THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

passinthru · Dec 27, 2014

Hizikyah WROYE: But in my mind, even if He came down right now and said, "you are going to the kingdom" or even if He said, "you are not going to the kingdom" I would, I believe I would still seek the same things I do now. Still promote righteousness, and still seek to share and learn. In my heart I am bothered by the world, I will just say that. Until the world changes, I think the overwhelming sin (overflowing cup of babylon) will always bother me, .... me, former super heathen, brought out of the fire by Yah. praise Yah. I want to thank Him by doing what He says, I know im weak, but I still seek Him.
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Yes we all need to continue to seek. I strongly feel that we also need to do a few things to be more effective in ministry. I am speaking to self here but feel we all fall short in similar fashion. We are Christians right? We may disagree on some points but we all know that our future is in God. The word says that we all have been given the ministry of reconciliation. We are all to be witnesses in season and out of season. Ministers of what? The word of God. Jesus is THE WORD! ( James ). So what steals the word from us. (ponder this and I think you will see I tis not a stretch)..... [TABLE="class: table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, align: left"]Mar 4:19[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
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So the cares of this world.....can overshadow us if we get caught up in being moved by what we see. Th every ones who may disgust us th emost are the very ones who need to know the gife we have received. We are warned (Ok Hiz 'Commanded' ) to not be weary in well doing. So suck it up and go tell of the goodness of God. One plants one waters and God gives the increase. Do not be moved by what we see nor human feelings only by Love. I once listend to a tape titled " don't minister for results". Onaly reason I listened to it was because of what seemed like a stupid title LOL. it amazed me , The battle is mine saith the Lord... we only sow the word....God and him aone gives the increase. Ready? In season and out of season say s God ..... abide in Yah my friend he is and will be using you in a mighty way if you follow his ..uh.. Commands

..... Hey he is doing it already even if we don t seem to totally agree on some things ,... PRAISE HIS NAME.[/TD]
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newbirth · Dec 27, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Is Paul lying or we missed something...???why are we having sin issues...scripture says we should not be having these....
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

eternally-gratefull · Dec 27, 2014

kennethcadwell said:

Welp you just proved you do not know how to be saved.

yes you do. because if you did, you would know how to be saved, and not say things like what you said above.

its like you sin, Then go to christ, and say, He god, I sinned, I need you to sacrifice yourself and shed your blood so I can be forgiven again.

that is law my friend. and in reality, that is what yuo are doing, deny it all you want. but that is what you are doing.

Hebrews says, As our high priest, Christ procured eternal redemption to those being called.

You deny eternal redemption. and make it conditional redemption. Just like you call eternal life, conditional life.

I just pray with all I have one day God opens this truth to you

eternally-gratefull · Dec 27, 2014

newbirth said:

Nope have not missed anything.

but your still under law. because you have rejected the grace of God. by adding your works to the grace of Christ.

are you perfect??

if not. you still have sin issues.

if so. you are a liar. John makes this quite clear.

Hizikyah · Dec 27, 2014

passinthru said:

Hizikyah WROYE: But in my mind, even if He came down right now and said, "you are going to the kingdom" or even if He said, "you are not going to the kingdom" I would, I believe I would still seek the same things I do now. Still promote righteousness, and still seek to share and learn. In my heart I am bothered by the world, I will just say that. Until the world changes, I think the overwhelming sin (overflowing cup of babylon) will always bother me, .... me, former super heathen, brought out of the fire by Yah. praise Yah. I want to thank Him by doing what He says, I know im weak, but I still seek Him.
.................................................................................................................................................................................

Yes we all need to continue to seek. I strongly feel that we also need to do a few things to be more effective in ministry. I am speaking to self here but feel we all fall short in similar fashion. We are Christians right? We may disagree on some points but we all know that our future is in God. The word says that we all have been given the ministry of reconciliation. We are all to be witnesses in season and out of season. Ministers of what? The word of God. Jesus is THE WORD! ( James ). So what steals the word from us. (ponder this and I think you will see I tis not a stretch)..... [TABLE="class: table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, align: left"]Mar 4:19[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
So the cares of this world.....can overshadow us if we get caught up in being moved by what we see. Th every ones who may disgust us th emost are the very ones who need to know the gife we have received. We are warned (Ok Hiz 'Commanded' ) to not be weary in well doing. So suck it up and go tell of the goodness of God. One plants one waters and God gives the increase. Do not be moved by what we see nor human feelings only by Love. I once listend to a tape titled " don't minister for results". Onaly reason I listened to it was because of what seemed like a stupid title LOL. it amazed me , The battle is mine saith the Lord... we only sow the word....God and him aone gives the increase. Ready? In season and out of season say s God ..... abide in Yah my friend he is and will be using you in a mighty way if you follow his ..uh.. Commands

..... Hey he is doing it already even if we don t seem to totally agree on some things ,... PRAISE HIS NAME.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Mr Passinthru....

thank you for that post, words of truth. I enjoyed it so. He is clearly working!

Psalm 100:1-5, "Make a joyful shout to Yahweh, all you lands. Serve Yahweh with gladness! Come before His presence with singing! Know that Yahweh is our Father! It is He Who made us, and not we ourselves. We are His people, and the sheep of His pasture. Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise. Be thankful to Him, and bless His Name! For Yahweh is righteous, His mercy is everlasting, and His truth endures throughout all generations!"

kennethcadwell · Dec 27, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

They maybe how you need to know how to be saved by referring back to the animal sacrifices, but not for me.

I know my Lords personal sacrifice is what gives us forgiveness of sins !!!

The problem you have is that the scriptures make it clear that future sins are not forgiven until they are confessed. ( 1 John )
I do not sacrifice our Lord all over again so that I can continue to sin, I use the Holy Spirit's guidance to help me to get stronger in the areas I am weak. In Hebrews it says those who continue to sin and will not confess them are the ones who think they would be recrucifying Him again by repenting of those sins, and by thinking that way you are doing it to your own harm. Those of us who continue to confess our sins when we slip up here or there are doing what is required of us to do to receive that forgiveness.

I do not deny eternal salvation for those who continue to obey the Lord, which is what the scriptures say. What I deny is the false teaching that one can not fall from that saving grace. Paul makes it clear with the Galatians that they did fall from grace, you can not fall from something you are not a part of. Even our Lord Jesus says many will fall away, but you deny His words.

passinthru · Dec 27, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

That says so much. Great post. We are all on a journey. We can enter into a rest that God is our Father and His love has provided the plan for us to head into eternity with no fear.
Fear is not from God. We can go boldly to the throne fo grace. Not on our own accord but through the precious blood of Jesus.
Without faith we cannot please God. So we walk in faith knowing we have life in Him.
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[TR]
[TD="class: vRefb"]1Jo 5:13[/TD]
[TD="class: vDispb"]These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="class: vRefa"]

1Jo 5:20[/TD]
[TD="class: vDispa"]And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.[/TD]
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newbirth · Dec 27, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

All that repenting to the high priest did not take away sins....your response shows both folly and ignorance...you are right I don't understand one word of the garbage you are spewing...everyone understands the law only show you that you are a sinner...well except you...
I follow Christ my confidence is in Him to show me the truth...not in myself reading the law...the law does not lead you to Christ it is the Holy scripture that does ....the law shows you that you are a sinner....the goodness of God leads us to repentance...when we hear the gospel...

eternally-gratefull · Dec 27, 2014

kennethcadwell said:

you may know that is WHAT GIVES YOU FORGIVENESS.

but that is not good enough. many know this, and will never see forgiveness.

why you have not learned, is HOW IT IS APPLIED TO YOU.

I showed you how!!

but as usual, you did not read.

7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus OBTAINING ETERNAL REDEMPTION. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!

15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 27, 2014

newbirth said:

All that repenting to the high priest did not take away sins....your response shows both folly and ignorance...you are right I don't understand one word of the garbage you are spewing...everyone understands the law only show you that you are a sinner...well except you...
I follow Christ my confidence is in Him to show me the truth...not in myself reading the law...the law does not lead you to Christ it is the Holy scripture that does ....the law shows you that you are a sinner....the goodness of God leads us to repentance...when we hear the gospel...

lol. what repenting to the high priest?

lol next..

passinthru · Dec 27, 2014

kennethcadwell said:

I think that if you look closely the falling from grace spoken of here was due to them wanting to go more and more back under the law and denying grace for another gospel based on works...Man's old nature always tries to get there by works alone. Works are base don self. We all have a sin nature within that is based on self. Lucifer originated this as his fall was base don self. We all need to be Christ like in denying self , the flesh and the lusts thereof. We can step out of line in many directions but most times 'self' is the culprit. He is faithfull and just to forgive us our sins and we all have them.

StandingFirmInChrist · Dec 27, 2014

Jeremiah once said he decided to just believe God did not exist. He came to the realization that it is impossible to stop believing.

newbirth · Dec 27, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

you reject direct scripture and say you miss nothing...

does sin have dominion over you?

when you cannot deal with the truth you try the guilt trip
am I perfect?....
Christ says I can be...in fact he says I must be...

Matthew 5:48

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

he gave all that I need to be perfect...
Ephesians 4:11-13King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

2 Timothy 3:17

That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

these are same works you claim that I am adding to grace...seems like you need to be furnished unto all good works....to be perfect

kennethcadwell · Dec 27, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

Yes I know all of that you posted, but once again you want to look at only half of what was said. As you need to keep reading on in Hebrews to get and take it all in, for in the following chapters it says what the law could never do and what the new covenant consists of.

Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Then in Hebrews 10:19-25 it takes and tells us how we are to enter into heaven by His blood;

[h=1]Hebrews 10:19-25[/h]19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, (Repentance) having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. (Baptism) 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

Then he goes on after this to say if you continue to sin willfully or deliberately, depending on what version you have, you will receive a place in the lake of fire. For it says that if you continue to sin this way you trample the Lord underfoot, and make His sacrifice a common thing, and insult the Holy Spirit by continuing in sin.

newbirth · Dec 27, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

Do you not read what you write...???

passinthru · Dec 27, 2014

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: vRefa"]Isa 1:18[/TD]
[TD="class: vDispa"]Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.[/TD]
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newbirth · Dec 27, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

Do you not read what you write...???

kennethcadwell · Dec 27, 2014

passinthru said:

Yes I know it was because they went back to trying to be justified by the law, and not through grace. Being justified by the law was the sin they committed, and was given an example that any time a person takes and puts their sin before God then they do not have His saving grace. And in the parable of the sower and the seed our Lord Jesus gives us two groups that did walk in His ways for a little while, but then by either hardships or being deceived they fell from His grace by turning back to the ways of the world.

Hizikyah · Dec 27, 2014

passinthru said:

Psalm 40:16, "May all those who seek You rejoice and be glad in You! May those who love Your Salvation always say: May Yahweh be magnified!"

praises and glory!

passinthru · Dec 27, 2014

Next Tuesday there will be a steel cage match no referee no time limit falls don't count last man standing is standing...no losers. No lions just Christian against Christian. Both will end up in heaven at some point.

THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

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