It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
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K
That is absolutely correct, we as believers are to keep the Lord Jesus testimony. Which is all of His teachings from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. And we are also to walk in God's 10 Commandments, for we are called to do His will. And His will is contained within those commandments, for those who keep and walk in them show love to Him. Those who do not He says are not His.
M
1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Ohhh Mitspa...
No.... that is not explaining or breaking down that verse, that is talking about another verse. I did not ask about what John teaches in his epistle, I asked what the meaning of Revelation 12:17 was.
I see you continually grasp a hold of very vague verses.
and yes we are supposed to love Yah and other humans...
I will seek to follow what He says is love;
Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."
Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"
1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."
Yah willing those that love Him will do His will.
No.... that is not explaining or breaking down that verse, that is talking about another verse. I did not ask about what John teaches in his epistle, I asked what the meaning of Revelation 12:17 was.
I see you continually grasp a hold of very vague verses.
and yes we are supposed to love Yah and other humans...
I will seek to follow what He says is love;
Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."
Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"
1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."
Yah willing those that love Him will do His will.
C
Mitspa, YOU are confusing what's being said here by thinking that anyone that opposes what you post is "trying to push the 613 Laws" for their justification and that's a Biggest Strawman that I've ever seen and you and Atwood do this. To think that is your only point of contention is 100% groundless --- you're beating the wind with that lie.
None of us believe that we are saved by animal sacrifices, stoning adulterers or unruly kids, or anything OUTSIDE OF EVERY WORD OF THE NEW TESTAMENT.
Just law that Jesus preached and Paul and the others repeated ---- over and over and over in the NEW TESTAMENT!
Do YOU realize that you are fighting merely with NEW TESTAMENT believers here?
Do you realize that you are cutting out almost HALF of the NEW TESTAMENT?
Everyone's definition of "love the LORD your God with all of your heart, mind/soul and strength" is DIFFERENT.
Some think that "love" is just a feeling and would say "Oh yes - I DO LOVE GOD that way" but they're lives do not resemble Christ's nor Paul's in any fashion whatsoever. They still do their own thing .... they don't take up their cross and follow Him .... they don't HEAR, KNOW NOR FOLLOW the Voice of The Shepherd [Jn 10] ... they don't have evidence of the indwelling Spirit of God & Christ in their lives ie The Spirit of Truth evidenced in John 16:13.
The Spirit of Truth is not a part of their outward conversation nor lifestyle.
So what does it mean to LOVE THE LORD WITH ALL OF YOUR HEART, MIND/SOUL, AND STRENGTH?
IS HE NOT THE WHOLE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT.... EVERY WORD OF IT?
The caps are my way of emphasis --- not quite as drastic as Atwood's but hope it helps to relay what is on my heart but mainly to get across the NECESSITY OF KNOWING THE WHOLE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT BETTER THAN WE KNOW ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS PLANET, AND IF WE 'LOVE' HIM THE WAY HE SAID THAT WE SHOULD ---- WE'D REVERENCE EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDED FROM HIS MOUTH AND RECORDED BY HIS APOSTLES AND WHAT HE GAVE THEM TO WRITE FROM HIM.
You are confusing the two different "laws" and confusing 'us' with the two different COVENANTS.
We are discussing JUST The NEW TESTAMENT as a WHOLE BOOK !
Those who quote just the same few over and over and over to the exclusion of the WHOLE are normally called heretics, or cultic.
I for one spent years on one forum debating LEGALISTS and an hour speaking on radio AGAINST LEGALISTS....
so don't give me this pile of dung about us or I being a LEGALIST because you want to just continually bang the same drum of only posting a few lines that you've PULLED FROM THE WHOLE and mock us that don't with name calling and nasty statements.
None of us believe that we are saved by animal sacrifices, stoning adulterers or unruly kids, or anything OUTSIDE OF EVERY WORD OF THE NEW TESTAMENT.
Just law that Jesus preached and Paul and the others repeated ---- over and over and over in the NEW TESTAMENT!
Do YOU realize that you are fighting merely with NEW TESTAMENT believers here?
Do you realize that you are cutting out almost HALF of the NEW TESTAMENT?
Everyone's definition of "love the LORD your God with all of your heart, mind/soul and strength" is DIFFERENT.
Some think that "love" is just a feeling and would say "Oh yes - I DO LOVE GOD that way" but they're lives do not resemble Christ's nor Paul's in any fashion whatsoever. They still do their own thing .... they don't take up their cross and follow Him .... they don't HEAR, KNOW NOR FOLLOW the Voice of The Shepherd [Jn 10] ... they don't have evidence of the indwelling Spirit of God & Christ in their lives ie The Spirit of Truth evidenced in John 16:13.
The Spirit of Truth is not a part of their outward conversation nor lifestyle.
So what does it mean to LOVE THE LORD WITH ALL OF YOUR HEART, MIND/SOUL, AND STRENGTH?
IS HE NOT THE WHOLE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT.... EVERY WORD OF IT?
The caps are my way of emphasis --- not quite as drastic as Atwood's but hope it helps to relay what is on my heart but mainly to get across the NECESSITY OF KNOWING THE WHOLE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT BETTER THAN WE KNOW ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS PLANET, AND IF WE 'LOVE' HIM THE WAY HE SAID THAT WE SHOULD ---- WE'D REVERENCE EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDED FROM HIS MOUTH AND RECORDED BY HIS APOSTLES AND WHAT HE GAVE THEM TO WRITE FROM HIM.
You are confusing the two different "laws" and confusing 'us' with the two different COVENANTS.
We are discussing JUST The NEW TESTAMENT as a WHOLE BOOK !
Those who quote just the same few over and over and over to the exclusion of the WHOLE are normally called heretics, or cultic.
I for one spent years on one forum debating LEGALISTS and an hour speaking on radio AGAINST LEGALISTS....
so don't give me this pile of dung about us or I being a LEGALIST because you want to just continually bang the same drum of only posting a few lines that you've PULLED FROM THE WHOLE and mock us that don't with name calling and nasty statements.
M
Not sure of your point? But there is only one faith and that is the righteousness of God by faith apart from the deeds of the law....The law is not of faith....and the law is not "broken" into parts! Its not ceremonial and moral...its all one...every jot and tittle! And Paul makes clear what law we have been delivered from! In plan and evident words!
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
K
That is because you misunderstand what not being under the law means.
Which a number of us have been trying to show you, but you refuse to see the truth.
You believe not being under the law means it no longer applies and has been completely done away with.
This is not what the bible says, as the bible is talking about how it was done away with in the written form. Because man is weak and could not live up to the law by themselves. Now God's moral laws are written in our heart to walk in as an everyday way of life, and the Holy Spirit has been sent to us to help us walk in His commandments.
Faith comes by hearing the word of God, and in that trust you develop in what it says comes your love and obedience to Him. Through that love and obedience you repent and get baptized to receive His remission of your sins. From there you continue to walk in light, which is love and obedience to Him. In this love and obedience you show the same mercy that was shown on to you, by forgiving others, teaching them to repent, get baptized, and continue to acknowledge your own faults when you backslide (confession of your sin).
If sin can no longer be imputed on a person once they become a partaker in Christ, then there would be absolutely no way for them to turn and walk away from God. The bible once again says differently, as more than once it says only if you continue to walk properly will you remain in Christ. If you have not repented, or have not confessed your sins then you are not walking properly. Sin is no longer imputed on you after you have confessed them for that remission.
Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
Which a number of us have been trying to show you, but you refuse to see the truth.
You believe not being under the law means it no longer applies and has been completely done away with.
This is not what the bible says, as the bible is talking about how it was done away with in the written form. Because man is weak and could not live up to the law by themselves. Now God's moral laws are written in our heart to walk in as an everyday way of life, and the Holy Spirit has been sent to us to help us walk in His commandments.
Faith comes by hearing the word of God, and in that trust you develop in what it says comes your love and obedience to Him. Through that love and obedience you repent and get baptized to receive His remission of your sins. From there you continue to walk in light, which is love and obedience to Him. In this love and obedience you show the same mercy that was shown on to you, by forgiving others, teaching them to repent, get baptized, and continue to acknowledge your own faults when you backslide (confession of your sin).
If sin can no longer be imputed on a person once they become a partaker in Christ, then there would be absolutely no way for them to turn and walk away from God. The bible once again says differently, as more than once it says only if you continue to walk properly will you remain in Christ. If you have not repented, or have not confessed your sins then you are not walking properly. Sin is no longer imputed on you after you have confessed them for that remission.
Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
K
Mitspa even ignores half of the scriptures he gives himself, and even half the passage the scripture came from.
Like verse 7 in Romans 7;
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet
He is saying right there in this verse that if it wasn't for the law, he would not have known how to walk in the Spirit. What things he is to abstain from while walking in the light. He is not saying it no longer applies to him, it was his tutor to show him how not to walk. Now that Christ has come we no longer need that tutor, for we now have the Holy Spirit who will guide us to walk in those things.
Like verse 7 in Romans 7;
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet
He is saying right there in this verse that if it wasn't for the law, he would not have known how to walk in the Spirit. What things he is to abstain from while walking in the light. He is not saying it no longer applies to him, it was his tutor to show him how not to walk. Now that Christ has come we no longer need that tutor, for we now have the Holy Spirit who will guide us to walk in those things.
K
That was a showing to show us those who chose to go do their own thing, instead of staying in Christ.
If you continue to lie everyday, covet everyday, give into lust everyday, and so on......you are not in Christ.
Example:
A person who is a homosexual, can not say they believe in Him, have repented and been baptized. Then continue to live a homosexual lifestyle and be saved..............have eternal life.
K
No a person is a slave to sin because they continue to walk in them, and do not give them up..............
They say they have repented or confessed, but continue to do them constantly....That is a slave to sin.......
We are suppose to be servants of Christ, meaning we do as He instructed us to live.............
They say they have repented or confessed, but continue to do them constantly....That is a slave to sin.......
We are suppose to be servants of Christ, meaning we do as He instructed us to live.............