THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
To start of with I never said what you keep posting that I enlarged, so please stop bearing false witness on me !!!
You are not saved if you live in unrepented sins, which means your actions have to show a true repentance.
You can not say you have repented of a sin, and then continue to do it over, and over again. The Holy Spirit is there to work in your life to lead you away from doing those things.
If you continue in willful sin, you are still living contrary and enmity to God because those sins are still your master.
You say everything short of confessing that. You would really like to say it but you know you would be laughed right out of here. If only you could listen to yourself.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
lol find me a scripture that says the Holy Spirit convicts the believer of sin and I will leave this forum altogether...

Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
John 16:8, "And when (Yahweh's Holy Spirit) comes, it will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: About sin, because men do not believe in Me; "


Romans 8:3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat; overthrow, fit, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Going back to trying to be justified by the mosaic law is a willful sin that caused the Galatians to fall from grace as Paul said, and if they stay in that fallen state they will not have eternal life. Which is why Paul was warning them.
This however is not the only willful sin that can cause somebody to not have salvation, any willful sin that a person continues to do without repenting and asking forgiveness of leads to eternal punishment.

As for the Holy Spirit convicting a believer, what do you think the term Godly sorrow means ?

Godly sorrow means you feel the conviction of the wrong that you did and will lead you to repent of it. ( 1 Corinthians 7:10 )
That's exactly what the book of Hebrews is all about..."Hebrews" ...Jews"...going back to the law...willful sin!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Confessing and repenting " turning away " from sin, then gifted with salvation and Holy Spirit.. the works come through the Holy Spirit.. You must be ready to obey and repent turn away from sin... Get Holy Ghost and do good works ..Simple

if your doing that to be saved, or stop yourself from losing salvation.

your working to be saved, those are self righteous works. not works of the spirit. because they are nto done out of love, but out of fear.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
John 16:8, "And when (Yahweh's Holy Spirit) comes, it will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: About sin, because men do not believe in Me; "


Romans 8:3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat; overthrow, fit, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."
Of sin because they do not believe...the believer of righteousness .....In Heb 10 the biblbe says clearly the Holy Spirit is a witness that God does not remember our sins anymore! So the bible is not wrong and the Holy Spirit is not confused.....you and others have just been feed a lie from the accuser...and he has been pretending the be the Holy Spirit...making believers sin conscience and guilty ...

and that's the laws job...but you deny that! lol
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
lol find me a scripture that says the Holy Spirit convicts the believer of sin and I will leave this forum altogether...

Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

2 Corinthians 7, this whole chapter Paul is talking to believers and how they should act, and that we are to cleanse ourselves of all filthiness of the flesh. The sins that we do should make us sorrowful ( convicted ) in a Godly manner, which this is saying we should feel conviction when we disobey His ways and commit a sin. Paul says that he rejoices if you feel this way, because you should feel sorry when you commit sin. For all sin is against God.
And Paul says that Godly sorrow ( conviction ) will bring you to repentance leading to eternal life.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Its another thread...but no where in the bible does it teach the Holy Spirit convicts a believer of sin.

That IS EXACTLY what the Spirit of Yahweh does, it makes sin repulsive and righteousness joy. I understand why you have the doctrine you do now. Your out of control.

Acts 2:36 Therefore, let all the house of Israyl know assuredly, that Yahweh has made that same Yahshua, Whom you have sacrificed, both King and Messiah!Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Kepha and the rest ofthe apostles; Men! Brothers, what must we do?

John 16:8, "
And when (Yahweh's Holy Spirit) comes, it will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: About sin, because men do not believe in Me;
"

lol find me a scripture that says the Holy Spirit convicts the believer of sin and I will leave this forum altogether...

Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Romans8:13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.

the Spirit of Yahweh makes sin detestable. The Spirit of Yahweh does not "sear ones consciousness with a hot iron" make them sociopaths, not worrying about their sin. That spirit that makes one ont care is called, "Molech" and is a satanic ritual called "the cremation of care" a vile and truly evil teaching.
 
Sep 30, 2014
2,329
102
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lol find me a scripture that says the Holy Spirit convicts the believer of sin and I will leave this forum altogether...

Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Leads us into all righteousness, so it would have to " convict/show us of all unrighteousness "
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Of sin because they do not believe...the believer of righteousness .....In Heb 10 the biblbe says clearly the Holy Spirit is a witness that God does not remember our sins anymore! So the bible is not wrong and the Holy Spirit is not confused.....you and others have just been feed a lie from the accuser...and he has been pretending the be the Holy Spirit...making believers sin conscience and guilty ...

and that's the laws job...but you deny that! lol
Him NOT remembering our sin and the Spirit convicting us of sin are two different things.

1 Kepha 1:13-21, "Therefore, gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the undeserved pardon that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Yahshua Messiah. As obedient children, do not conform to the former lusts you had when you lived in ignorance; But as He Who called you is holy, so you also become holy in all your conduct; Because it is written Be holy, for I am holy. And if you call on the Father, Who, without respect of persons judges according to each man's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your sojourning here in reverence; Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, such as silver or gold, from your idolatrous way of life handed down to you by tradition from your forefathers; But with the precious blood of Messiah, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot; Who truly was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you; Who through Him we do believe in Yahweh, Who raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory; that your faith and hope might be in Yahweh."
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
2 Corinthians 7, this whole chapter Paul is talking to believers and how they should act, and that we are to cleanse ourselves of all filthiness of the flesh. The sins that we do should make us sorrowful ( convicted ) in a Godly manner, which this is saying we should feel conviction when we disobey His ways and commit a sin. Paul says that he rejoices if you feel this way, because you should feel sorry when you commit sin. For all sin is against God.
And Paul says that Godly sorrow ( conviction ) will bring you to repentance leading to eternal life.
Sure that's our conscience which we should always keep pure before the Lord...but its the holy Spirit that brings us back to fellowship with God and convicts us of our righteousness in Him...not sin that's unbiblical!
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
That's exactly what the book of Hebrews is all about..."Hebrews" ...Jews"...going back to the law...willful sin!
Yes trying to be justified by the law, but this was also placed as an example for us that any time we place our own needs or wants before His then it is a willful sin that needs to be repented of. Any sin a person does that is not repented of, and asked forgiveness of is a willful sin.

Example: You can not say you repented of watching porn, then turn around say 3 years later and go back to watching porn every day without confession and repentance of it again and still be saved. You put porn in place of God again if you do this. Just like the Galatians who were once in God's grace, then turned and went back to the law to be justified.

This standard applies to all believers, once you are in God's grace if you turn from it to go back to worldly lusts and desires you last state will now be worse then the original, and like he also said if would have been better if you had not known the right way to walk then to have known and still turned away from it.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Leads us into all righteousness, so it would have to " convict/show us of all unrighteousness "
Now that's a good biblical point and where those who know the bible would consider the discussion should begin... we can if you like...but I say that seeing righteousness and who we are in Christ...is much more powerful than guilt..when it comes to sin...in fact How can I live in sin when I know what I am ...:) that God is for me and not against me ! that's how you overcome sin !
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Sure that's our conscience which we should always keep pure before the Lord...but its the holy Spirit that brings us back to fellowship with God and convicts us of our righteousness in Him...not sin that's unbiblical!
unbiblical?

John 16:8, "And when (Yahweh's Holy Spirit) comes, it will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: About sin, because men do not believe in Me; "


Romans 8:3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat; overthrow, fit, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."

Romans8:13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Sure that's our conscience which we should always keep pure before the Lord...but its the holy Spirit that brings us back to fellowship with God and convicts us of our righteousness in Him...not sin that's unbiblical!

Yes it is biblical that He convicts us of sins, that is how you grieve the Holy Spirit. By the sins we commit....
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Yes it is biblical that He convicts us of sins, that is how you grieve the Holy Spirit. By the sins we commit....
Ephesians 4

25 Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another.

30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of Yah, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Yes trying to be justified by the law, but this was also placed as an example for us that any time we place our own needs or wants before His then it is a willful sin that needs to be repented of. Any sin a person does that is not repented of, and asked forgiveness of is a willful sin.

Example: You can not say you repented of watching porn, then turn around say 3 years later and go back to watching porn every day without confession and repentance of it again and still be saved. You put porn in place of God again if you do this. Just like the Galatians who were once in God's grace, then turned and went back to the law to be justified.

This standard applies to all believers, once you are in God's grace if you turn from it to go back to worldly lusts and desires you last state will now be worse then the original, and like he also said if would have been better if you had not known the right way to walk then to have known and still turned away from it.
Yea the example being don't go back to the law...don't go back to the bondage of Egypt ...don't go back to the strength of sin.. unbelief
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Yes it is biblical that He convicts us of sins, that is how you grieve the Holy Spirit. By the sins we commit....
False doctrine!
The bible does not teach that at all...the spirit that accuses the believer is satan...which means accuser
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
You say everything short of confessing that. You would really like to say it but you know you would be laughed right out of here. If only you could listen to yourself.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Wrong, and I would not confess to something I never said.
I have always, and I say always have stated that obedience to the Lord is done out of love for Him, and the bible makes it clear that those who do not love Him are not obedient to Him !!!


To many on here want to justify their sins that they commit now, by stating they don't have to repent or confess them any more. And state that our actions do not matter, but then in the same breath say we can not live however we want.
Well if you can not live however you want then that means that your actions do matter, and that would lead to obedience to the Lord out of love for Him.

 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Ephesians 4

25 Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another.

30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of Yah, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption
lol why did you skip verses?

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption
.

Yes He is called the Spirit of grace...we are to speak grace to one another...not law and charges of sin!

Edifying means building each other up in faith ..not law!
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
False doctrine!
The bible does not teach that at all...the spirit that accuses the believer is satan...which means accuser
satan means adversary.

Satanas: the adversary, Satan, i.e. the devil​
Original Word: Σατανᾶς, ᾶ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Satanas
Phonetic Spelling: (sat-an-as')
Short Definition: an adversary, Satan
Definition: an adversary, Satan.

SO the holy Spirit does not say sin is wrong? Because that is what convicting sin is.

John 16:8, "And when (Yahweh's Holy Spirit) comes, it will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: About sin, because men do not believe in Me; "