Is there such a thing as an atheist?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 25, 2013
2,260
10
0
To me as an atheist, I put MORE value on human life. To an atheist this is The only life we have so we value our own and others' so much more.
Agreed. Just think of the Islamic extremists. They put no value on human life at all. They are quick to enforce what they think is God's judgement and murder those who they believe are immoral, and they are quick themselves to enter paradise. The states in the USA that have the highest rate of executions are the ones, I think, who are the most religious. Conservative Christians tend to favour the death penalty, while secular atheists are most likely to be opposed.
 
Aug 25, 2013
2,260
10
0
Even a single-cell amoeba has remarkable complexities including pre-programmed DNA. Programmed code is basically impossible without a programmer.

I also found this claim that the quantity of DNA is a single cell amoeba is 200 times greater than the amount of DNA in a a human being.

Link: amoeba dubia has 200 tmes more DNA than people
I don't know whether this is so or not, but in any case none of this changes my original point. A few million years is not enough time for a sentient being to evolve, and amoebas are definitely not sentient.
 
Aug 25, 2013
2,260
10
0
The professing church (including preachers in pulpits) includes false professors and hypocrites. Jesus foretold this during multiple events. One was at the Sermon on the Mount (See Matthew 7) and one was near the end of his public ministry and the Parable of the Ten Virgins.
These individuals, for the most part, started out as deeply religious. My point was to show that most of them lost their faith for reasons that had nothing to do with science.

nl said:
If we take the Parable of the Ten Virgins as a representative model, then the percentage of false professors and hypocrites is around one-half.
You cannot calculate the number of atheists in the pulpits of America based upon a biblical parable.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
To me as an atheist, I put MORE value on human life. To an atheist this is The only life we have so we value our own and others' so much more.
do you value human life more than other kinds of life? if so, why?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
I don't understand what you are getting at. I do believe, however, that all of our choices originate with our own brain activity, and I do think our choices are our own.
I'll try a different approach... I don't know of any natural process in the brain which would produce what people normally call choice... so, believing in choice is then believing in something supernatural... if someone knows of such a process, I'm interested...
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
Knowing God is, is what leads me to believe. I don't believe because it seems like the better choice. I simply believe truth. It is immutable, so whether or not you prefer it, or an alternative is irrelevant. Because you prefer to value human life over not valuing it isn't reason enough to have faith, imho. I have faith because I know God exists and I know He wants me to live with Him in eternity. Since that means He only wants what is best for me, then that fact is what compels me to follow His advice and commands.
do you know Good by some process other than faith?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
Agreed. Just think of the Islamic extremists. They put no value on human life at all. They are quick to enforce what they think is God's judgement and murder those who they believe are immoral, and they are quick themselves to enter paradise. The states in the USA that have the highest rate of executions are the ones, I think, who are the most religious. Conservative Christians tend to favour the death penalty, while secular atheists are most likely to be opposed.
a person can choose to value human life, of course... just as we can choose to value red over blue... suppose, for whatever reason, I found I was happier when I valued dolphin life over human life... can you think of any reason to change my mind?
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
933
22
18
Accelerating Expansion of the Universe

Observations now indicate that the universe is expanding and expanding at an accelerating rate.

Normally, it requires a strong push from something like an engine to cause acceleration. So, what is the "engine" of the acceleration of the universe? Scientists speculate and say that is something called "dark energy".

Dark energy is a hypothetical form of energy which is proposed to permeate all of space at a low but effective density and to cause the accelerating expansion of the universe.

As the universe expands, we could expect that eventually we would see no stars because they would all be too far away.

Science just doesn't know the explanation of why the universe would expand and expand at an accelerating rate. Science can hypothesize. Science can speculate. Science doesn't know all things. Science isn't God.
 
Oct 24, 2014
595
14
0
Accelerating Expansion of the Universe

Observations now indicate that the universe is expanding and expanding at an accelerating rate.

Normally, it requires a strong push from something like an engine to cause acceleration. So, what is the "engine" of the acceleration of the universe? Scientists speculate and say that is something called "dark energy".

Dark energy is a hypothetical form of energy which is proposed to permeate all of space at a low but effective density and to cause the accelerating expansion of the universe.

As the universe expands, we could expect that eventually we would see no stars because they would all be too far away.

Science just doesn't know the explanation of why the universe would expand and expand at an accelerating rate. Science can hypothesize. Science can speculate. Science doesn't know all things. Science isn't God.
I can hardly wait for the Big Rip! :)
 
Aug 30, 2014
103
2
0
Accelerating Expansion of the Universe

Observations now indicate that the universe is expanding and expanding at an accelerating rate.

Normally, it requires a strong push from something like an engine to cause acceleration. So, what is the "engine" of the acceleration of the universe? Scientists speculate and say that is something called "dark energy".

Dark energy is a hypothetical form of energy which is proposed to permeate all of space at a low but effective density and to cause the accelerating expansion of the universe.

As the universe expands, we could expect that eventually we would see no stars because they would all be too far away.

Science just doesn't know the explanation of why the universe would expand and expand at an accelerating rate. Science can hypothesize. Science can speculate. Science doesn't know all things. Science isn't God.
Religious people have been saying that about anything and everything scientist haven't completely figured out yet for a long, long, time. But everytime enough information is gathered to make a conclusion, the answer has never been a god, or any other supernatural answer.
 
Sep 14, 2014
966
2
0
Religious people have been saying that about anything and everything scientist haven't completely figured out yet for a long, long, time. But everytime enough information is gathered to make a conclusion, the answer has never been a god, or any other supernatural answer.
The answer to any scientific investigation has never been supernatural. Either we don't know or we get an explanation backed up with evidence. If new information comes to light then that explanation may change because it has to be in accordance with the evidence.


Know this...

There have been many things attributed to the supernatural that we now have a rational explanation for.

There has never been any instance when we had a rational explanation for something but it turned out to be supernatural.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
933
22
18
No, not the whole Bible, just Isaiah 53:6, states this, otherwise you can't trust anything that anyone in scripture writes: for each biblical writer has gone astray; each turning to his own way. Is this what you mean to imply? Arguing that everyone has gone astray except for the biblical writers makes for a very biased understanding of scripture.

Wow! Didn't realize you were saying that, did you. :)
God used over forty imperfect people to write the Bible. One of them, Solomon, wrote most or all of Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, yet his apostasy makes it doubtful if he will be in heaven.

Yes, all we like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own ways rather than following God's ways. But, the LORD God laid the recompense for iniquities upon Jesus Christ the Redeemer that there might be righteous pardons for those who will believe.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
933
22
18
The answer to any scientific investigation has never been supernatural. Either we don't know or we get an explanation backed up with evidence. If new information comes to light then that explanation may change because it has to be in accordance with the evidence.


Know this...

There have been many things attributed to the supernatural that we now have a rational explanation for.

There has never been any instance when we had a rational explanation for something but it turned out to be supernatural.
We don't need to go far to find supernatural things that science can't explain.

Mind, will and emotion are marvels of the soul that science can't explain. Faith, hope, love, fear, courage, persistence are metaphysical intangibles whose explanations go beyond chemistry and electrical impulses across synapses in the human nervous system.

Christian testimony from the first century tells of Jesus Christ supernaturally healing a lame man at the pool of Bethesda who had been in that condition for thirty-eight years. On the sabbath day, Jesus told him to pick up his bed and walk and he did. (John 5)

The Resurrection of Jesus Christ was supernatural but first century witnesses have passed along that it happened.

Jesus prophesied solemnly that all of us will rise from the dead.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all who are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth... - John 5:28-29
 
Sep 14, 2014
966
2
0
We don't need to go far to find supernatural things that science can't explain.

Mind, will and emotion are marvels of the soul that science can't explain. Faith, hope, love, fear, courage, persistence are metaphysical intangibles whose explanations go beyond chemistry and electrical impulses across synapses in the human nervous system.

Christian testimony from the first century tells of Jesus Christ supernaturally healing a lame man at the pool of Bethesda who had been in that condition for thirty-eight years. On the sabbath day, Jesus told him to pick up his bed and walk and he did. (John 5)

The Resurrection of Jesus Christ was supernatural but first century witnesses have passed along that it happened.

Jesus prophesied solemnly that all of us will rise from the dead.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all who are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth... - John 5:28-29
The bible is not evidence of a claim.

The bible IS the claim.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
We don't need to go far to find supernatural things that science can't explain.

Mind, will and emotion are marvels of the soul that science can't explain. Faith, hope, love, fear, courage, persistence are metaphysical intangibles whose explanations go beyond chemistry and electrical impulses across synapses in the human nervous system.

Christian testimony from the first century tells of Jesus Christ supernaturally healing a lame man at the pool of Bethesda who had been in that condition for thirty-eight years. On the sabbath day, Jesus told him to pick up his bed and walk and he did. (John 5)

The Resurrection of Jesus Christ was supernatural but first century witnesses have passed along that it happened.

Jesus prophesied solemnly that all of us will rise from the dead.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all who are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth... - John 5:28-29
yes, nothing in science to account for 'will'... many people want to believe we have it, including myself... that's why i wouldn't look to science alone... everything in science, learning about the brain, points to no will, not like we think of...
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
933
22
18
The bible is not evidence of a claim.

The bible IS the claim.
Job, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel), Ishamael, Moses, David, Solomon, Elijah, Jesus, Peter, Paul, the Jewish nation, the catacombs and Colliseum in Rome, many ancient manuscripts, art, history, archaeology, churches, tombs, books about the lives of saints and martyrs are all part of the testimony to the people, places, events and message of the Bible. Jews continue to gather and perpetuate their faith and culture as they have for millenia. Saints of the Christian churches continue to gather for fellowship and worship and witness as they have for centuries.

Passovers, baptisms, Lord Supper observances continue as they have without interruption for centuries.

There is testimony to the supernatural resurrection of Jesus Christ in the past. There is testimony to the ongoing work of the grace and Spirit of God in the present tense.

There is prophecy concerning a supernatural general resurrection of all of us in the future.

God bless you.
 
P

phil112

Guest
do you know Good by some process other than faith?
I have faith because I know God. Not sure exactly who good is. No, wait, maybe you're right and that wasn't a typo....."And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."

And yes, I do know. God has answered several very specific, very pointed prayers for me. I asked for a fleece and God gave it to me. Look it up. A fleece leaves no room for doubt. God has done a few miracles for me also. As the apostle Paul put it, I am "fully persuaded".
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
I have faith because I know God. Not sure exactly who good is. No, wait, maybe you're right and that wasn't a typo....."And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."

And yes, I do know. God has answered several very specific, very pointed prayers for me. I asked for a fleece and God gave it to me. Look it up. A fleece leaves no room for doubt. God has done a few miracles for me also. As the apostle Paul put it, I am "fully persuaded".
yes, "Good" was a typo for "God"... can you give more details about your fleece experience? can everyone expect one?
also, heb 11:6 "he who comes to God must believe that he exists"... if a person knows that God exists, I'm interested in how this verse works in that case, then...
 
P

phil112

Guest
yes, "Good" was a typo for "God"... can you give more details about your fleece experience? can everyone expect one?
also, heb 11:6 "he who comes to God must believe that he exists"... if a person knows that God exists, I'm interested in how this verse works in that case, then...
Judges 6:36-40King James Version "And Gideon said unto God, If thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said,
[SUP][/SUP] Behold, I will put a fleece of wool in the floor; and if the dew be on the fleece only, and it be dry upon all the earth beside, then shall I know that thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said.
And it was so: for he rose up early on the morrow, and thrust the fleece together, and wringed the dew out of the fleece, a bowl full of water.
And Gideon said unto God, Let not thine anger be hot against me, and I will speak but this once: let me prove, I pray thee, but this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew.
And God did so that night: for it was dry upon the fleece only, and there was dew on all the ground."

A fleece is a request that leaves no doubt in ones mind. The manner described, as it happened with Gideon, leaves absolutely no doubt as to who answered his prayer.
I was very poor (more so than usual) several years ago and I wanted to make a trip to California that was going to cost me $1500. I prayed about it a lot. When the time got close I asked the Lord for a fleece, a sign that He was okay with what I wanted. Part of that request (and I am not going to detail the whole thing, but trust me, it was impossible without outside intervention), was to obviously get the money. I own an auto repair shop. Business was very slow. When the economy tanks, one of the first areas to feel it, is the auto industry. I had a customer come in during this slow time, with a late model car that needed several hundred dollars worth of repairs. The customer didn't want to fix it and I bought it from him for a song and a dance. Had to be cheap as I could barely pay bills at the time. I tore the engine down and repairs were made for much less than expected. Had a friend that owns a machine shop, and he did the necessary work at an unusually low cost to me. Didn't matter - I had no buyer or expectation of finding one. This car came into my possession after the request for a fleece. I didn't have enough money to put an ad in the paper. A few days after I fixed this car, I got a phone call from a guy that was looking for a car. That was before I was using computers. Told him what I had and he said he would talk to his wife. He came down that weekend with cash in hand. He was the only person I talked to that wanted that thing.

That particular transaction was witnessed by my brother, who worked with me. He, along with other friends in my business, was quite surprised at exactly the sequence of events. You would had to have been here and seen it personally, but believe me there was no doubt in my mind. God gave me exactly what I asked for. Nothing more, nothing less. I made that trip and it could not have gone any smoother.

I asked God for something, and He gave it to me. Then I asked to please don't be angry with me, but would you do this also so I will have no doubt about having your permission. It happened just like that.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
right, so, can everyone expect a fleece experience? Can we just use the same one as Gideon, put an actual fleece outside and look for Gideon's results?