-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
D
didymos
Guest
Yesterday I spent the day in Amsterdam.
Crazy tourist crowds and a free high from the omnipresent sweet scent of sativa.
I'm glad tot be back in my hometown again.
Crazy tourist crowds and a free high from the omnipresent sweet scent of sativa.
I'm glad tot be back in my hometown again.
Please check my poem on the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
http://christianchat.com/christian-poems-poetry/105467-seconds-we-lost-humanity.html
The questions on nuclear abolition and the suffering and pain that we inflict on others, to subjugate them and to impose our wills, lies heavy on my heart.
I feel as Christians, we, who are called to be the light of this world, have a great responsibility and we need to ask ourselves what side are we on ?
Is it countries and battles of political wills or is it to the cries of those in pain?
Isn't our God, a God of justice and the one who answers those who can't help themselves? Don't we represent HIM?
Just thoughts. I hope the poem causes you to reflect.
Thanks!
http://christianchat.com/christian-poems-poetry/105467-seconds-we-lost-humanity.html
The questions on nuclear abolition and the suffering and pain that we inflict on others, to subjugate them and to impose our wills, lies heavy on my heart.
I feel as Christians, we, who are called to be the light of this world, have a great responsibility and we need to ask ourselves what side are we on ?
Is it countries and battles of political wills or is it to the cries of those in pain?
Isn't our God, a God of justice and the one who answers those who can't help themselves? Don't we represent HIM?
Just thoughts. I hope the poem causes you to reflect.
Thanks!
we (ekklesia, all of the true believers immersed in Him, abiding in Him) are on the side of the remnant, serving God.
few in the world ever do serve God willingly.
most curse Him, and even in the troubles now upon the earth, will not even think of calling on Him for help- they will curse Him more, and they will execute us who serve Him.
they will kill us , as they have for centuries, thinking that they are doing God a service, getting HIS APPROVAL !
few in the world ever do serve God willingly.
most curse Him, and even in the troubles now upon the earth, will not even think of calling on Him for help- they will curse Him more, and they will execute us who serve Him.
they will kill us , as they have for centuries, thinking that they are doing God a service, getting HIS APPROVAL !
K
kenthomas27
Guest
You know, stories like these U.S. bombings in Japan do offend our moral sensibilities. I'm also reminded, though, that those very sensibilities were formed, ironically, by a Judaeo-Christian heritage and in many ways, so is our sense of justice and intrinsic value of human beings. At the time of the bombings i believe decisions were made justly and not capriciously and very much modeled by Christian moral codes.
Could we make similar judgments of God's destruction of the Canaanites? Was this simply a question of Moses asking "what are Canaanites doing in OUR promised land"? Or Sodom or Gomorrah when every man, woman, and child perished by fire? Was this simply a decision God made because some of the citizens of those towns were living in lascivious sin?
These stories stand in stark contrast, it seems, to a loving and thoughtful God and to His teachings. But we are also taught that our God is patient, compassionate and long suffering and decisions made are for the greater good. I think I would rather live under the auspices of governments guided by that Christian moral compass and answerable to our God of Israel. Remember when Abraham asks God (when speaking of Sodom):
"Will you indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city. Will you then sweep away the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous who are in it? Far be it from you to do such a thing, to put the righteous to death with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from you! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do what is just? (Genesis 18:25)
In effect, Abraham was cheapening the price a little. Lowering the scale of the judgement in a sense of tit for tat while God, in His Judgement, sought an answer to a more global and far reaching question; and a question not made hastily. In many ways (guided by these kinds of ultimately Christian principles) Truman and the U.S. came to the decision to use weapons of mass destruction as a means to end a fantastically cruel war with an ultimate goal of saving more lives -familiar and foe - than might be lost.
Speaking of Abraham, Moses and Canaan land, remember in Genesis chapter 15 when God told Abraham that his children would inherit the land, but not right now? He said Abraham's children would return in the fourth generation because "the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full." The Amorites were doing wickedly, but not yet quite enough to justify wiping them out. But God, who made time, was not constrained by time and was able to tell Abraham when they would reach that point.
M
MissCris
Guest
Due to a series of annoying events, my phone fell into a half a cup of coffee. So naturally I freaked out. Got it out of the coffee, took the case off...
Not a single drop of coffee inside the case, but ohhhhhhh the glitter....
Not a single drop of coffee inside the case, but ohhhhhhh the glitter....
MissCris.....I hereby declare that you are even more clutzy than my wife.
Which is quite a feat I might add.
While I appreciate your view and I can see the parallels of God leading the Israelites into the promised land, I do not think the atomic bombing of Japan can be justified by comparing the raining of sulfur by God on Sodom and Gomorrah.
[Was Japan Sodom and Gomorrah? ]
Hiroshima, the city consisted of 80% civilians.
Schoolchildren and people not directly connected to the military also died.
What about those people surviving the wars? Did they deserve such a justice meted out by the USA?
What was the sin of then 8 month old baby Koko Kondo, who had radiation sickness and for the rest of her life was studied like a guinea pig by scientists and doctors? She could never have children.
There were many such women who could never have children again.
If you read Pulitzer Prize winning author John Hersey's book, Hiroshima, accounting six survivors of the war, there were even Christian ministers who were affected by the bombing.
Here's a link to the Hibakusha and the discrimination they face.
I do know how crucial the atomic bomb was to win the war, but was it ever justified? I do not think so as a Christian.
When I think of Jesus, dying on the cross, suffering for our sake, for our sins, was it justified? By the Law, we are all sinners and deserve to die.
Jesus healed the lepers, the evil and the good. I do not think that by Christian principles any of this could be justified. [perhaps in the view of Judaism]
Sorry. :|
Thanks for the response though.
Last edited:
M
MissCris
Guest
I didn't- I just use a lot of glitter, and I always have my phone near me...glitter gets evvvvverywhere.
K
kenthomas27
Guest
I think you might be missing the point if you think i'm equating Hiroshima to Sodom. I'm not. The atrocities of war are seldom "just' and I'm not arguing the horrible aftermath of an atomic bomb dropped on a densely populated largely non-military city. You are mistaking justice with an objective; that of ending a war and hopefully saving more lives than lost. How the U.S. went about it could be argued from now till eternity and successfully on both sides. The point I'm making is that the U.S. identified with Christian values and heritage and are largely guided by that compass and that I would rather live under the auspices of that government as a superpower than one that isn't guided by those principles.
I can't defend acts of war anymore than i can acts of racism, injustice, or any atrocity. But God Himself allowed men to take His own Son to be whipped, humiliated, and nailed to a cross to die in misery - a horrible atrocious act - in order to SAVE mankind, including the very men who did it. A bigger picture - an objective was on God's mind. Not an unjust act.
I believe it's incumbent on us as Christians to live our lives as you outlined, however, with the knowledge that evil abounds and that our sense of justice, compassion, and love requires us to act paradoxically to that in order to defend it.
I REALLY don't wanna do anything today. Can I just not get up and finally watch the Lord of the Rings extended version with some tea? (I mean, I do love my coffee, but coffee has done more harm than good to me as of late. SO. I'm just gonna leave the coffee alone for now.)
Dude, we used to talk a bit back before your admin days...And I didn't even KNOW you were married! ^^0
I believe that God is always just, loving and merciful.
God's act of mercy for us, through Jesus glorified HIM.
His act, is such that every tongue shall confess, every knee shall bow that Jesus is Lord.
What you are colloquially saying , or what I inferred, is that the objective is peace, and hence this was necessary for it or the ends justify the means.
The act of bombing Japan, brought the USA glory too but of a different kind.
If you claim the objective of the dropping of the atomic bomb was solely to end the war and hence bring peace, I would like to differ based on different accounts and documents.
There were alternatives also available to this decision. [also pointed out by the article in the link]
Here are the reasons quoting from a website, with the link here : Understanding the Decision to Drop the Bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki | Center for Strategic and International Studies
Deciding to Drop the Bomb
In the lead up to the Trinity test, the top priority for President Truman was to end the war as quickly as possible with the fewest U.S. casualties. For many, this had become the overarching purpose for using the atomic bomb once it was completed. Walker notes five reasons why Truman chose to use the bomb.
*Ending the war at the earliest possible moment - The primary objective for the U.S. was to win the war at the lowest possible cost. Specifically, Truman was looking for the most effective way to end the war quickly, not for a way to not use the bomb.
*To justify the cost of the Manhattan Project - The Manhattan Project was a secret program to which the U.S. had funneled an estimated $1,889,604,000 (in 1945 dollars) through December 31, 1945.
*To impress the Soviets - With the end of the war nearing, the Soviets were an important strategic consideration, especially with their military control over most of Eastern Europe. As Yale Professor Gaddis Smith has noted, “It has been demonstrated that the decision to bomb Japan was centrally connected to Truman's confrontational approach to the Soviet Union.” However, this idea is thought to be more appropriately understood as an ancillary benefit of dropping the bomb and not so much its sole purpose.
*A lack of incentives not to use the bomb - Weapons were created to be used. By 1945, the bombing of civilians was already an established practice. In fact, the earlier U.S. firebombing campaign of Japan, which began in 1944, killed an estimated 315,922 Japanese, a greater number than the estimated deaths attributed to the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The firebombing of Tokyo alone resulted in roughly 100,000Japanese killed.
Responding to Pearl Harbor - When a general raised objections to the use of the bombs, Truman responded by noting the atrocities of Pearl Harbor and said that “When you have to deal with a beast you have to treat him as a beast.”
Yeah, you just randomly dropped the bomb on us last year, by saying, "Oh yeah, my wife and I..." like it was nothing! Like you went and got a loaf of bread from the grocery store or something!
We weren't even invited to the wedding.
I wasn't able to steal your cake. lol I mean, I've forgiven you now. We're cool. *grumbles quietly under her breath, "Hope you enjoyed the cake without me."*
(In all seriousness, I couldn't be happier for Oncefallen. And I've seen Oncefallen's wife in the Lounge before. She's really nice.
)