Paul And James in Total, Complete Agreement On Works
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lol.. those in christ do obey him, because God produces fruit them.
it is not the branch of the tree which does the work of producing the fruit, it is the life blood of the root which does the work of producing fruit.
your messed up dude, you think you can do work with no blood? without blood your dead. and can do not work period!
it is not the branch of the tree which does the work of producing the fruit, it is the life blood of the root which does the work of producing fruit.
your messed up dude, you think you can do work with no blood? without blood your dead. and can do not work period!
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hmm..
Ok so paul lied.
we are not justified freely, we have to pay for it by our own work.
abraham was not justified apart from works, he was justified because of all the great works he did.
it was not the blood of christ which redeemed us and gave is the gift of justification, it was our own blood sweat and tears.
ok I got you (NOT)
James did not say we are justified by works, he said our FAITH is proved real by works. and not dead.
Ok so paul lied.
we are not justified freely, we have to pay for it by our own work.
abraham was not justified apart from works, he was justified because of all the great works he did.
it was not the blood of christ which redeemed us and gave is the gift of justification, it was our own blood sweat and tears.
ok I got you (NOT)
James did not say we are justified by works, he said our FAITH is proved real by works. and not dead.
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yep. since he did not have faith he was never saved. proven by the fact, he did not work.
no. James says no saving faith, no justification. those who have faith WILL do work.
so in a sense, One who has faith is justified, and one who is justified will work. So in a sense, we are saved by work also (not literally saved by works, he would not contradict paul, but since works will be performed by the one who has true faith. those justified will do work also)
no. James says no saving faith, no justification. those who have faith WILL do work.
so in a sense, One who has faith is justified, and one who is justified will work. So in a sense, we are saved by work also (not literally saved by works, he would not contradict paul, but since works will be performed by the one who has true faith. those justified will do work also)
Justified freely by His grace...that is in Christ Jesus.
1) You have not yet shown how one can get in Christ Jeuss without obeying Christ, taht is, get in Christ Jesus while doing Unrightoeusness/disobedience.
2) where did Paul say that God's grace is UNcondtional He did not. God's grace, which came freely, comes with conditions and meeting those conditions can never earn the grace.
By doing 409876302 and ONE work....well maybe two, no three.....well I just don't know if I have done enough...what If I am one short....now I am sweating as I cannot know for sure....! <----workers for salvation
Justified by grace dia faith is what I will take any day.....and that being the FAITH OF JESUS!
Justified by grace dia faith is what I will take any day.....and that being the FAITH OF JESUS!
You already says one only has a claim to faith without works.
Therefore works are necessary to have the genuine faith (not just a claim) and the genuine faith necessary to be saved.
You posted "no. James says no saving faith, no justification. those who have faith WILL do work."
James- by works a man is justified
You - man is justified by faith only for some unknown reason then does works.
I see the obvious difference between what James ACTUALLY said and what you are trying to make James say.
James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
The faith only crowd does not want works to be the means by which man is justified. They want man justified by faith only yet James clearly, plainly rules out faith only being the means by which man is justified.
So we are back to the question:
If works was not the means by which Abraham was justified, then for what reason was Abraham justified?
[Cannot say Abraham was justified by faith only for James has already ruled that idea out.]
So if not his obedient works, then what reason was Abraham justified?
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No I did not say this, I said one claimed to have faith and were liars, because their faith was dead.
if their faith was alive it would have produced works.
so tell me.
James said if one claims to have faith but has NO WORKS.
how many works does it take to prove my faith was not dead? 1? 5? 10? 100? 1000? what is the cut off of a dead faith to a real faith which saves? can you tell us? we do not want to be lost because we did not do enough works.
if their faith was alive it would have produced works.
so tell me.
James said if one claims to have faith but has NO WORKS.
how many works does it take to prove my faith was not dead? 1? 5? 10? 100? 1000? what is the cut off of a dead faith to a real faith which saves? can you tell us? we do not want to be lost because we did not do enough works.
One must be a branch of the vine before he can produce good works/fruit.
You first have to determine how one becomes a branch in Christ. You say God attaches one to the Vine. But did not explain WHO and WHY would God attach one to the Vine. Is is just randomness a man is attached to the Vine by God? Some unknown reason? Obedience to God then God attaches one to the vine where then that disciple/Christian can do good works/bear fruit?
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HEY You agree with me, now how does one get attached to the vine? who does the attaching?
God says how one is attached, and who is attached.
Those who have heard his word. trust the word, places their faith in the word, and calls out on the nae of the lord to be saved by faith.
Then God attaches you, and you produce fruit (do good works)
those in james were never attached to the vine if they were, they would have produced good works.
God says how one is attached, and who is attached.
Those who have heard his word. trust the word, places their faith in the word, and calls out on the nae of the lord to be saved by faith.
Then God attaches you, and you produce fruit (do good works)
those in james were never attached to the vine if they were, they would have produced good works.