THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[Karraster]

LOL Karraster!

The third category... too funny.

hey brother! Glad to see a sense of humor here..lol .my don't we little balls of mud take ourselves soooooo seriously?

We need to take our Creator seriously..He does not change, we must conform to His government, and no mans reasoning away can change what Almighty has spoken.

 

[newbirth]

Ok I say its good to obey ..but you must see that is Gods Spirit that does this work in you and the love demanded by the law is of the Spirit ...not by willpower of the flesh

you say it is God's Spirit doing the work in you...so when a man fail or stumble...is the Spirit not working then...if a man disobey and the spirit is working in him who is to blame...??? God gave us His Spirit to follow...we have to make the choice to obey the Spirit...
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

man was doomed by disobedience....and saved by obedience...
Romans 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

choose this day whom you will serve...
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[Karraster]

Why don't you cut and paste where anyone has stated that grace is a license to sin.....!

why don't you do it for me, since there are so many on threads of yours...lol haha for sure.

 

[dcontroversal]

why don't you do it for me, since there are so many on threads of yours...lol haha for sure.

Well, does not the law have a command and punishment for those who FALSLY ACCUSE.....see you cannot even keep the LAW that you claim to uphold and promote!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well, does not the law have a command and punishment for those who FALSLY ACCUSE.....see you cannot even keep the LAW that you claim to uphold and promote!

The scriptures make a distinction between God's moral laws that are contained within the 10 commandments, and the 613 written ordinances of the mosaic law that were blotted out. (Colossians 2:14)

 

[Chopper]

The scriptures make a distinction between God's moral laws that are contained within the 10 commandments, and the 613 written ordinances of the mosaic law that were blotted out. (Colossians 2:14)

I think it is very good that one sees and recognizes this... kudos to you brother!

 

[dcontroversal]

The scriptures make a distinction between God's moral laws that are contained within the 10 commandments, and the 613 written ordinances of the mosaic law that were blotted out. (Colossians 2:14)

Exodus 20:16<--bearing a false WITNESS is in the big 10
Deut. 5:20

TO accuse and attribute things not said nor implied is a false WITNESS!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Exodus 20:16<--bearing a false WITNESS is in the big 10
Deut. 5:20

TO accuse and attribute things not said nor implied is a false WITNESS!

I know the 10 commandments, and that when you make false allegations toward another that is bearing false witness.
This goes by saying they said something they didn't, claiming to know their heart when only the Lord knows, and so on.....

The part I was talking about is that you brought up the punishments of the law.
That was done away with, and blotted out with the rest of the written ordinances of animal sacrifice, cleansing rituals, foods we can or can not eat, and so on........
The main two the sacrifice and punishments.............Lord Jesus took that on Himself, He took our punishment and became the perfect sacrifice for our sins.

 

[Karraster]

Well, does not the law have a command and punishment for those who FALSLY ACCUSE.....see you cannot even keep the LAW that you claim to uphold and promote!

What? I did not falsely accuse. Anyone here can check out your grace is unmerited favor thread and read your comments there.

 

[Chopper]

Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Col_2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col_2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with the Messiah from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Heb_9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb_9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

 

[ChristIsGod]

The bolded above was the following....
1. Assumes MOTIVE which you have no authority and or ability to do<--only God can see the hearts and motives of men
2. Is accusatory and seems to point at those who disagree with HIz<--Satan is the accuser of the brethren
3. Was uncalled for at the end of the day and was not needed to make your point of LIFTING UP ANOTHER MAN and what he believes!

Of all people to speak like this. What is that you and EG do consistently, daily, ad nauseum?

Where am I assuming "MOTIVE" as you put it?

Are not these threads with Starring: You & EG not "accusatory"?

Are those same threads and back-and-forths not "uncalled for" when you call newbirth "Nobirth" or seabass every type of fish's name but his signon name?

You are the one that read "motives" into my reply that was just gratefulness to Hiz for exonerating the 'whole' of Paul's writings -- and the very sin that you've just accused me of, you have been guilty of since I've been reading these threads since October 15th and trying to reason with you & those that agree with you - the only ones that you talk back and forth to as if the person who replied wasn't present on the thread and have watched you and some of those shred the life out of anyone that tries to show you the difference in what you're seeing in your Just-Parts-of-Paul theology.

You my friend have totally took what I posted To Hiz and taken it upon yourself to find some hidden and dark 'reason/motive' for my liking a post.

Should I do the same to anyone that replies with a 'like' to yours?

You are very incorrect in your perception of why and what I posted in a response to Brother Hiz's post and took it that way because you disagree with that post .... and I'm smiling because I hadn't even seen your post - I posted that from page 3 - where I was when I found it - reading this thread from page 1 just this morning and only one page in the middle somewhere yesterday.

The jokes on you that BEFORE GOD I hadn't seen your post yet here on page 10 because I just now got here from starting from page one. Ask the Admin to check my reading location if you don't believe me.

What you accused Jason of yesterday - applies to you as well ---- touchy, touchy, touchy.

I don't "lift up man" --- but I'm told by His Word to "exhort" those that USE THE WORD OF GOD MORE THAN THEY'RE OWN WORDS --- like you do.

I will praise anyone that uses more Scripture than their own words and will ignore those that seldom if ever use Scripture for as long as I'm a member here ... so you'll have to see that as my "motive" and nothing more and nothing less.

Good day!

 

[ChristIsGod]

Exodus 20:16<--bearing a false WITNESS is in the big 10
Deut. 5:20

TO accuse and attribute things not said nor implied is a false WITNESS!

NOW that I've finally reached "THIS PAGE" since starting from pg 1 and read through this whole thread .... I'd have to say .... what I just quoted above applies to you more than anyone that's posted on this thread.

The record of ALL of ALL of OUR posts are here to be read and I'd recommend some of those threads with you and EG be read again by you to see what's gone on between you too in "accusing and abusing" and bearing a false witness against those men that you didn't UNDERSTAND but tore to pieces between yourselves right on the threads themselves ... God only know what you two say privately taboot ... Only God knows - but it couldn't be any better than what you two say back and forth to each other while the person you're debating is right there on the thread being ripped to shreds.

And you rebuking Jason for being "offended" when you're the one crying the loudest when touched?

Ma Ma Mia!

 

[Karraster]

NOW that I've finally reached "THIS PAGE" since starting from pg 1 and read through this whole thread .... I'd have to say .... what I just quoted above applies to you more than anyone that's posted on this thread.

The record of ALL of ALL of OUR posts are here to be read and I'd recommend some of those threads with you and EG be read again by you to see what's gone on between you too in "accusing and abusing" and bearing a false witness against those men that you didn't UNDERSTAND but tore to pieces between yourselves right on the threads themselves ... God only know what you two say privately taboot ... Only God knows - but it couldn't be any better than what you two say back and forth to each other while the person you're debating is right there on the thread being ripped to shreds.

And you rebuking Jason for being "offended" when you're the one crying the loudest when touched?

Ma Ma Mia!

^bump...because it needed to be said.

 

[Mitspa]

Did you know that Paul kept the Feast days? Why is that question hard to answer? It's no sin if you don't know if he did or not, so here's a third category...(I don't know! Leave me alone!)

Well Paul knew these things where fulfilled in Christ...that's what he taught and he tells us plainly that he practiced certain things in the law to win other Jews to Christ...not because he was under any part of the law... I would say he enjoy these things as well... and we can also if we understand that they only represent what we have in Christ and do them in honor of him and in faith...but they have no power unto godliness.

 

[Sophia]

Where are these people who preach "licence to sin"? On this thread I only see two positions: 1. we must follow the Letter of the Law, by the Spirit, and 2. We fulfill the Law spiritually by having the Spirit, and good fruit is borne of the Spirit.
The result of both sides is righteous living. The issue is about WHO fulfills the Letter.
Are we responsible for physically observing the Feasts, and physically abstaining from certain foods, and physically bringing the mold in our houses to the priests to have it inspected? Or are these physical Laws still applied to us, but in a spiritual form. Don't these Laws have more meaning than just the physical?
By the Law, eating pork is an abomination, reaffirmed by the Prophets as an eternal command. Why then can we eat physical pork under the spirit of the Law?

 

[Mitspa]

Why don't you cut and paste where anyone has stated that grace is a license to sin.....!

In fact the standard of the Spirit is far beyond what any man could keep by the letter...Paul was the greatest law keeper of his day and he called all his law keeping as dung to what we have in the Spirit....

Php 3:4 ¶ Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[Mitspa]

you say it is God's Spirit doing the work in you...so when a man fail or stumble...is the Spirit not working then...if a man disobey and the spirit is working in him who is to blame...??? God gave us His Spirit to follow...we have to make the choice to obey the Spirit...
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

man was doomed by disobedience....and saved by obedience...
Romans 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

choose this day whom you will serve...
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Of course and believer should walk in the Spirit...but they cannot do that and be under law...that's the point! To be under law is to be in the flesh..

 

[Sophia]

Look at Ephesians, where Paul starts out with an "overview" of doctrine from God's perspective (the eternal vantage point), and then moves on to give instruction from a practical view (our own temporal vantage point).
He says that we are 1. chosen before the foundations of the earth, then 2. believe, receive, and are sealed by the Spirit, 3. Are kept for salvation eternal.
Then he goes on to repeat our calling, and how we are to live, and what it looks like to be a sealed, born again, predestined Believer.
The second section doesn't cancel out the first. They work together. If your view doesn't line up with both sections, then it is not Biblical.

 

[Mitspa]

The scriptures make a distinction between God's moral laws that are contained within the 10 commandments, and the 613 written ordinances of the mosaic law that were blotted out. (Colossians 2:14)

That's not true at all...and those who "break" the law into parts...reject the truth of scripture ... Not one jot or tittle can pass away until its all fulfilled...so what part did Christ fulfill and what part did he leave undone? Its ALL or nothing...like Paul said "ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW" and the term "moral" what part of Gods law is not "moral"? The Sabbath? "moral" is just another term for self-righteousness of those who think to justify themselves by the law. (there is none MORAL ..no not one)

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[Chopper]

Mistspa, I'll just be blunt about this.
Are you preaching lawlessness?
Are you preaching another gospel?