I don't really think it's intellectually honest to equate some crimes commited by members of the Catholic church as representative of every Catholic in Earth. If you look at their written creed, molesting children definitely isn't a part of it. To say it represents all Catholics would be like saying every Muslim is a dangerous extremist , or every atheist is a mass murdering psychopath. It simply isn't true.
Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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I don't really think it's intellectually honest to equate some crimes commited by members of the Catholic church as representative of every Catholic in Earth. If you look at their written creed, molesting children definitely isn't a part of it. To say it represents all Catholics would be like saying every Muslim is a dangerous extremist , or every atheist is a mass murdering psychopath. It simply isn't true.
M
Mitspa
Guest
My issue is not with the common folks in the RCC...but its clear the leadership cannot represent God...and to ignore what is evident of their behavior and then get upset when honest people point this out....is what frustrates some who cant understand how people could be a part of this group? There is some blinding effect that goes along with religion that's hard to understand... But the true religion of Christ is pure and walks in truth and would never do these sort of things..
D
didymos
Guest
The RCC is more than a crede. The way the RCC itself is organized faciltates the abuse of children.
I'm not ignoring their behaviour, to the contrary I openly recognized it as can be deduced from the content of my last post. What I am not doing is focusing on it to a degree that paints the word 'Catholicism' with images of raped children throughout. A small minority of Catholic priests engaged in the behaviours, and a small minority of the clergy hid this fact; most Catholics had no part in it.
To be unable to understand why someone could be a part of the group because of the behaviours of a few is to suggest somehow that being Catholic is an indirect approval of the actions of some wayward priests and clergymen, but actually, the opposition to the practices of molestation from the wider Catholic community has been overwhelming.
To expect Catholics who have lived their lives without molesting children (a practice that is not part of their creed) to abandon their faith because of the actions of a few, who can't be considered adherent to the teachings, is grossly unfair.
And this should deter the common Catholic from living a pious life under the guidance of Jesus Christ's teachings why? If anything, if I were Catholic, I'd be compelled to live it fuller and better, if only to prove a point to people who would equate me with pedarasts.
D
didymos
Guest
I wouldn't call it a 'small minority of priests,' it's a well known fact that the seminaries are a magnet to both gays and pedophiles. Their (mis)behaviour isn't representative of all catholics ofcourse, but what amazes me that people still want to be member of a church that condones and even facilitates child abuse.
Perhaps they don't consider the actions of a few to be representative of their creed, which they aren't. It is a rational observation that the larger an organization, the higher the risk of corruption. Corruption however, again, is not part of the creed.
M
Mitspa
Guest
You say a "few" but its "many" and all the church from the top down has covered for these monsters and even to this day put this people in position to rape again and again... There has been NO real effort to rid your group of these sorts of people, in fact what we always see is a defense and a denial of the these things until they cannot be denied ..and hundreds of rape victims get past the fear of the church to come forth.. And you can call this a "faith" but my point is this is NOT the faith or can they ever represent the true faith of Jesus Christ.
Relative to the entireity of the Catholic people, it is few.
ALL the Church? Really? Doesn't a Church include its members? Are you saying every Catholic has covered for pedarasts?
ALL the Church put people in that position, do they?
There have been several initiatives, particularly in Ireland. My group? I'm not Catholic.
As is the nature of covering up crimes. That is not to say that thousands of Catholics don't call for reform, don't support investigation and don't oppose the crimes.
And so they should.
The crimes of some don't represent the beliefs of all. Catholicism can be, and IS, a faith, and practiced correctly I see no reason to consider it any less morally valid than yours.
Really? Defrocking a Catholic Cardinal. Arresting him, and now putting him before a public trial in which if found guilty, he will be handed over to the ICJ for "Crimes against Humanity" is not a real effort? Compiling all of the complaints and handing them over to the United Nations Security Council is not a real effort?
What do you wish? For us to burn them at the stake? Or to defrock them (which has been done) and hand them over to the civil authorities (which has been done)?
By the way, a Cardinal has been defrocked, censured, and has been arrested and charged with Crimes against Humanity in the Vatican. He is the first criminal to be tried by the Vatican since the 1700s. Reminder, A CARDINAL has been defrocked by the Pope. However, you will only see evil because it is evil in your heart.
Only 2% of priests has been found to have been involved in the molestation of children. Guess what? That's below average percentage of clergy of a specific sect. Now, 2% is too high, it should be 0. However, we know the hearts of man, and that the flesh is corrupt and weak. You would judge the 98% complicit because the 2% exist? Then every member of the Assembly of God supports prostitution, money laundering, and adultery because Jimmy Swaggart was an Assembly of God minister. All Methodists support eugenics and homosexual marriage because one lesbian minister exists in the Methodist Church and the Methodists in the 1930s supported Eugenics. All Southern Baptists support racism and slavery, because Southern Baptist theology taught that black people were at best second rate humans, at worst nothing but animals, in the 19th century. All Lutherans are anti-semites because Luther was. Where will your twisted presumption of knowledge and wisdom lead us? Back into the fires of the Reformation? Where Christian murdered Christian?
D
didymos
Guest
Again, they're not a few, they're many. Do you even know what 'creed' means, and how it functions within a church? Although it's important as (something of a) summary of the beliefs of a certain denomination (or denominations), it certainly doesn't play a direct role in the workings of a congregation. Practical theology, as a reflexion on how God's Word works in the lives of individual human beings, is practically speaking much more important than dogmatics. So yeah, dogmatics,as reflexion on the crede(s), is interesting, but primarily for theologians. A layman usually won't bother to ask if the pastor's action are sanctioned by 'the creed,' he just wants his priest to keep his filthy hands off of his kids.
A creed is just a set of beliefs (usually predefined) intended to guide a person's actions. Molestation isn't part of the Catholic one.
D
didymos
Guest
A creed is about dogmas, not about morals. That's why you won't find anything about molestation in a creed. Get it now?
Member of Catholic are product of brain washing. I am sorry for that. They teaching is design for brain wash they member.
They Teach Pope infallible and the only representative of Jesus Christ on earth that have authority to interpret the bible.
It is lie.
We read from history when catholic make a war against muslim. Now they said Muslim share the same god with catholic.
Look like now catholic tell the true. Allah who told mohammad kill infidel similar to god that told catholic to do inquisition. Killing and killing. Than make up the story look like they are tray to save people, look like other do kill not them.
[h=1]Catholic Priest Guilty In Rwanda Genocide[/h][TABLE="width: 238"]
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By Sukhdev Chhatbar
Associated Press
Thursday, December 14, 2006
NAIROBI, Dec. 13 -- A Catholic priest was convicted Wednesday of taking part in Rwanda's 1994 genocide by ordering militiamen to set fire to a church and then bulldoze it while 2,000 people seeking safety were huddled inside.
The Rev. Athanase Seromba was sentenced by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda to 15 years in prison but will get credit for four years already served. The tribunal is based in Arusha, Tanzania.
Seromba was charged with directing a militia that "attacked with traditional arms and poured fuel through the roof of the church, while gendarmes and communal police launched grenades and killed the refugees."
After failing to kill all the people inside, Seromba ordered the demolition of the church, the charging document said.
Thousands of Rwandans have turned away from Catholicism, angered and saddened by the complicity of church officials in the 100-day genocide, in which Rwanda's Hutu majority killed about 800,000 minority Tutsis and moderate Hutus in an organized slaughter to settle long-simmering ethnic and political tensions. Priests, nuns and followers were implicated in the killings, and some churches became sites of notorious massacres.
Last month, the tribunal sentenced a Catholic nun to 30 years in jail for helping militias kill hundreds of people hiding in a hospital. In 2001, two Catholic nuns were convicted by a Belgian court for aiding and abetting the murders.
Rwanda's genocide began hours after a plane carrying President Juvenal Habyarimana was mysteriously shot down as it approached Kigali, the capital, on the evening of April 6, 1994. The slaughter ended after rebels, led by the current president, Paul Kagame, ousted the extremist Hutu government that had orchestrated the slaughter.
About 63,000 genocide suspects are detained in Rwanda, and judicial authorities say at least 761,000 people should stand trial for their roles in the slaughter and the chaos that came with it. The suspects represent 9.2 percent of Rwanda's estimated 8.2 million population.
The U.N. tribunal in Tanzania is trying those accused of masterminding the genocide.
Z
Zifnab21
Guest
Z
Zifnab21
Guest
And yet Protestants have more than 2.5 times the amount of leaders who molest and/or rape children. They haven't been shut down yet. Would you explain to me why?
Z
Zifnab21
Guest
Not every leader commits crimes against children. By implication, your arguement says that protestant leaders can't represent God since approximately 11 percent of them molest and or rape children's day yet you and other people don't do anything about that.
That is bad and that pastor must be terminate.
Gang rape in the headquarter of catholic is worse. I go to Baptist church now if I know or hear gang rape happen in the baptist headquarter, as a ordinary man I can't do nothing but I will not cover it up and I will leaving the church and find another church.
- [h=3]Emanuela Orlandi 'was kidnapped for sex parties for Vatican ...[/h]www.telegraph.co.uk/.../vaticancityandholysee/.../E...
The Daily Telegraph
May 22, 2012 - A teenage girl whose disappearance in Rome has remained a mystery for 30 years was kidnapped for sex parties by a gang involving Vatican ...You've visited this page 5 times. Last visit: 12/4/14
Rape and molested is bad but Killing is worse.
By Sukhdev Chhatbar
Associated Press
Thursday, December 14, 2006
NAIROBI, Dec. 13 -- A Catholic priest was convicted Wednesday of taking part in Rwanda's 1994 genocide by ordering militiamen to set fire to a church and then bulldoze it while 2,000 people seeking safety were huddled inside.
The Rev. Athanase Seromba was sentenced by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda to 15 years in prison but will get credit for four years already served. The tribunal is based in Arusha, Tanzania.
Seromba was charged with directing a militia that "attacked with traditional arms and poured fuel through the roof of the church, while gendarmes and communal police launched grenades and killed the refugees."
After failing to kill all the people inside, Seromba ordered the demolition of the church, the charging document said.
Thousands of Rwandans have turned away from Catholicism, angered and saddened by the complicity of church officials in the 100-day genocide, in which Rwanda's Hutu majority killed about 800,000 minority Tutsis and moderate Hutus in an organized slaughter to settle long-simmering ethnic and political tensions. Priests, nuns and followers were implicated in the killings, and some churches became sites of notorious massacres.
Last month, the tribunal sentenced a Catholic nun to 30 years in jail for helping militias kill hundreds of people hiding in a hospital. In 2001, two Catholic nuns were convicted by a Belgian court for aiding and abetting the murders.
Rwanda's genocide began hours after a plane carrying President Juvenal Habyarimana was mysteriously shot down as it approached Kigali, the capital, on the evening of April 6, 1994. The slaughter ended after rebels, led by the current president, Paul Kagame, ousted the extremist Hutu government that had orchestrated the slaughter.
About 63,000 genocide suspects are detained in Rwanda, and judicial authorities say at least 761,000 people should stand trial for their roles in the slaughter and the chaos that came with it. The suspects represent 9.2 percent of Rwanda's estimated 8.2 million population.
The U.N. tribunal in Tanzania is trying those accused of masterminding the genocide.