THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

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K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Ken, the Bible says in 1 Cor 15.56, see the 2nd part

[SUP]56 [/SUP]The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

That is because the law showed us our sinful nature, and if you want to try and still be justified by the mosaic law instead of being justified by faith ( with works of love ), then you are living a sin.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a "castaway". = G96

G96
adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

-------------------------------------------------------------

G96
ἀδόκιμος
adokimos


Total KJV Occurrences: 8


reprobate, 3
Rom_1:28, 2Ti_3:8, Tit_1:16


reprobates, 3
2Co_13:5-7 (3)


castaway, 1
1Co_9:27


rejected, 1
Heb_6:8
Paul is talking about himself being rejected as a teacher. Which everyone of us should be afraid of.

Why do you people want to boast of your works, and not the work of Christ? Can you do more in your lifetime that Christ did on the cross?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
That is because the law showed us our sinful nature, and if you want to try and still be justified by the mosaic law instead of being justified by faith ( with works of love ), then you are living a sin.
Your getting at little closer to the truth... :)
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
You don't like it but its absolutely clear what it says... apart from the law...sin is dead ...the reason so many are in bondage to sin is because they are being taught the law and not the gospel.
No the reason that so many are in bondage to sin is because they don't put their full faith and trust in the Lord to repent and ask forgiveness of them when they commit them, and end up crucifying Him again and putting His death to an open shame through that disobedience.
He went through all of that for us, and some can't do a simple thing as to confess, repent, and ask forgiveness of those sins.....showing disrespect to what He did for us.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
That is because the law showed us our sinful nature, and if you want to try and still be justified by the mosaic law instead of being justified by faith ( with works of love ), then you are living a sin.
works of love?
do you have perfect works of Love ken?


and even if you did, can your works of love redeem you from the curse of the law?
 
K

Kerry

Guest
The law was given to expose sin. Because, guess what, before the law there was no law and every man did what was right in His own eye and the last day's will be the same. Can't you see that now.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
No the reason that so many are in bondage to sin is because they don't put their full faith and trust in the Lord to repent and ask forgiveness of them when they commit them, and end up crucifying Him again and putting His death to an open shame through that disobedience.
He went through all of that for us, and some can't do a simple thing as to confess, repent, and ask forgiveness of those sins.....showing disrespect to what He did for us.
yet you have proven that even when you repent and confess. you still sin. so it can not make you righteous

so your back to the law. which condemns you, because you are not perfect.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Paul is talking about himself being rejected as a teacher. Which everyone of us should be afraid of.

Why do you people want to boast of your works, and not the work of Christ? Can you do more in your lifetime that Christ did on the cross?
You don't bring the flesh into subjection by the law...the law increases the flesh and its desire to sin...
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Your getting at little closer to the truth... :)
I have always had the truth when it comes to sin, and the way you stated it earlier is that if you are in Christ it is not accounted against you. The problem is that even Paul says you can return to a life of willful sin, and if you do this and not repent then you will be cut off as in no salvation. And he said in 1 Corinthians you have to show self control in all things, which means not give into sin in order to receive the gift of salvation.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
No the reason that so many are in bondage to sin is because they don't put their full faith and trust in the Lord to repent and ask forgiveness of them when they commit them, and end up crucifying Him again and putting His death to an open shame through that disobedience.
He went through all of that for us, and some can't do a simple thing as to confess, repent, and ask forgiveness of those sins.....showing disrespect to what He did for us.
Well that's your theory...but the bible says sin will not have dominion over you because your not under law but under grace...and that the strength of sin is the law...
 
K

Kerry

Guest
It amazes me, that after two thousand years, they would still pick Barrabas and through Jesus under the bus.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I have always had the truth when it comes to sin, and the way you stated it earlier is that if you are in Christ it is not accounted against you. The problem is that even Paul says you can return to a life of willful sin, and if you do this and not repent then you will be cut off as in no salvation. And he said in 1 Corinthians you have to show self control in all things, which means not give into sin in order to receive the gift of salvation.
no paul does not say this, for he would be contradicting himself.

how can you trust in a bible that contradicts itself Ken? is that the type of bible and God you wish to worship and follow?

Not me!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
It amazes me, that after two thousand years, they would still pick Barrabas and through Jesus under the bus.

well if you can be good enough,, what do you need jesus for?
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds 7 to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
I have always had the truth when it comes to sin, and the way you stated it earlier is that if you are in Christ it is not accounted against you. The problem is that even Paul says you can return to a life of willful sin, and if you do this and not repent then you will be cut off as in no salvation. And he said in 1 Corinthians you have to show self control in all things, which means not give into sin in order to receive the gift of salvation.
I did not write blessed is the man in whom the Lord will not impute sin...God did and I didn't justify folks by faith in Christ and His Blood...God did that... I did not set folks free from the ministry of condemnation...God did that....And He is always right and righteous to justify those who have faith in Jesus Christ...God will not call dirty what He has made clean by the blood of His Son...
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
yet you have proven that even when you repent and confess. you still sin. so it can not make you righteous

so your back to the law. which condemns you, because you are not perfect.

Once again being perfect has nothing to do with the law, or sin.
Being perfect is about walking in love, the way the Lord commanded us to walk.
If you love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself then you are perfect as the word says be perfect as He is perfect. Through love we are perfected, not through law and sin or no sin.

In turn if you walk in love, you will obey the rest of the Lord's commands. So when He says be baptized you will obey to get baptized, when He says to forgive others you will forgive others, when He says if you see somebody in need you will help them. Then Jesus turns around and says if these things are not a part of your life, then you do not love Him and are not headed to eternal life, but eternal death.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds 7 to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
how many times does this passage have to be posted today (this is about the 4th or 5th time that I can remember, probably even more) before people listen to the bolded highlighted words above?


news flash. Unless your perfect, with no sin, this verse says the law will condemn you!


Last I heard, Only jesus fulfilled that aspect. thus that verse condemns us all according to the law. and even without the law. (as romans 1 will also testify too)
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds 7 to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Right Paul is warning those who trust in the law about Gods true standards..

Ro 2:17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
 
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E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Once again being perfect has nothing to do with the law, or sin.
Being perfect is about walking in love, the way the Lord commanded us to walk.
If you love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself then you are perfect as the word says be perfect as He is perfect. Through love we are perfected, not through law and sin or no sin.
do you do that 24/7?

In turn if you walk in love, you will obey the rest of the Lord's commands. So when He says be baptized you will obey to get baptized, when He says to forgive others you will forgive others, when He says if you see somebody in need you will help them. Then Jesus turns around and says if these things are not a part of your life, then you do not love Him and are not headed to eternal life, but eternal death.

Same old stuff.

We agree, if you never obey him, your headed to hell.

But we are not talking about that, we are talking about those who HAVE had faith, WHO HAVE OBEYED CHRISt (although not perfectly) yet still nto making it to heaven.


can you love others 24/7. Think before you speak. because paul at the end of his life could not do this. why do you think you can?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Once again being perfect has nothing to do with the law, or sin.
Being perfect is about walking in love, the way the Lord commanded us to walk.
If you love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself then you are perfect as the word says be perfect as He is perfect. Through love we are perfected, not through law and sin or no sin.

In turn if you walk in love, you will obey the rest of the Lord's commands. So when He says be baptized you will obey to get baptized, when He says to forgive others you will forgive others, when He says if you see somebody in need you will help them. Then Jesus turns around and says if these things are not a part of your life, then you do not love Him and are not headed to eternal life, but eternal death.
Now that's a good post...that shows the law of Christ that we are called to ... Oops .. if you walk in love you have kept all Gods commandments