3Scoreand10]

Salvation is not earned but is a free gift that comes with conditions (faith) and one must maintain the conditions (faith) to keep the free gift. If one quits meeting the conditions (faith) then he no longer has the free gift. You love your children and grand-children, well God loves the world but that does not mean He will unconditionally save the world.

According to your logic, Salvation is not free.
If some one gives you something, and you have to pay for it to KEEP it , it is not free, you are paying for it.
If the Word says it is free, but you have to pay to keep it, than the Word is not true but a lie.
If you really believe that you can KEEP you salvation by your own strength and rightousness, you may not be saved after all.

 

[Angela53510]

He can pass back into death/condemnation if he quits hearing and believing. Both verbs 'hear' and 'believe' are present tense denoting an ongoing, sustained hearing and believing not something done just for a moment or sporadically.

He did not pass from death unto life unconditionally but did so because he conditionally has a sustained hearing and believing. Jn 5:24 fits in with all the verses in the OP showing salvation is conditional.

This kind of nonsense is what you get when you don't know English grammar, let alone the Greek!

"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life." John 5:24 ESV

" Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ὁ τὸν λόγον μου ἀκούων καὶ πιστεύων τῷ πέμψαντί με ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον, καὶ εἰς κρίσιν οὐκ ἔρχεται ἀλλὰ μεταβέβηκεν ἐκ τοῦ θανάτου εἰς τὴν ζωήν." John 5:24 Greek

The verb μεταβέβηκεν or metabebeken, is in the perfect, indicative active. The perfect state indicates the completed state; the believer has passed into eternal life which begins here. The place from which and to which is given with ἐκ (ek - Genitve: from, out of) and εἰς (eis Accusative: into, in, among)

Part of the Son's mission is to bring both life and judgment.

Conditional in both English and Greek would require and "if.....then" statement, which is often a participle in the Greek, which does NOT occur in this verse.

Instead, the coordinate conjunctions καὶ (kai: and, also, even, namely) and ἀλλὰ (alla: but, yet, except) are used in the Greek, which indicate NOT condition, but rather sentences which have equal value. Really, the English is wrong here because verse 24 should be all one sentence, with 4 coordinate clauses all of equal value. This sort of adding clause after clause is common in Greek (see Ephesians 1) but in English it is known as a "run on" sentence, so the translators took some liberty and added a few breaks in the sentence structure for clarity.

But periods or not, there simply is no way in English or Greek you can turn this statement that eternal life is eternal , into a "if.. then" or conditional statement. In fact, the entire second, third and fourth statements are stand alone, as are all the coordinate clauses

[h=2]Coordination[/h]Coordinating conjunctions are used to join independent clauses to make compound sentences. The coordinating conjunctions are as follows: and, but, for, nor, or, so, and yet. You can use coordinating conjunctions to revise run-on sentences and comma splices (see above). You can also use coordinating conjunctions to make writing less choppy by joining short, simple sentences. Consid

https://owl.english.purdue.edu/engagement/2/1/37/

[h=1]Conditional Sentences[/h]Conditional sentences are statements discussing known factors or hypothetical situations and their consequences. These sentences use conditional construction and verb forms, which is called the conditional mood. Complete conditional sentences contain a conditional clause and the consequence. As a refresher, a clause is a group of words with their own subject and verb. Consider the following sentence:

“If a certain condition is true, then a particular result happens.”
​

“I would travel around the world if I won the lottery.”
​

“When water reaches 100 degrees, it boils.”

Grammarly Handbook | Conditional Sentences Grammar Rules
​

 

[Elin]

This kind of nonsense is what you get
when you don't know English grammar, let alone the Greek!

Amen to that!

 

[3Scoreand10]

The Parable of the Tax Collector can be looked at in another way, too. Not only does it refute the person who thinks they can be self righteous so as to earn their salvation (i.e. Works Salvationism), which is wrong. But it also refutes Easy Believism (Antinomianism), too. For the Pharisee thought he was God's child and thought himself better than the Tax Collector. However, the Tax Collector was sorrowful before God and cried out to God to have mercy on him. The OSAS proponent who believes they can sin and still be saved does not believe they have to repent or cry out to God as being necessary. They are not sorrowful or humble before God like the Tax Collector. They are more like the Pharisee who thinks they are God's untouchable child.

Side Note:

Please take note that I am not talking about all OSAS proponents. I am referring to OSAS proponents who think they can live like the devil and still be saved and or that they can be both good and evil.

I have never believed nor taught that a person could continue to live in sin after they are saved.
I have never meet anyone who believes OSAS believes they can continue to live in sin ,
Mabe you have.
I serve my Lord and try to not sin (I fail daily) not to keep my free gift of salvation, but because of my love for Him.
I am not strong enough nor rightious enough, I am a sinner and not worthy. I pray each day for forgiveness.
I would think those who say they live without sin, or are strong enough or rightious enough to KEEP their salvation are like the Pharisee.

 

[BradC]

The Parable of the Tax Collector can be looked at in another way, too. Not only does it refute the person who thinks they can be self righteous so as to earn their salvation (i.e. Works Salvationism), which is wrong. But it also refutes Easy Believism (Antinomianism), too. For the Pharisee thought he was God's child and thought himself better than the Tax Collector. However, the Tax Collector was sorrowful before God and cried out to God to have mercy on him. The OSAS proponent who believes they can sin and still be saved does not believe they have to repent or cry out to God as being necessary. They are not sorrowful or humble before God like the Tax Collector. They are more like the Pharisee who thinks they are God's untouchable child.

Side Note:

Please take note that I am not talking about all OSAS proponents. I am referring to OSAS proponents who think they can live like the devil and still be saved and or that they can be both good and evil.

This is all presumptive on your part because you have a vindictive spirit. To be secure in the grace of God does not make the believer comfortable living in sin, he just does not get all upset when it happens and he deals with it in a godly way without making a big deal about it like you do. When others sin he covers them because of the love of God and does not go around repeating the matter. He lets God deal with the believer His way and believes in the grace of God and God's faithfulness which is full of mercy. If he has to go and restore a brother he does so in the spirit of meekness less he falls and he does not go with a spirit of condemnation but with one of love and grace.

 

[SeaBass]

God's love for the world was unconditional and when He sent His Son to die for the sins of the world that was also unconditional. But now we are to believe that the salvation of God provided though faith in the sacrifice of the Son is conditional by maintaining our faith. Our faith had nothing to do with God loving us or in sending His Son to be judged for our sins but you want us to believe that once we have been saved through faith that faith somehow is the conditional means by which we maintain our salvation and eternal redemption that was obtained for us by Christ. That would make God a little unjust don't you think? Try telling that to the one you preach the good news of the gospel to and just how much power will be in those words of conditional salvation. Nothing freely given about that kind of salvation. God is the author of salvation and we are saved by the gospel of that salvation but according to you He is not the one who keeps us with His own power in that salvation. For some reason we are to keep ourselves in that salvation through the power of our own faith. Interesting!

One has to conditionally have faith to be saved. God has a general love for all man-kind but a saving type love for those that are conditionally His children. And one can fall out of that saving love, Jude 1:21....one must continue to conditionally have faith to keep himself in the love of God.

 

[Jason0047]

I have never believed nor taught that a person could continue to live in sin after they are saved.
I have never meet anyone who believes OSAS believes they can continue to live in sin ,
Mabe you have.
I serve my Lord and try to not sin (I fail daily) not to keep my free gift of salvation, but because of my love for Him.
I am not strong enough nor rightious enough, I am a sinner and not worthy. I pray each day for forgiveness.
I would think those who say they live without sin, or are strong enough or rightious enough to KEEP their salvation are like the Pharisee.

Well, your world view is not reality. First, I have talked to people both in person and online and in person (Including a Pastor at his church) who admit that they can sin like the devil and still be saved; Second, there are testimonies of ex-OSAS propronents who felt trapped or enslaved to their sin because of the teaching of OSAS.

Ex-OSAS Proponent Testimonies.

Third, pure logic and deductive reasoning should tell you that if there is no real consequence to breaking a certain Law or Laws that truly matters, that is exactly what people are going to do. In other words, if people feel they will not get into trouble with the Law all that bad for breaking certain Laws, they will break them. For example: Take the speed limit Law on the highway. If the punishment for breaking the speed limit even just by a little on highways was spending time in jail for 2-3 weeks with heavy fines, what do you think will start to happen? More people would start to obey that Law better. Why? Because the punishment is more severe. The consequences are grave for them. Even certain non-believers do not fornicate because they know they could get sexual disease and or embarrassment by their family and friends. It is in realizing the consequence of their actions that deters them in doing what is good. In OSAS, you can sin and still be saved. You have taken away any real consequence that would matter to them. So what do you think they are going to do? They are going to sin, thinking they are saved. Maybe not everybody in the OSAS camp, but there are a good number who do so (Whether you are aware of it or not).

 

[SeaBass]

According to your logic, Salvation is not free.
If some one gives you something, and you have to pay for it to KEEP it , it is not free, you are paying for it.
If the Word says it is free, but you have to pay to keep it, than the Word is not true but a lie.
If you really believe that you can KEEP you salvation by your own strength and rightousness, you may not be saved after all.

Free gifts can and do come with conditions. The free gift of salvation comes with the condition of the work of faith, 1 Thess 1:3. Cannot keep the free gift if one quits doing the work of faith. The work does not earn salvation but is just meeting a condition God put on His free gift.

I never said I can keep my salvation by my own righteousness, that is a false straw man that continues to show up from time to time.

Rom 10:3 shows that one cannot be saved by doing is OWN righteousness but saved by doing GOD's righteousness. A major difference the faith only crowd refuses to acknowledge.

 

[SeaBass]

This kind of nonsense is what you get when you don't know English grammar, let alone the Greek!

"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life." John 5:24 ESV

"Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ὁ τὸν λόγον μου ἀκούων καὶ πιστεύων τῷ πέμψαντί με ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον, καὶ εἰς κρίσιν οὐκ ἔρχεται ἀλλὰ μεταβέβηκεν ἐκ τοῦ θανάτου εἰς τὴν ζωήν." John 5:24 Greek

The verb μεταβέβηκεν or metabebeken, is in the perfect, indicative active. The perfect state indicates the completed state; the believer has passed into eternal life which begins here. The place from which and to which is given with ἐκ (ek - Genitve: from, out of) and εἰς (eis Accusative: into, in, among)

Part of the Son's mission is to bring both life and judgment.

Conditional in both English and Greek would require and "if.....then" statement, which is often a participle in the Greek, which does NOT occur in this verse.

Instead, the coordinate conjunctions καὶ (kai: and, also, even, namely) and ἀλλὰ (alla: but, yet, except) are used in the Greek, which indicate NOT condition, but rather sentences which have equal value. Really, the English is wrong here because verse 24 should be all one sentence, with 4 coordinate clauses all of equal value. This sort of adding clause after clause is common in Greek (see Ephesians 1) but in English it is known as a "run on" sentence, so the translators took some liberty and added a few breaks in the sentence structure for clarity.

But periods or not, there simply is no way in English or Greek you can turn this statement that eternal life is eternal , into a "if.. then" or conditional statement. In fact, the entire second, third and fourth statements are stand alone, as are all the coordinate clauses

Coordination

Coordinating conjunctions are used to join independent clauses to make compound sentences. The coordinating conjunctions are as follows: and, but, for, nor, or, so, and yet. You can use coordinating conjunctions to revise run-on sentences and comma splices (see above). You can also use coordinating conjunctions to make writing less choppy by joining short, simple sentences. Consid

https://owl.english.purdue.edu/engagement/2/1/37/

Conditional Sentences

Conditional sentences are statements discussing known factors or hypothetical situations and their consequences. These sentences use conditional construction and verb forms, which is called the conditional mood. Complete conditional sentences contain a conditional clause and the consequence. As a refresher, a clause is a group of words with their own subject and verb. Consider the following sentence:

“If a certain condition is true, then a particular result happens.”
​

“I would travel around the world if I won the lottery.”
​

“When water reaches 100 degrees, it boils.”

Grammarly Handbook | Conditional Sentences Grammar Rules
​

Jn 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

Both verbs "hearth" and "believeth" are present tense denoting an ongoing sustained action. Not something a person can do just for a moment and quit or do sporadically.


Can one quit hearing and believing and still have everlasting life?

 

[Jason0047]

This is all presumptive on your part because you have a vindictive spirit. To be secure in the grace of God does not make the believer comfortable living in sin, he just does not get all upset when it happens and he deals with it in a godly way without making a big deal about it like you do. When others sin he covers them because of the love of God and does not go around repeating the matter. He lets God deal with the believer His way and believes in the grace of God and God's faithfulness which is full of mercy. If he has to go and restore a brother he does so in the spirit of meekness less he falls and he does not go with a spirit of condemnation but with one of love and grace.

I didn't write the Bible. It is God who has a problem with sin. If folks are not willing to repent and or stop in doing evil, there are going to be consequences in them doing evil. Our God is a fair and just God. Sinners against God will be punisheed regardless if they believe or confess Jesus as their Lord or not. The whole entirety of the Scriptures in regards to your right standing is a conditional one. You did not just do nothing to be a part of his kingdom. You had to choose God. That choice does not stop the moment you accepted Him. You have to choose each day whom you want to serve. The Lord or the devil. For there are only two kingdoms you can serve. Jesus says, we cannot serve two masters. For Jesus said, why do you come me, Lord, Lord and do not do what I say? The Scriptures say, you have to forgive, or you will not be forgiven. They also say that you have to love your brother, or you do not have eternal life abiding within you. These are conditions.

 

[notuptome]

Can one quit hearing and believing and still have everlasting life?

Why would one who has heard and tasted of the grace of God ever go back?

No one cannot quit hearing one can stop listening but not stop hearing. The Psalmist addressed this question when he asked wither shall I go to hide from God. Psalm 139

You are living in a land of theoretical impossibilities not the glorious promises of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

Also, it is not presumptious to say that the Tax Collector was the one who was more justifed before God. It is what Jesus says. The Pharisee was not an example that the Lord favored or said was also good. Jesus was trying to illustrate how we are to always be humble before God in being sorrowful about our sin. This is confirmed by 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, Psalm 51, 2 Corinthians 7:10. For Jesus did not condemn the woman caught in the act of adultery, but he told her to sin no more. This runs contrary to the OSAS camp belief. Jesus and the apostles always promoted holiness and never condoned sin under any circumstance. Jesus said to his disciples to pray so as not to be led into temptation. Yet, the OSAS proponent who thinks they can sin and still be saved treat falling into sin like it is a normal thing.

 

[Jason0047]

Why would one who has heard and tasted of the grace of God ever go back?

No one cannot quit hearing one can stop listening but not stop hearing. The Psalmist addressed this question when he asked wither shall I go to hide from God. Psalm 139

You are living in a land of theoretical impossibilities not the glorious promises of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If you believe you are living holy, then do you believe in confessing your sins? Some do not. Which is a problem. Also, even if you did live like a saint, your doctrine itself is teaching people to think that they can sin and still be saved, which means you will have blood on your hands for teaching others to fall into sin. For when you say that others cannot lose their salvation because of sin, then that is exactly what many of them are going to do. They are going to sin, thinking they are saved (Which runs contrary to the Bible that teaches holiness and right living).

 

[PWE]

God is the author of salvation and we are saved by the gospel of that salvation but according to you He is not the one who keeps us with His own power in that salvation. For some reason we are to keep ourselves in that salvation through the power of our own faith. Interesting!

[SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, (Hebrews 5:9)

 

[Jason0047]

I didn't write the Bible. It is God who has a problem with sin. If folks are not willing to repent and or stop in doing evil, there are going to be consequences in them doing evil. Our God is a fair and just God. Sinners against God will be punisheed regardless if they believe or confess Jesus as their Lord or not. The whole entirety of the Scriptures in regards to your right standing is a conditional one. You did not just do nothing to be a part of his kingdom. You had to choose God. That choice does not stop the moment you accepted Him. You have to choose each day whom you want to serve. The Lord or the devil. For there are only two kingdoms you can serve. Jesus says, we cannot serve two masters. For Jesus said, why do you come me, Lord, Lord and do not do what I say? The Scriptures say, you have to forgive, or you will not be forgiven. They also say that you have to love your brother, or you do not have eternal life abiding within you. These are conditions.

Edit:

Meant to say CALL ME Lord, Lord. Sorry about that. I went outside my 5 minute window.

 

[SeaBass]

Why would one who has heard and tasted of the grace of God ever go back?

No one cannot quit hearing one can stop listening but not stop hearing. The Psalmist addressed this question when he asked wither shall I go to hide from God. Psalm 139

You are living in a land of theoretical impossibilities not the glorious promises of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If one quits hearing and believing he will NO longer will have everlasting life. Therefore having and keeping everlasting life is CONDITIONAL upon one continuing to hear and believe. Eternal Securists cannot 'continue' to overlook the present tense.

There are a variety of reason one "puts his hand to the plough but then looks back", but the reasons do not change the fact he can quit hearing and believing and no longer have everlasting life.

You are basing you argument on the false assumption that if one puts his hand to plough it will be impossible for him to look back.

 

[3Scoreand10]

Well, your world view is not reality. First, I have talked to people both in person and online and in person (Including a Pastor at his church) who admit that they can sin like the devil and still be saved; Second, there are testimonies of ex-OSAS propronents who felt trapped or enslaved to their sin because of the teaching of OSAS.

Ex-OSAS Proponent Testimonies.

Third, pure logic and deductive reasoning should tell you that if there is no real consequence to breaking a certain Law or Laws that truly matters, that is exactly what people are going to do. In other words, if people feel they will not get into trouble with the Law all that bad for breaking certain Laws, they will break them. For example: Take the speed limit Law on the highway. If the punishment for breaking the speed limit even just by a little on highways was spending time in jail for 2-3 weeks with heavy fines, what do you think will start to happen? More people would start to obey that Law better. Why? Because the punishment is more severe. The consequences are grave for them. Even certain non-believers do not fornicate because they know they could get sexual disease and or embarrassment by their family and friends. It is in realizing the consequence of their actions that deters them in doing what is good. In OSAS, you can sin and still be saved. You have taken away any real consequence that would matter to them. So what do you think they are going to do? They are going to sin, thinking they are saved. Maybe not everybody in the OSAS camp, but there are a good number who do so (Whether you are aware of it or not).

I never said there are not consequences for sin.
The bible clearly teaches that God will chastise those who sin, and He has chastised me many times.
But he will never take away the FREE gift of salvation.
I have know many who would not yield to God's chastising, and their life was fill with trouble and some had their life shortened.
If men continue to live in sin without chastisement then they are lost.

 

[Utah]

But he will never take away the FREE gift of salvation.

Why is it so difficult for some folks to understand this?