THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

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Mitspa

Guest
#2,441
#2,441
ELECT said:
Who is under law ?A murderer or a law abiding citizen ? Why
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Well you do understand that the Law of Moses is not the same as the Law of the USA...right? So being a "law abiding" citizen is good but it cannot justify you before God...only faith in Christ can do that.
 
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ELECT

Guest
#2,442
#2,442
Mitspa said:
No its the law that produces the desire to covet...which is idolatry ...

and you guys think other believers desire to sin like you do? Your slaves to sin!

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
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by this i know you dont know what you are talking about

The law makes a person sin to be seen as more sinful not desire to sin the law is the mirror
 
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ELECT

Guest
#2,443
#2,443
Mitspa said:
Well you do understand that the Law of Moses is not the same as the Law of the USA...right? So being a "law abiding" citizen is good but it cannot justify you before God...only faith in Christ can do that.
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you are just grapsing for straws man When is one not under grace ? what does that mean ?
 
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ELECT

Guest
#2,444
#2,444
Mitspa said:
Well you do understand that the Law of Moses is not the same as the Law of the USA...right? So being a "law abiding" citizen is good but it cannot justify you before God...only faith in Christ can do that.
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a killer is under the law that is penality not the doer of the law
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#2,445
#2,445
ELECT said:
desiring to keep law is desiring to sin :confused:
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No lying is a sin...and self-righteous hypocrisy is the sin that Christ hates above all others! Rejecting the truth of the Gospel is a sin! And being under the law makes one a slave to sin.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#2,446
#2,446
Mitspa said:
No I tell believers they are not under the law of Moses...you guys who are under the law always equate that with your desire to sin....That shows that your slaves of sin and not slaves of righteousness...why? Because the strength of sin, is the law...and that's why you guys desire to sin.
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Twist, twist, twist...............

Always trying to twist things around and say others are saying things that they did not say.
You make responses that we do not have to keep the 10 Commandments, then you make responses like you just did.
As a believer why would you kill, why would worship idols, and so on.......You speak one thing, but are actually upholding what you say we do not need to follow. That is called double talk when you uphold something you say you don't uphold !!!
 
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ELECT

Guest
#2,448
#2,448
Mitspa said:
Well if your a child..you should obey your parents...but if your a grown-up believer you should obey Christ...who said unless you hate your father and mother and follow me your not worthy of me.
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now i know you fall in this catergory
[h=1]Matthew 5:19King James Version (KJV)[/h]19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#2,450
#2,450
kennethcadwell said:
Twist, twist, twist...............

Always trying to twist things around and say others are saying things that they did not say.
You make responses that we do not have to keep the 10 Commandments, then you make responses like you just did.
As a believer why would you kill, why would worship idols, and so on.......You speak one thing, but are actually upholding what you say we do not need to follow. That is called double talk when you uphold something you say you don't uphold !!!
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What part of love wants to kill? or murder? But John tells us that if we don't love we are murders already in the heart.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#2,451
#2,451
Mitspa said:
No lying is a sin...and self-righteous hypocrisy is the sin that Christ hates above all others! Rejecting the truth of the Gospel is a sin! And being under the law makes one a slave to sin.
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Wrong again, the only sin that the Lord holds above all others is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Denying His power working in you to keep you from sin, and to help follow His commandments.

All other sins are exactly alike, and will lead you to spiritual death if you have not been born again, repented of them, or confessed them, so that you can receive that remission for them............
 
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ELECT

Guest
#2,452
#2,452
Mitspa said:
No lying is a sin...and self-righteous hypocrisy is the sin that Christ hates above all others! Rejecting the truth of the Gospel is a sin! And being under the law makes one a slave to sin.
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lying is not a in because you are not under the law but grace :confused: Does grace define sin ?
 
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ELECT

Guest
#2,453
#2,453
Mitspa said:
What part of love wants to kill? or murder? But John tells us that if we don't love we are murders already in the heart.
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sighhhhhhhhhhhhhh one moment you condemm law next moment you using law :confused: make up your mind
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#2,455
#2,455
ELECT said:
sighhhhhhhhhhhhhh one moment you condemm law next moment you using law :confused: make up your mind
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Now try to understand we are not under the law of Moses but under the law of Christ to love...I have written this many many times on this thread!
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#2,456
#2,456
Mitspa said:
What part of love wants to kill? or murder? But John tells us that if we don't love we are murders already in the heart.
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I did not say love does that, as that would be your misapplying what we say.
What we have said is that by walking in love you still uphold the 10 Commandments. The 10 Commandments do not tell you to kill, steal, commit adultery, bear false witness (lie), and so on either. They tell you to not do those things, but man is weak and does them any way. So the law even with its ordinances of death for breaking those commandments could not change men and could not save them either. Making them ministers of death instead of life.

Now with them in written in our heart, and the Holy Spirit guiding us they are no longer a minister of death, but a way of live leading to eternal life. For by keeping them with the Holy Spirit you show your love for the Lord.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#2,457
#2,457
ELECT said:
lying is not a in because you are not under the law but grace :confused: Does grace define sin ?
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No grace teaches us true godliness but the law is the strength of sin.


Tit 2:11 ¶ For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
 
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ELECT

Guest
#2,458
#2,458
kennethcadwell said:
Twist, twist, twist...............

Always trying to twist things around and say others are saying things that they did not say.
You make responses that we do not have to keep the 10 Commandments, then you make responses like you just did.
As a believer why would you kill, why would worship idols, and so on.......You speak one thing, but are actually upholding what you say we do not need to follow. That is called double talk when you uphold something you say you don't uphold !!!
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a confused soul i say things hard to understand
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#2,459
#2,459
kennethcadwell said:
I did not say love does that, as that would be your misapplying what we say.
What we have said is that by walking in love you still uphold the 10 Commandments. The 10 Commandments do not tell you to kill, steal, commit adultery, bear false witness (lie), and so on either. They tell you to not do those things, but man is weak and does them any way. So the law even with its ordinances of death for breaking those commandments could not change men and could not save them either. Making them ministers of death instead of life.

Now with them in written in our heart, and the Holy Spirit guiding us they are no longer a minister of death, but a way of live leading to eternal life. For by keeping them with the Holy Spirit you show your love for the Lord.
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No you fail to see that love is the fulfillment of all the law demanded...and that commandment is not of Moses but of Christ Who has first loved us and showed us love through His grace.
 
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ELECT

Guest
#2,460
#2,460
Mitspa said:
No grace teaches us true godliness but the law is the strength of sin.


Tit 2:11 ¶ For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
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does the law help us to deny the above as stated ?
 
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