THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

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M

Mitspa

Guest
#601
#601
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In Him we have no sin...we cannot sin..because God will not take the law and impute sin to us...now John does not say you cant sin too much or its unconfessed sin...he says one cannot sin...

What im hearing is I don't sin as much as so and so...that's not the biblical standard

Ro 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
 
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K

Kerry

Guest
#602
#602
It's a simple question people. If the law was sufficient then why did Christ die on the cross, He had nothing else better to do?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#603
#603
Kerry said:
It's a simple question people. If the law was sufficient then why did Christ die on the cross, He had nothing else better to do?
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Well that what Paul says...that those who teach the law are enemies of the Cross.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#604
#604
Hizikyah said:
This man posts nothing but Scripture yet you attack his doctrine... How is that possible when he only posted Scripture? and alot of your posts are not Scripture, but "Scriptural principles" and hat becomes a grey area, easy to say whatever. Easy to mix 100% stone cold truth with a little not so much truth. When anyone gives opinions this is possible.
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the pharisees spoke alot of scripture.

Yet they could not see truth.

Scripture can not contradict scripture.

God can not say you HAVE eternal life. You HAVE passed from death to life. You HAVE been adopted as his children. Your HAVE been given an inheritance which is imperishable. You WILL never die, NEVER hunger, NEVER thirst, That he who begun a good work WILL perfect it until the day of Christ.

and not mean what he says.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#605
#605
kennethcadwell said:
Wrong, for I do not preach the law.
I preach doing things the Lord said out of love and obedience to Him, and make a point that He, Paul, Peter, James, and John all show that if your outer actions do not match your belief. You have a dead faith that does not lead to salvation.

And in post # 586 all those scriptures have the same them, and that is that sin can be accounted against you again if it is an unrepented, not confessed and asked forgiven of sin. That makes it a willful sin that is not covered by the Lord's blood.

If you think that a believer can not fall away and loose salvation then you deny what Paul said to the Galatians about how they have fallen from grace, and what Peter said about believers who get caught up in sin again and overcome by them.
Both then say unless they are brought back in repentance they will not get eternal life.

Then you give 1 John 3:9 where the context here is that those who have the Holy Spirit in them will not commit willful unrepented sin, for when they do sin they will feel the conviction from the Holy Spirit that will lead them to sorrow and repentance.
This can not contradict what John said in the first and second chapters about believers do sin, but if they confess it will be forgiven. The context is unrepented willful sin in 3:9.
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Yes, you do preach law.

If salvation can be lost, your still under law.

You can deny it all you want, it is fact not fiction. The law condemns you. thus if yuo can lose salvation YOU MUST still be under law.
 
A

Atwood

Senior Member
#606
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#606
Mitspa said:
Well that what Paul says...that those who teach the law are enemies of the Cross.
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Well, Paul taught the law! Romans 7 is a good example. I think what you mean is that those who teach that Christians should keep the Law of Moses, are enemies of the Cross.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#607
#607
eternally-gratefull said:
so all these verses prove that eternal life is not eternal?

Since when?

I have eternal life. You admit you do not.

Thus you are still under the curse of the law.

You better get out from under the curse. Or you will not see heaven, just the great white thrown.
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There you go making false allegations again by saying I said I don't have eternal life, which I never said.

I said that we who are obedient through love to the Lord have assurance that we will have eternal life.


Eternal life is only received to those who remain obedient to Him. You can not claim obedience if your actions and your words don't reflect that.

Lord Jesus says over and over again what a believer in Him will do and look like, go back and read the gospel books if you do differently then anything He said then you are not obedient and do not truly believe in Him.
Those scriptures say that a believer can be overtaken by willful sin again, and if this happens they don't receive eternal life. Once again like I said through obedience you have assurance of eternal life, and that is what those scriptures are saying when they put eternal life as in we have it now. It is because of our assurance, but the actual gift is not possessed tell the resurrection.

This is why it says in Revelation blessed are those who have part in the first resurrection, because that is when we receive the gift of eternal life.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#608
#608
Atwood said:
Well, Paul taught the law! Romans 7 is a good example. I think what you mean is that those who teach that Christians should keep the Law of Moses, are enemies of the Cross.
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actually, Anyone who teaches that grace must be earned by our works is an enemy of the cross. be it works of the law. or any work whatsoever.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#609
#609
Atwood said:
Well, Paul taught the law! Romans 7 is a good example. I think what you mean is that those who teach that Christians should keep the Law of Moses, are enemies of the Cross.
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When I say teach the law...I mean to justify themselves by the law.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#610
#610
Atwood said:
Well, Paul taught the law! Romans 7 is a good example. I think what you mean is that those who teach that Christians should keep the Law of Moses, are enemies of the Cross.
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Hey there Atwood, I actually agree with you for once....LOL:)
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#611
#611
kennethcadwell said:
There you go making false allegations again by saying I said I don't have eternal life, which I never said.

I said that we who are obedient through love to the Lord have assurance that we will have eternal life.


Eternal life is only received to those who remain obedient to Him. You can not claim obedience if your actions and your words don't reflect that.

Lord Jesus says over and over again what a believer in Him will do and look like, go back and read the gospel books if you do differently then anything He said then you are not obedient and do not truly believe in Him.
Those scriptures say that a believer can be overtaken by willful sin again, and if this happens they don't receive eternal life. Once again like I said through obedience you have assurance of eternal life, and that is what those scriptures are saying when they put eternal life as in we have it now. It is because of our assurance, but the actual gift is not possessed tell the resurrection.

This is why it says in Revelation blessed are those who have part in the first resurrection, because that is when we receive the gift of eternal life.
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In these sins you say must be confessed...(or salvation is lost) what law are using to judge that sin? m the law of Moses or the Law of Christ?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#612
#612
kennethcadwell said:
There you go making false allegations again by saying I said I don't have eternal life, which I never said.
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No. You said it. because you said one can be saved and not live forever. thus it is not eternal life.

I said that we who are obedient through love to the Lord have assurance that we will have eternal life.
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Eternal life is only received to those who remain obedient to Him. You can not claim obedience if your actions and your words don't reflect that.

Lord Jesus says over and over again what a believer in Him will do and look like, go back and read the gospel books if you do differently then anything He said then you are not obedient and do not truly believe in Him.
Those scriptures say that a believer can be overtaken by willful sin again, and if this happens they don't receive eternal life. Once again like I said through obedience you have assurance of eternal life, and that is what those scriptures are saying when they put eternal life as in we have it now. It is because of our assurance, but the actual gift is not possessed tell the resurrection.

This is why it says in Revelation blessed are those who have part in the first resurrection, because that is when we receive the gift of eternal life.
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Yet John said those who are born of God can not sin.

thus whoever has eternal life, has assurance, because they can not live in sin.

You do not believe eternal life is eternal. because according to you, eternal life can end.

Something which is called eternal. which can end, is not eternal.
 
A

Atwood

Senior Member
#613
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#613
eternally-gratefull said:

the pharisees spoke alot of scripture.

Yet they could not see truth.

Scripture can not contradict scripture.

God can not say you HAVE eternal life. You HAVE passed from death to life. You HAVE been adopted as his children. Your HAVE been given an inheritance which is imperishable. You WILL never die, NEVER hunger, NEVER thirst, That he who begun a good work WILL perfect it until the day of Christ.

and not mean what he says.
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I think that in the midst of an excellent post you made a slip of the keyboard in that post, did you not? putting a period after "eternal life." I think you meant to say,
God cannot say, "You HAVE eternal life," . . . and not mean what He says."
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M

Mitspa

Guest
#614
#614
Mitspa said:
In these sins you say must be confessed...(or salvation is lost) what law are using to judge that sin? m the law of Moses or the Law of Christ?
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One cannot keep the law of Christ unless they are saved and righteous and have the Spirit of God...so you must be teaching the law of Moses.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#616
#616
Atwood said:
I think that in the midst of an excellent post you made a slip of the keyboard in that post, did you not? putting a period after "eternal life." I think you meant to say,
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well yes, they all should be followed by comma's, thank you
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#617
#617
Let me explain this...for a believer (having the spirit of god) that steals...its still stealing but its not a sin against the law of Moses ..its a sin against the law of Christ..and one cannot be condemned (unsaved) No matter how long it takes to confess and remove it from their conscience... They are in the flesh and if they continue in the flesh ..they will suffer in the flesh. And one day will answer for the liberty God has given to them...but not unsaved.
 
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K

Kerry

Guest
#618
#618
If I were to post a certain sermon by some who failed and then rose above it by the grace of God would y'all shout me down. I meant the constituents of King David were better Christians than any of us today. King David lusted after Bathsheba and tried his best to deceive her husband into spending the night with her to hide her pregnancy, and when that failed He had Him murdered and then took her as wife. A man after God's own heart.

It's a sermon by a preacher that most you will know and recognize.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#619
#619
eternally-gratefull said:

Yes, you do preach law.

If salvation can be lost, your still under law.

You can deny it all you want, it is fact not fiction. The law condemns you. thus if yuo can lose salvation YOU MUST still be under law.
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Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Only the one who does the will of the Father will enter the kingdom of heaven ( get salvation ).
Here is the truth, that every thing that our Lord Jesus said is the will of the Father for us...................

John 14:24
Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#620
#620
Kerry said:
If I were to post a certain sermon by some who failed and then rose above it by the grace of God would y'all shout me down. I meant the constituents of King David were better Christians than any of us today. King David lusted after Bathsheba and tried his best to deceive her husband into spending the night with her to hide her pregnancy, and when that failed He had Him murdered and then took her as wife. A man after God's own heart.

It's a sermon by a preacher that most you will know and recognize.
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If you think it applies...fine with me...:)
 
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