2 Kinds Of Faith
- Thread starter GracethroughfaithinChrist
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There is a difference between faith and belief Sis, you caught that but the above quoted verse from James speaks of faith before and after that verse, kinda looks like he is talking about faith in verse 19. That's why i ask if there are 2 different kinds of faith. One kind appears to be natural that we are born with, kind of like Peter had before the Resurrection, and another other kind of faith that came to Peter after Pentecost appears to be supernatural.
James 2:18-20
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:18-20
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Yes, there is only one Lord, faith, and Baptism, but we has different sects of Christianity, but suppose to be one. But it says in Matthew 18:18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven"; and so when John had Baptized others, God had others to remember what he had done as the same as Abel had sacrificed his first-born of his flock.
Matthew 26:13 Truly I tell you, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”
Matthew 26:13 Truly I tell you, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”
P
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i love (what i like to call) the Gospel of James.
and it seems chapter 2, like most of the NT commands, addresses how we are to behave with one another, yeah?
don't show partiality...and if you see someone in need and can help...help!
v 14:17
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” (I'll pray for you... )
and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
v 20
But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
the word the NAS translators rendered 'useless' is
argos: inactive, idle (Strong's)
Thayers relates it to: unprofitable; pernicious (!)
as it relates to Pentecost...do you think there's something for us
vis a vis power to carry out God's will?
i love (what i like to call) the Gospel of James.
and it seems chapter 2, like most of the NT commands, addresses how we are to behave with one another, yeah?
don't show partiality...and if you see someone in need and can help...help!
v 14:17
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” (I'll pray for you...
)and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
v 20
But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
the word the NAS translators rendered 'useless' is
argos: inactive, idle (Strong's)
Thayers relates it to: unprofitable; pernicious (!)
as it relates to Pentecost...do you think there's something for us
vis a vis power to carry out God's will?
You hinted at it, but one is not faith at all. Genuine Faith is WAY BEYOND KNOWING WHO HE IS, it involves having a personal relationship with HIM in your heart where you willingly from the heart submit to HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER; and geniunely KNOW HIM AND LOVE HIM.
False Faith = ONLY know about Him and acknowledging that the stories about Him are true. EVEN THE DEMONS BELIEVE THAT MUCH.
True Faith = Knowing for sure you are in HIS spiritual body, and that HE is genuinely in you controlling your life, because you willingly got DOWN of the throne in your heart and GAVE THAT THRONE TO JESUS CHRIST. YOUR LOVE FOR HIM, produces a STRONG DESIRE to OBEY HIM, because HE FIRST LOVED YOU. The spiritual inner personal relationship between you and Jesus Christ, is a VERY REAL in the person with True Faith. That kind of TRUE FAITH, will produce in you a genuine HUNGER TO STUDY AND UNDERSTAND HIS WORD.
The distance between False Faith and True Faith is the same distance between your brain between your ears and your heart.
Those on the Broad Road to Destruction having entered through the wide easy gate of only having intellectual knowledge of HIM, have False Faith;
Those on the Narrow Road to Life Eternal, have entered through the NARROW GATE of having submitted to HIM from that heart, receiving HIM AS LORD AND MASTER, have True Faith.
Matthew 7:13-14 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Matthew 7:23 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
The first verse is speaking to those "called" to the "vocation" to keep the unity of the Spirit in peace in the body. Is this the same kind of faith as someone who has not been born again?
Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Jude 1 goes on to say.......
4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
and.......
19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Were these "sensual, having not the Spirit" considered to be of the same faith or is there 2 different kinds of faith?
Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Jude 1 goes on to say.......
4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
and.......
19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Were these "sensual, having not the Spirit" considered to be of the same faith or is there 2 different kinds of faith?
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Not much difference between belief and faith.....meaning faith..........and not "the faith." Sometimes in Scripture the faith refers to the Church, the body of believers.......and to the Gospel of Christ it seems to me......
now, as for faith...........in my opinion, there is an earthy faith/flesh faith........or natural........and their is a spiritual faith/supernatural......
all men are born with an earthy/natural faith....believing something without experiencing it through teaching or such.........one example is we teach our children that fire will burn them.........they grow through our teaching to believe/have faith that this is true without actually sticking their hand in a fire to find out.......simplistic example I know...........but still........
the supernatural faith is the faith imparted to us through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit that empowers us/prepares us/equips us to accomplish what God has purposed us for.........this supernatural faith is described in Scripture......
"faith is the................." will dig it out later if need be..........
anyway, I believe there are two levels of faith/belief................but, now, that's just me..........so
now, as for faith...........in my opinion, there is an earthy faith/flesh faith........or natural........and their is a spiritual faith/supernatural......
all men are born with an earthy/natural faith....believing something without experiencing it through teaching or such.........one example is we teach our children that fire will burn them.........they grow through our teaching to believe/have faith that this is true without actually sticking their hand in a fire to find out.......simplistic example I know...........but still........
the supernatural faith is the faith imparted to us through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit that empowers us/prepares us/equips us to accomplish what God has purposed us for.........this supernatural faith is described in Scripture......
"faith is the................." will dig it out later if need be..........
anyway, I believe there are two levels of faith/belief................but, now, that's just me..........so
Hebrews, Chapter 11: (I like to call this Chapter of Hebrews "the faith Chapter")
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][h=4]1[/h][/TD]
[TD]Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][h=4]2[/h][/TD]
[TD]For by it the elders obtained a good report.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][h=4]3[/h][/TD]
[TD]Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][h=4]1[/h][/TD]
[TD]Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][h=4]2[/h][/TD]
[TD]For by it the elders obtained a good report.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][h=4]3[/h][/TD]
[TD]Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I don't follow.
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Each are objective. Lord, One Faith (Received Doctrine), One Baptism.
Personal faith (subjective) is not in that verse but is found in many others
Jude is also speaking of the objective faith as is Eph 4:5
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints..
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Each are objective. Lord, One Faith (Received Doctrine), One Baptism.
Personal faith (subjective) is not in that verse but is found in many others
Jude is also speaking of the objective faith as is Eph 4:5
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints..
If Easy Believism was the truth, then the demons that made up Legion, are saved too.
That is why I cannot see there being Salvation, without a willing submission and receiving Him as LORD, meaning MASTER.
Matthew 8:28-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] When He had come to the other side, to the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men met Him as they came out of the tombs. They were so violent that no one could pass that way.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Suddenly they shouted, “What do You have to do with us, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”
Luke 8:26-30 (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] Then they sailed to the region of the Gerasenes, which is opposite Galilee.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] When He got out on land, a demon-possessed man from the town met Him. For a long time he had worn no clothes and did not stay in a house but in the tombs.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] When he saw Jesus, he cried out, fell down before Him, and said in a loud voice, “What do You have to do with me, Jesus, You Son of the Most High God? I beg You, don’t torment me!”
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was guarded, bound by chains and shackles, he would snap the restraints and be driven by the demon into deserted places.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] “What is your name?” Jesus asked him. “Legion,” he said—because many demons had entered him.
Mark 5:2-7 (ASV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And when he was come out of the boat, straightway there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] who had his dwelling in the tombs: and no man could any more bind him, no, not with a chain;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been rent asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: and no man had strength to tame him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And always, night and day, in the tombs and in the mountains, he was crying out, and cutting himself with stones.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshipped him;
{A term than can mean to fall prostrate before Him.}
[SUP]7 [/SUP] and crying out with a loud voice, he saith, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the Most High God? I adjure thee by God, torment me not.
IF ONLY ACKNOWLEDGING WHO JESUS IS WAS EQUAL TO BEING SAVED, LIKE EASY BELIEVISM WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE, THEN THOSE DEMONS ARE SAVED TOO. BUT NO, THE BIBLE MAKES IT CLEAR THAT WE ARE TO RECEIVE HIM AS LORD, WHICH MEANS TO SUBMIT TO HIM AS MASTER.
John 1:12-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.
John 3:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him,
Romans 10:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess {Not just profess it.} with your mouth Jesus as Lord, {Which means submitting to Him as Master.} and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Romans 5:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit {The born again experience, and NO LOVE equals NOT SAVED.} who was given to us.
THEREFORE, it becomes obvious that the Demons knowledge of who Christ is, was not True Faith, only head knowledge of WHO Jesus was.
That is why I cannot see there being Salvation, without a willing submission and receiving Him as LORD, meaning MASTER.
Matthew 8:28-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] When He had come to the other side, to the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men met Him as they came out of the tombs. They were so violent that no one could pass that way.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Suddenly they shouted, “What do You have to do with us, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”
Luke 8:26-30 (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] Then they sailed to the region of the Gerasenes, which is opposite Galilee.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] When He got out on land, a demon-possessed man from the town met Him. For a long time he had worn no clothes and did not stay in a house but in the tombs.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] When he saw Jesus, he cried out, fell down before Him, and said in a loud voice, “What do You have to do with me, Jesus, You Son of the Most High God? I beg You, don’t torment me!”
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was guarded, bound by chains and shackles, he would snap the restraints and be driven by the demon into deserted places.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] “What is your name?” Jesus asked him. “Legion,” he said—because many demons had entered him.
Mark 5:2-7 (ASV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And when he was come out of the boat, straightway there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] who had his dwelling in the tombs: and no man could any more bind him, no, not with a chain;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been rent asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: and no man had strength to tame him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And always, night and day, in the tombs and in the mountains, he was crying out, and cutting himself with stones.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshipped him;
{A term than can mean to fall prostrate before Him.}
[SUP]7 [/SUP] and crying out with a loud voice, he saith, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the Most High God? I adjure thee by God, torment me not.
IF ONLY ACKNOWLEDGING WHO JESUS IS WAS EQUAL TO BEING SAVED, LIKE EASY BELIEVISM WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE, THEN THOSE DEMONS ARE SAVED TOO. BUT NO, THE BIBLE MAKES IT CLEAR THAT WE ARE TO RECEIVE HIM AS LORD, WHICH MEANS TO SUBMIT TO HIM AS MASTER.
John 1:12-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.
John 3:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him,
Romans 10:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess {Not just profess it.} with your mouth Jesus as Lord, {Which means submitting to Him as Master.} and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Romans 5:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit {The born again experience, and NO LOVE equals NOT SAVED.} who was given to us.
THEREFORE, it becomes obvious that the Demons knowledge of who Christ is, was not True Faith, only head knowledge of WHO Jesus was.