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Yes, they are different but only in respect to the psychology involved that drives one to commit one act in preference to the others. There does also seem to be an order and depth of depravity in these things as they appear in scripture but the end result is the same. They are all sin, they are all condemned by the Lord, and we are told they will all be subject to punishment. I do not think this is what this young man is struggling with and he can feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood him. He was clear in his OP that he knows what the Bible says regarding the issue. To be honest, I am not clear on exactly what this young man is looking for. His OP seems to indicate that he was offended because his lifestyle was challenged. Again, I hope he will correct me if I have misunderstood him. If he is looking for help to overcome this particular sin then he has my full support and I will help him in any way I possibly can. If he is just looking for someone to accept him as he continues this lifestyle in spite of what scripture says about it then I am afraid I cannot accommodate this.
I have a grandson who grew up in a Christian Home, attended church every time the doors were open, actively participated in youth ministry programs, Graduated with honors from High School, left home to attend a Christian College and completed two semesters before dropping out in the third semester and moving in with his room mate from the College. As result of my and his Father's reaction to his decision, we have been estranged for over four years (he hasn't communicated with us directly). I have spent many hours praying that God would intervene in his life, and that he would at least let us back into his life. It almost happened thanksgiving, but things fell apart at the last minute. I have received every type of suggestion possible from my friends and church family. I will tell you this and leave it there. You will find the answer to your question on your knees or face discussing it with God. All you have to do is listen. God Bless you brother.
They are different in many more ways than that. Sexual abuse is not consensual, unlike consenting gay sex; sexual abuse is unrestrictedly and unconsensually violent, unlike consensual gay sex, nomatter how consensually violent; sexual abuse is a violation of another human being's right to autonomy, unlke consenting gay sex; sexual abuse is an application of psychological and physical control that goes beyond consensual submissiveness, unlike consensual gay sex; sexual abuse is physically and psychologically oppressive by its nature, unlike consensual gay sex; sexual abuse is harmful to a degree unaccepted by the victim, unlike consensual gay sex.
The psychology that drives a person to have consenting gay sex is, as you say, very different than that which drives a person to abuse a child, yes, but the consequences of both of those actions are also very different, as are the circumstances of the acts themselves.
There's far more cause to consider homosexuality a lesser evil than child-rape (if you do indeed consider homosexual sex 'evil') than just psychological motivation in regards to the act. There's a plethora of genuine moral and ethical reasons for it, too. But outside religious prescriptions, social stigmatizations and the risk of offending traditions, there is really no reason to think that consensual homosexual sex is any more harmful than heterosexual sex, unlike child abuse.
Consenting gay peoples' problems don't arise from any intrinsic harmfulness in the act itself, but from the social exclusion, mocking, degradation, hatred, vitriol, condemnation and violence that homosexuals face from others upon disclosure of their sexual liasons or preferences.
The psychology that drives a person to have consenting gay sex is, as you say, very different than that which drives a person to abuse a child, yes, but the consequences of both of those actions are also very different, as are the circumstances of the acts themselves.
There's far more cause to consider homosexuality a lesser evil than child-rape (if you do indeed consider homosexual sex 'evil') than just psychological motivation in regards to the act. There's a plethora of genuine moral and ethical reasons for it, too. But outside religious prescriptions, social stigmatizations and the risk of offending traditions, there is really no reason to think that consensual homosexual sex is any more harmful than heterosexual sex, unlike child abuse.
Consenting gay peoples' problems don't arise from any intrinsic harmfulness in the act itself, but from the social exclusion, mocking, degradation, hatred, vitriol, condemnation and violence that homosexuals face from others upon disclosure of their sexual liasons or preferences.
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A true believer who comes to God by repentance and faith in Christ's sacrifice does not continue to live in sin. That is willful sin. True believers' behaviors are being transformed into the likeness of Christ. If we are in Christ, we become like Christ, He changes our desires to align with His. This does not mean we are sinless, we still fall short, but a war between our flesh and spirit rages on and Christian have to battle the flesh on a daily bases with the help of the Holy Spirit who resides in us.
I am sorry about your dilemma, but it is clear that once some repents and turns to Christ they are a new creature, and we leave the old man behind and more forward in the new man. Perhaps you are not saved, or perhaps you are saved and still struggling with the spiritual war between your flesh and spirit. It is not my position to eternally judge you, but the bible, especially in 1 John (please read the whole book), states that if you abide in Christ you do not live in, or continue in, willful sin and if you do, you aren't abiding in Christ and He isn't in you.
1 John 2
Sin and the Child of God
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
Praying for you!
I am sorry about your dilemma, but it is clear that once some repents and turns to Christ they are a new creature, and we leave the old man behind and more forward in the new man. Perhaps you are not saved, or perhaps you are saved and still struggling with the spiritual war between your flesh and spirit. It is not my position to eternally judge you, but the bible, especially in 1 John (please read the whole book), states that if you abide in Christ you do not live in, or continue in, willful sin and if you do, you aren't abiding in Christ and He isn't in you.
1 John 2
Sin and the Child of God
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
Praying for you!
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I was not attempting to address either the violent or non violent nature of one act over another. I was merely point out the fact that all are sin and completely unacceptable behavior. I really do not believe malstar intended for this to be a debate on the impact of homosexuality upon society. We can debate that on another thread.
Hmmm!
Is he confused? He knows. Was he seeking help or fellowship? I guess so but...
This part can "help" him, though: " ... peoples' problems don't arise from any intrinsic harmfulness in the act itself, but from the social exclusion, mocking, degradation, hatred, condemnation and violence that (...) any people face from others upon disclosure of their sexual (...) or preferences."
Is he confused? He knows. Was he seeking help or fellowship? I guess so but...
This part can "help" him, though: " ... peoples' problems don't arise from any intrinsic harmfulness in the act itself, but from the social exclusion, mocking, degradation, hatred, condemnation and violence that (...) any people face from others upon disclosure of their sexual (...) or preferences."
P
You are only "gay" (I hate using that word for this condition) if you are still having sex. Descriptions of heterosexual, homosexual, etc., refer to an action, not an inert state. I used to be heterosexual, but I am now celibate.
If you are indeed a practicing homosexual, you have to repent to be saved. Repent means turn around, go the other way.
You do want to go to heaven, I hope?
1 Corinthians 6:9,10 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God"
What it is, is simply sin. Stop doing it. Join me in heaven, my friend.
If you are indeed a practicing homosexual, you have to repent to be saved. Repent means turn around, go the other way.
You do want to go to heaven, I hope?
1 Corinthians 6:9,10 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God"
What it is, is simply sin. Stop doing it. Join me in heaven, my friend.
C
Being here has been a tremendous culture shock, if I can be honest. I've posted with some of the nicest Saints that I've met anywhere but being totally candid - I don't ever go near the 'chat' area because the few times that I accidentally have, I surely got an ear full of the totally unexpected but I've also have been thrown for a loop by many posts in the different forum rooms by even just the title of some threads, nonetheless the contents.
I feel like I've walked into an entirely new era and it's not because of my age. I'm very young for my age and have been around every block that you can conceive of before and in ministry after salvation and ministered to every type of human that one can come up with.... but it's the REPLIES that are given to those that come out with blatant sin in their titles then posts that knock me out of my chair.
Women divulging private things in an open forum instead of in the Ladies Forum and the such and men doing the same with sexual sins when there Are Men's Groups here that women don't have to be exposed to.
Yes, the posting of 'masturbation' should be done privately between the sexes -- but the fact that So Many of both genders get in on those threads that are in public for any age or spiritual condition of a person can see is just totally Thoughtless!
Now the replies on here and then calling people "Brother" so flippantly or loosely is slapping The Word of God in His Face.
Everybody that says a few right words is called "Brother or Sister" here by some --- with totally No Regard for The Word of God.
I'm posting these verses and you 'discern' who is a brother or sister in Christ Jesus!
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
To revoke membership is not excommunicate or drive someone out altogether .... as long as the person is supervised and is not alone with the young in the Church. To remove membership is Biblically applicable - and it would also be appropriate to offer Biblical Counseling to any person that is 'in' sin.
If someone knows that they ARE 'in' sin and yet gets stiff-necked that they should be permitted to have the voting privilege of a member - then they are reprobate, void of conscience and need to read the verses posted above and ask themselves if they truly want to be "A Biblical Christian or not?" --- and if the answer is honestly otherwise --- then they are just masquerading in any Biblical Christian Church that they attend and mocking The Word of God made flesh & written... void of conscience.
It's up to this person to "Choose THIS DAY, whom you will serve".
If you're not physically acting out with a member of the same gender - are not acting out sexually in any manner - whether through viewing these acts online or elsewhere, etc. etc. and Struggling to see where this is Scripturally equivalent to Consistent-Adultery .... then seek help from this or a Pastor.
If you not see from His Word where this is equivalent to Consistent-Adultery, then do not call yourself a Christian and neither should anybody else.
I am beginning to wonder how many Biblical Christians there are left in this world and it's not anger I'm feeling but am fighting tears.
I feel like I've walked into an entirely new era and it's not because of my age. I'm very young for my age and have been around every block that you can conceive of before and in ministry after salvation and ministered to every type of human that one can come up with.... but it's the REPLIES that are given to those that come out with blatant sin in their titles then posts that knock me out of my chair.
Women divulging private things in an open forum instead of in the Ladies Forum and the such and men doing the same with sexual sins when there Are Men's Groups here that women don't have to be exposed to.
Yes, the posting of 'masturbation' should be done privately between the sexes -- but the fact that So Many of both genders get in on those threads that are in public for any age or spiritual condition of a person can see is just totally Thoughtless!
Now the replies on here and then calling people "Brother" so flippantly or loosely is slapping The Word of God in His Face.
Everybody that says a few right words is called "Brother or Sister" here by some --- with totally No Regard for The Word of God.
I'm posting these verses and you 'discern' who is a brother or sister in Christ Jesus!
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
To revoke membership is not excommunicate or drive someone out altogether .... as long as the person is supervised and is not alone with the young in the Church. To remove membership is Biblically applicable - and it would also be appropriate to offer Biblical Counseling to any person that is 'in' sin.
If someone knows that they ARE 'in' sin and yet gets stiff-necked that they should be permitted to have the voting privilege of a member - then they are reprobate, void of conscience and need to read the verses posted above and ask themselves if they truly want to be "A Biblical Christian or not?" --- and if the answer is honestly otherwise --- then they are just masquerading in any Biblical Christian Church that they attend and mocking The Word of God made flesh & written... void of conscience.
It's up to this person to "Choose THIS DAY, whom you will serve".
If you're not physically acting out with a member of the same gender - are not acting out sexually in any manner - whether through viewing these acts online or elsewhere, etc. etc. and Struggling to see where this is Scripturally equivalent to Consistent-Adultery .... then seek help from this or a Pastor.
If you not see from His Word where this is equivalent to Consistent-Adultery, then do not call yourself a Christian and neither should anybody else.
I am beginning to wonder how many Biblical Christians there are left in this world and it's not anger I'm feeling but am fighting tears.
You are saying that sir, from your own opinions and viscerality.
Let´s conversely, compare it to Mary Magdaline, as a woman, who sold her body for money (and surely for pleasure). No one forced her to change, and she did changed...
The way we approached to this topic WASN´T the Biblical way Christ would deal with it, and He (Jesus) doesn´t slammed a door to a person who sought Him.
Jn 6:37 Everything and everyone that the Father has given me will come to me, and I won't turn any of them away.
Jua 6:37 All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Jua 6:37 The Father gives me my people. Every one of them will come to me. I will always accept them.
Let´s conversely, compare it to Mary Magdaline, as a woman, who sold her body for money (and surely for pleasure). No one forced her to change, and she did changed...
The way we approached to this topic WASN´T the Biblical way Christ would deal with it, and He (Jesus) doesn´t slammed a door to a person who sought Him.
Jn 6:37 Everything and everyone that the Father has given me will come to me, and I won't turn any of them away.
Jua 6:37 All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Jua 6:37 The Father gives me my people. Every one of them will come to me. I will always accept them.
C
The OP member has been a member here for well over 2 yrs and the counsel that he's received here since joining, has NOT HELPED him in the few posts & threads that he has posted and were posted in reply to his.
Will that fall on OUR heads? You bet it will - and the head of every Easy Believeism pusher!
Will that fall on OUR heads? You bet it will - and the head of every Easy Believeism pusher!
Please understand, I have nothing but compassion for this young man. Jesus always loved those with whom he associated but show me one text where Jesus refused to confront sin simply because the sinner or society may have been offended. What Jesus preached was the same as that John preached. "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." This is a call for a transformation of thought, speech, and behavior in every individual.