THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE, to go to The Wedding of the Lamb

[PlainWord]

The Rapture is a theory based on false assumptions. The facts are Christ NEVER taught it. There is no passage that places Christ's return BEFORE the Tribulation. There is no passage that states any living person is taken to heaven. There is no passage that teaches the Lord returning twice. There is no passages that make a distinction between a "saint" and a "Tribulation Saint." This is no lesson of being "left behind." The whole theory is based primarily on us "not being appointed to wrath" passage and John 14:2-3.

If you understand that the wrath of 2 Thes 2 deals with final judgment wrath and you understand that the wrath is targeted against the Beast and His Kingdom and that we are warned specifically to leave that geographical area - we will be safe and if you understand John 14:2-3 correctly, you could never conclude that the Lord comes twice, once before and once after, the Tribulation.

The famous 1 Thes 4:13-17 passage provide NO TIMING. So what puts the timing ahead of the Tribulation when Jesus locates it after? Let's start with John 14:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]In My Father’s house are many mansions;if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Just about everyone interprets this wrong. Most take this to mean Jesus is returning to heaven whereby He is preparing these mansions for the saved and will return to take them to heaven alive and transformed (this part comes from 1 Thes 4 and 1 Cor 15). However, Jesus isn't say that at all.

The mansions (or rooms) are already built. This is clear because Jesus states them in the present tense. The mansions are already there. Therefore Jesus isn't going to heaven to build these "mansions." So where is He going? TO THE CROSS!! Our way to heaven (and specifically the disciples He was talking to) is through the cross. There is no going to heaven until the Cross. Thus Jesus is preparing our way to heaven, our place, by dying on the Cross. When He comes again, he will be here - not there. So we are gathered to him here.

 

[VCO]

My back ground is essentially the same. My dad was an Independent Fundamentalist preacher for the first 18 years of my life. He started a church and belonged to the IFCA. He was all in for the Rapture theory. Fortunately for me, my older brother told me when I was about 15 that he studied the Bible and could not find proof of the Rapture as presented. I didn't think much of it until later in life.

I was probably 30-35 when I really got into studying for my own. I read everything. I started having my rapture doubts and starting thinking maybe by brother was right. I took the matter to the Lord in prayer. I asked Him to show me the truth. BAM. It was like getting hit with a 2X4. The truth is exactly what is clearly stated. All of it. Christ comes AFTER the Tribulation just as He says. He only comes once. When He comes, He comes to stay.

I'm sorry you don't see the truth yet my dear friend. Maybe it will matter, maybe it won't. But I've been on a mission for awhile now trying to convince Christians that the "Rapture" is not before the Tribulation. The church will be absolutely decimated during the Great Trib just as Jesus teaches. There will be a HUGE falling away and many are deceived.

The IFCA is a very Biblically sound organization. I did a lot of moving over the Years but three of those Churches belonged to the IFCA. Your Dad told you the TRUTH, and your brother unwittingly deceived you with an untruth. I am sorry for you.

Proverbs 22:6 (ESV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.

Do not blame your DAD, you chose to rebel against His teachings.

You are part of the falling away.

Thank you for being honest with me, in your answer to my question.

 

[VCO]

So, when are we on CC going to get around to FATHOMABLING, then? Can't get anybody to plausibly FATHOMABLE a little Gog. Is that asking too much? You can only do so much with baptism and shower caps, which was at least a switch-up from whether faith without works threads is dead.

MANY OF US ALREADY FIND THESE PROPHECIES VERY FATHOMABLE.

Why are you having problems understanding Gog and Magog? They are also mentioned in Qur'an, not that their information should be be taken as anything more that a possible source of historical truth. They claim they were descendants of Adam, who settled up North and East of Turkey; where they started their own Nations, by the same names.

Gog was also known as the Nation of Rosh, which most likely added to the Confusion about where GOG was, because most maps call it ROSH. GOG was the area around Moscow, East of there, and what is now Eastern Ukraine, which are located North and Northeast of the Black Sea.

While Magog was the area in Northwest, immediately North, and East of the Caspian around much of the area that is now Kazakhstan. I found several maps placing it in that location, while I only found one map that placed it in the Eastern Europe ex-Soviet Block Nations. In this case I would have to believe the majority are RIGHT.

 

[JesusIsAll]

MANY OF US ALREADY FIND THESE PROPHECIES VERY FATHOMABLE.

Why are you having problems understanding Gog and Magog? They are also mentioned in Qur'an, not that their information should be be taken as anything more that a possible source of historical truth. They claim they were descendants of Adam, who settled up North and East of Turkey; where they started their own Nations, by the same names.

Gog was also known as the Nation of Rosh, which most likely added to the Confusion about where GOG was, because most maps call it ROSH. GOG was the area around Moscow, East of there, and what is now Eastern Ukraine, which are located North and Northeast of the Black Sea.

While Magog was the area in Northwest, immediately North, and East of the Caspian around much of the area that is now Kazakhstan. I found several maps placing it in that location, while I only found one map that placed it in the Eastern Europe ex-Soviet Block Nations. In this case I would have to believe the majority are RIGHT.

Oh, brother! How much do I have to carp about things like the primitive weapons and Israel dwelling safely, things that make mush of the tribulation scenarios? Now what do I get? A geography lesson? Alright, that's fathomabling on some level, maybe I shouldn't complain, but not the fathomabilization I'm seeking.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Okay. Are you a man or a mouse? Answer my "This Is Not Your Daddy's Gog and Magog" thread, somebody please tell me how this war can happen this side of the millennium. (As I have always suspected, evidence mounts there is one Gog and Magog, when you get down to all the verses in Ezekiel 38-39, and some national ministries and booksellers perhaps need to start issuing refunds... LOL!)

 

[VCO]

Oh, brother! How much do I have to carp about things like the primitive weapons and Israel dwelling safely, things that make mush of the tribulation scenarios? Now what do I get? A geography lesson? Alright, that's fathomabling on some level, maybe I shouldn't complain, but not the fathomabilization I'm seeking.

Have you ever tried asking HIM for understanding? I did very shortly after I was saved, and HE answered that prayer eagerly, way beyond my expectations. That is why MacArthur's 36 hours of sermons on Revelation and a nearly equal number of hours in the book of Daniel, where my SPIRITUAL MILK. You just have to be willing to LISTEN.

Ezekiel 3:27 (GW)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] But when I speak to you, I will open your mouth. You will tell them, ‘This is what the Almighty LORD says.' Some will listen, and some will refuse to listen. They are rebellious people.”

Ecclesiastes 5:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Guard your steps when you go to the house of God. To draw near to listen . . .

As for your big CARP, I shot him when I was in high school, when I was an avid Bow Fisherman. That Carp was 25 pounds.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Have you ever tried asking HIM for understanding? I did very shortly after I was saved, and HE answered that prayer eagerly, way beyond my expectations. That is why MacArthur's 36 hours of sermons on Revelation and a nearly equal number of hours in the book of Daniel, where my SPIRITUAL MILK. You just have to be willing to LISTEN.

Ezekiel 3:27 (GW)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] But when I speak to you, I will open your mouth. You will tell them, ‘This is what the Almighty LORD says.' Some will listen, and some will refuse to listen. They are rebellious people.”

Ecclesiastes 5:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Guard your steps when you go to the house of God. To draw near to listen . . .

As for your big CARP, I shot him when I was in high school, when I was an avid Bow Fisherman. That Carp was 25 pounds.

Do nothing but seek understanding from Him, and this is an example of where I don't see what everybody else is seeing, and can say why. Yet I'm not entirely comfortable with all the details, as, at some point, one has to go out on a limb that can't be proved, though I've been lately thinking that neither can be disproved, as opposed to prevailing theories with very serious holes. But I have never put Ezekiel 38-39 to rest, took this up again after some stuff I saw from one of these "prophecy gurus" selling books that ignores verses that make his theory something you could strain spaghetti through, and I'm becoming less respectful of talking heads who, bottom line, obviously couldn't explain the contradictions. They are forcing political situations in the news into prophecy, ignoring what is really there. I am definitely resolved anymore to see the end of millennium theory I've always seen more sense in shot down, pursuing this angle for the first time, and I'm not sure it can be. This is becoming revealing, of the entire eschatology scene anymore, rife with money grubber booksellers, who cherry pick verses and created whole doctrines, and people all over the world are parroting it, with no voice of educated critics putting the tough questions to them. It's like, I'm on TV, therefore I know, or he's on TV, therefore he knows.

 

[JesusIsAll]

By the way, glad I'm only cyber-carping, with you around!

 

[VCO]

Okay. Are you a man or a mouse? Answer my "This Is Not Your Daddy's Gog and Magog" thread, somebody please tell me how this war can happen this side of the millennium. (As I have always suspected, evidence mounts there is one Gog and Magog, when you get down to all the verses in Ezekiel 38-39, and some national ministries and booksellers perhaps need to start issuing refunds... LOL!)

You really are in rebellion against being taught aren't you. Ezekiel was given a vision of the invading armies of the future, and Ezekiel saw where they were coming from, and Ezekiel knew those countries as GOG and MAGOG. It really is easy to understand. YOU are trying too hard to make it difficult to understand. Your stumbling block is of your own making, and it is called literalism.

Like I said:

Psalm 91:2-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I will say to the LORD, “My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.”
[SUP]3 [/SUP] He Himself will deliver you from the hunter’s net, from the destructive plague.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He will cover you with His feathers; you will take refuge under His wings. His faithfulness will be a protective shield.

GOD really does not have feathers and wings, that is simply figurative language. GOD REALLY IS NOT SOME KIND OF SUPER CHICKEN. I do not know how you cannot understand that not everything in the Bible is literal language; HE CHOSE TO USE A LOT OF FIGURATIVE LANGUAGE, too.

Have you ever just turned off the PC and TV, Asked HIM for understanding, and then just sat there in the dark, listening for the quiet, small voice of the Holy Spirit speaking to your HEART. I do it frequently, as I am trying to fall asleep. YES HE IS FAITHFUL TO GIVE ME UNDERSTANDING, because I asked. I think your major problem is your are trying to understand with the mind that lies between your ears, when it is with your born again human spiritual mind of your heart that you understand spiritual TRUTHS taught by the Holy Spirit. You cannot have any distractions, you need to be quiet and listen TO HIM.

 

[JesusIsAll]

You really are in rebellion against being taught aren't you.

Not at all. You are out on a limb. Fundamental is that God doesn't contradict His own word. You want to teach? Refute the contradictions in God's word of your timing, and, I don't care, the whole world's timing, then, of Gog and Magog. But perhaps first realize, all you idols disagree with each other or can say nothing for certain, about any of it, yet will deign to teach as if doctrine. Does this say anything to you? Is it possible you have things to learn?

 

[JesusIsAll]

You really are in rebellion against being taught aren't you. Ezekiel was given a vision of the invading armies of the future, and Ezekiel saw where they were coming from, and Ezekiel knew those countries as GOG and MAGOG. It really is easy to understand. YOU are trying too hard to make it difficult to understand. Your stumbling block is of your own making, and it is called literalism.

Like I said:

Psalm 91:2-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I will say to the LORD, “My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.”
[SUP]3 [/SUP] He Himself will deliver you from the hunter’s net, from the destructive plague.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He will cover you with His feathers; you will take refuge under His wings. His faithfulness will be a protective shield.

GOD really does not have feathers and wings, that is simply figurative language. GOD REALLY IS NOT SOME KIND OF SUPER CHICKEN. I do not know how you cannot understand that not everything in the Bible is literal language; HE CHOSE TO USE A LOT OF FIGURATIVE LANGUAGE, too.

Have you ever just turned off the PC and TV, Asked HIM for understanding, and then just sat there in the dark, listening for the quiet, small voice of the Holy Spirit speaking to your HEART. I do it frequently, as I am trying to fall asleep. YES HE IS FAITHFUL TO GIVE ME UNDERSTANDING, because I asked. I think your major problem is your are trying to understand with the mind that lies between your ears, when it is with your born again human spiritual mind of your heart that you understand spiritual TRUTHS taught by the Holy Spirit. You cannot have any distractions, you need to be quiet and listen TO HIM.

In actuality, you address none of my specific concerns, rather philosophize against me in a critical way, criticize me, while you, apparently, have no answers? I know it's impossible to fathom, but what if I were to know more than you, and you have things to learn?

 

[royalscot]

ask, seek and knock. asks you, to go on the voyage of discovery .

you need a something to prove, what is wrote, or what can be seen through history. to all. eras.
you need a boat to sail round the world.

you need a pen to draw.

the lord did do it. hence his plan. (he already knew , what the world looks like. ) mankind never,and at different time in history, or eras. led to pen, paper, ink , car, plane. etc

because in this era(today) you can see them.

by mans actions , they, found a bigger world, looking at the stars they found planets.

boat chats of stars let to someone drawing the first map of the world. or plotting land leading. to the map, or both.

even out side the bible , history would show, the world was not square, but round. till someone else proved it.

the earth is his foot stool. looking from space to earth. (hence space ship to see down to earth).

have fun in your own personal voyage of discovery to what the lord is teaching , and showing you.

 

[PlainWord]

The IFCA is a very Biblically sound organization. I did a lot of moving over the Years but three of those Churches belonged to the IFCA. Your Dad told you the TRUTH, and your brother unwittingly deceived you with an untruth. I am sorry for you.

Proverbs 22:6 (ESV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.

Do not blame your DAD, you chose to rebel against His teachings.

You are part of the falling away.

Thank you for being honest with me, in your answer to my question.

The IFCA is fine except for their false Rapture doctrine which they like Calvary Chapel preach as sound doctrine when there is nothing sound about it.

You believe and teach the below:

1) Christ returns before the Tribulation
2) That the Tribulation is God's Judgment on wicked earth
3) That Christians are transformed and whisked off to heaven
4) That new believers will come to Christ when the see the above and they are the ones killed
5) That the Lord actually returns twice

None of the above is found in the Bible. It is pure conjecture. It is invented by man. In other words, it is a tradition of man and not of scripture.

This is what is really taught.

1) The Tribulation is the severe persecution and killing of God's People (Christians and Jews)
2) Christ returns once AFTER the Tribulation
3) The wrath of God is in response to the tribulation the wicked has been subjecting us to.
4) The Wrath of God is aimed specifically at the Beast (Islam) and its kingdom.
5) Most of the Christian world will either lose faith and be deceived or be killed
6) There is no taking of any living person to heaven.

Once you accept a LIE - the Rapture taking of living to heaven Before the Tribulation - then you twist everything else to fit that lie. That's what you have done dear brother as has the rest of the fundamentalists. I say this will love dear brother.

 

[watcher2013]

Believe what you want, I am not hear to make you beliece, when We are called out to meet the Bridegroom in the air, to go to the Wedding of the Lamb, everyone will know, who told them the TRUTH. Most of Mainline Christianity teaches pretty much the same thing. GOD HATES DENOMINATIONAL BIGOTRY, and so do I.

Which modern day Bible Teachers have had the Most influence on me, forming the firm foundation of my Doctrinal Beliefs:



Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. - Grace to You sermons dating back to the early 70s - free to listen to.
Dr. Adrian Rogers - Listen to Adrian Rogers - Love Worth Finding Radio Online
Dr. Charles Stanley - In Touch Ministries > Home
Dr. Richard Lee - First Redeemer Church | Duluth | Cumming | Alpharetta
Dr. Zola Levitt - ZLM Video: “Passover/Unleavened Bread” - some free - videos
Dr. Ed Young - http://www.winningwalk.org/t-bio.aspx
Dr. Gil Rugh - http://www.ihcc.org/ - free sermons dating back to the late 70s - free
Dr. Chuck Swindoll - Listen to Chuck Swindoll - Insight for Living Radio Online
Dr. Walter Martin - https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/martin_walter/
Dr. Ben Haden - Why

As well as the Pastors of Churches that I attended; Pastor Neil Berry and Pastor Gordan Broadbent especially.

Pretty much sure these Dr's teaches pre tribulation rapture...
there Dr's too that teaches the other views.

 

[watcher2013]

WOW, someone who actually believes only an ordained pastor can baptize, I assume.

The vast majority of Churches believe any Believer can baptize another believer.

Do not get me wrong...indeed a believer can baptise another...
The thing is your story have taken all the believers to heaven...so no believer can baptise them.

Did Jesus Christ baptise himself

Did Paul Baptise himself

Did Cornellius Baptise himself...

At some point in time baptism had been pass to generation to generations...But your story stop that baptism.

Who will baptise the first to hear your tapes????

Let me show you one more time that the Bride is made up of O.T. Saints, Church-age Saints, and Tribulation Saints.

As far as I am concerned, the BIBLE is extremely clear on that.

What's clear is there are no direct verses that shows that the Bride is the Church..on the other hand there is a Direct verse that particularly shows that the Bride is the New Jerusalem
Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

and instead of using the bible program to search for the "bride" and post it....you should read the context where you have taken the word:

Isaiah 61:10 (GW)

[SUP]10 [/SUP] I will find joy in the LORD. I will delight in my God. He has dressed me in the clothes of salvation. He has wrapped me in the robe of righteousness like a bridegroom with a priest's turban, like a bride with her jewels.

The first two verses was a prophecy fulfilled when the Lord came...When he was called to read...
The "I" here was talking about the Lord
Isa 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

Isaiah 49:18 (NIV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP] Lift up your eyes and look around; all your sons gather and come to you. As surely as I live," declares the LORD, "you will wear them all as ornaments; you will put them on, like a bride.

You forgot to include the next verse on as who is to wear them...
Isa 49:19 For thy waste and thy desolate places, and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the inhabitants, and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away.
The verse talk about the Land...

Jeremiah 2:2 (NIV)

[SUP]2 [/SUP] "Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem: "'I remember the devotion of your youth, how as a bride you loved me and followed me through the desert, through a land not sown.

This is referring to the Love of the whole house of Israel...

Isaiah 62:5 (ASV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP] For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee; and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

I advise you to read the whole chapter of 62 for it deals with the New Jerusalem:
Isa 62:6 "Upon your walls, Jerusalem, I have posted watchmen; all day and all night they won't remain silent. You who make mention of the LORD, take no rest,

Ezekiel 16:8-10 (NKJV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP] When I passed by you again and looked upon you, indeed your time was the time of love; so I spread My wing over you and covered your nakedness. Yes, I swore an oath to you and entered into a covenant with you, and you became Mine," says the Lord GOD.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Then I washed you in water; yes, I thoroughly washed off your blood, and I anointed you with oil.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] I clothed you in embroidered cloth and gave you sandals of badger skin; I clothed you with fine linen and covered you with silk.

This was also talking about Jerusalem and its inhabitants:

look here is her sister:

Eze 16:46 Your elder sister was Samaria. She and her daughters lived in the north, while your younger sister who lived in the south with her daughters was Sodom.

Matthew 25:1 (KJV)

[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

are the ten virgins the Bride????? WOW

Matthew 25:6 (KJV)

[SUP]6[/SUP] And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

{THE BRIDE IS ALWAYS CALLED OUT OF HER OLD DWELLING PLACE. THE BRIDEGROOM ALWAYS PICKS SOMEONE ELSE TO SHOUT AND CALL THE BRIDE OUT OF HER OLD DWELLING PLACE, AND OUR BRIDEGROOM HAS PICKED THE ARCHANGEL TO SHOUT AND CALL US OUT. NEVER DOES THE BRIDEGROOM SET FOOT IN THE BRIDE'S OLD DWELLING PLACE PRIOR THE WEDDING. THE BRIDEGROOM LEAVES THE OLD DWELLING PLACE OF THE BRIDE AFTER SHE ACCEPTS HIS PROPOSAL BY DRINKING WINE FROM A CUP THAT HE PASSES TO HER; AND HE THEN ANNOUNCES, "I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE." HE WILL NOT SET FOOT IN THE BRIDE'S OLD DWELLING PLACE, UNTIL AFTER A WEEK LONG WEDDING CEREMONY IN THE NEW DWELLING PLACE IN HIS FATHER'S HOUSE. THE WEDDING SUPPER IS ALWAYS HELD IN THE BRIDE'S OLD DWELLING PLACE THE LAST EVENING OF THE LAST DAY OF THE WEDDING. THOSE ARE THE JEWISH WEDDING TRADITIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PRACTICED FOR AT LEAST 3000 YEARS.}

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore comfort one another with these words.

You can fictional story...but again your story is not biblical.

Ephesians 5:23 (HCSB)

[SUP]23 [/SUP] for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of the body.

What...He is the saviour of the BODY....The whole chapter deals with Christ Love to the Body the Church...

Revelation 7:9-10 (ASV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP] After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, {THE BRIDE OF CHRIST} which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and they cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation unto our God who sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Revelation 7:13-14 (ASV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And one of the elders {ELDERS OF THE CHURCH.} answered, saying unto me, These {A GROUP OTHER THAN THE CHRUCH.} that are arrayed in white robes, who are they, and whence came they?
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And I say unto him, My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they that come of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. {SO THEY ARE PART OF THE BRIDE OF CHRIST, TOO.}

Revelation 19:7-8 (NIV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear." (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints.)

ALL THREE GROUPS OF SAINTS ARE GIVEN THE FINE LINEN WHITE ROBES OF A BRIDE.

Genesis 34:12 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Make the price for the bride and the gift I am to bring as great as you like, and I'll pay whatever you ask me. Only give me the girl as my wife."

1 Corinthians 6:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Insertion won't make your story true.

A Bride is ALWAYS bought with a price, where does it say the CITY was bought with a price.

I hope your wife if you have any...does not read this.

CONCLUSION:

Revelation 21:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. {MORE OF REVELATION'S FIGURATIVE LANGUAGE DESCRIBING THE WAY A NEW DWELLING PLACE FOR THE BRIDE IS ADORNED IN THE SAME WHITE LINEN THAT THE BRIDE WEARS.}

With all the verses you provided it deals with Jerusalem...
and soon the New Jerusalem will come down from Heaven from God...
and ALL the righteous and saved shall walk in it.
Rev 21:27 Nothing unclean, or anyone who does anything detestable, and no one who tells lies will ever enter it. Only those whose names are written in the lamb's Book of Life will enter it.

 

[VCO]

Oh, brother! How much do I have to carp about things like the primitive weapons and Israel dwelling safely, things that make mush of the tribulation scenarios? Now what do I get? A geography lesson? Alright, that's fathomabling on some level, maybe I shouldn't complain, but not the fathomabilization I'm seeking.

You do know that the prophecies about Israel dwelling Safely, are talking about AFTER Jesus take His rightful place as KING of Israel reigning from David's Throne don't you?

You do know that a LOT of Prophecy is not written in Chronological Order like we Americans would write it. The Writing Style that was Popular back then, {I forget the name of it), was the same style that a good Newspaper Reporter of today uses. You tell them only the most significant highlights of the story first, to capture the attention of your readers, so that they will want to read more. THEN, you go back and fill in the next most important or interesting details, and THEN, you go back and fill in the next most important or interesting details, and continue doing that until all the details have been told. If you ASSUME the story is ONLY in Chronological Order, you will get confused about a lot of the details.

 

[VCO]

Pretty much sure these Dr's teaches pre tribulation rapture...
there Dr's too that teaches the other views.

I am absolutely POSITIVE that all of those teachers believe and teach a Pre-Tribulation Rapture,

AND I AM ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE THAT THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE TO GO WEDDING OF THE LAMB, WILL HAPPEN PRIOR TO THE ANTICHRIST SIGNING A SEVEN YEAR PEACE TREATY WITH ISRAEL. THAT IS NOT AN OPINION BUT WHAT BIBLE SAYS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IN ME VALIDATES.

John 14:16-18 (ISV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] I will ask the Father to give you another Helper, to be with you always.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]He is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, for it neither sees him nor recognizes him. But you recognize him, for he abides with you and will be in you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I am not going to forsake you like orphans. I will come back to you.

THUS THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST ARE ONE GOD, JUST THE THE FATHER AND THE SON ONE GOD. AND GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL BE WITH US ALWAYS.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. {Obviously he is talking about the Antichrist.}
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Revelation 19:21 (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

With this prophecy about the HOLY SPIRIT saying He is taken out of the way, and then the lawless one {the Antichrist} will be revealed, it is CLEAR that the Holy SPIRIT in us is the ONE WHO is restraining Satan from possessing a World Dictator who can rule the whole world. When the Holy Spirit is recalled to Heaven so that the World Dictator, who is the Antichrist can finally come to full power, WE HAVE TO GO WITH HIM, BECAUSE CHRIST PROMISED HE WOULD BE WITH US ALWAYS. THAT SAME CONTEXT SAYS THAT ANTICHRIST WILL CONTINUALLY BE RESTRAINED FROM COMING TO FULL POWER AS LONG AS THE HOLY SPIRIT IS PRESENT HERE ON EARTH. AND "then the lawless one will be revealed", making that event after the Rapture, just before the Antichrist signs the Seven Year Peace Treaty with Israel that he the Antichrist will personally break 3.5 years after it begins.

THAT IS WHY I KNOW THE BRIDE OF CHRIST WILL ABSOLUTELY BE CALLED OUT TO GO TO HEAVEN FOR THE WEDDING OF THE LAMB BEFORE THE TRIBULATION BEGINS.

 

[VCO]

Do not get me wrong...indeed a believer can baptise another...
The thing is your story have taken all the believers to heaven...so no believer can baptise them.

Did Jesus Christ baptise himself

Did Paul Baptise himself

Did Cornellius Baptise himself...

At some point in time baptism had been pass to generation to generations...But your story stop that baptism.

Who will baptise the first to hear your tapes????

The same person WHO baptized unto SALVATION every single true Believer on the Planet, the Holy Spirit.

You do know that it is SPIRITUAL BAPTISM (IMMERSION) INTO THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST THAT SAVES, don't you?

Christian Water Baptism is NOT part of our Salvation, because the Spiritual Baptism happened the very moment we genuinely BELIEVED, before we EVERY EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT CLIMBING INTO THE BAPTISTRY. Christian Water Baptism is part of our obedient WALK in Christ, preferably the first step.

 

[VCO]

The IFCA is fine except for their false Rapture doctrine which they like Calvary Chapel preach as sound doctrine when there is nothing sound about it.

You believe and teach the below:

1) Christ returns before the Tribulation
2) That the Tribulation is God's Judgment on wicked earth
3) That Christians are transformed and whisked off to heaven
4) That new believers will come to Christ when the see the above and they are the ones killed
5) That the Lord actually returns twice

None of the above is found in the Bible. It is pure conjecture. It is invented by man. In other words, it is a tradition of man and not of scripture.

This is what is really taught.

1) The Tribulation is the severe persecution and killing of God's People (Christians and Jews)
2) Christ returns once AFTER the Tribulation
3) The wrath of God is in response to the tribulation the wicked has been subjecting us to.
4) The Wrath of God is aimed specifically at the Beast (Islam) and its kingdom.
5) Most of the Christian world will either lose faith and be deceived or be killed
6) There is no taking of any living person to heaven.

Once you accept a LIE - the Rapture taking of living to heaven Before the Tribulation - then you twist everything else to fit that lie. That's what you have done dear brother as has the rest of the fundamentalists. I say this will love dear brother.

You do not really know what we teach and believe do you? Which tells me you really DID NOT LISTEN TO YOUR DAD.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A COMING OF JESUS CHRIST BEFORE THE TRIBULATION, that Second Coming happens at the END of the Tribulation. At the Rapture, HE ONLY APPEARS IN THE AIR, and like a FLASH OF LIGHTNING Streaks across the SKY, the Archangel Calls Out the BRIDE, AND IT IS OVER AND DONE WITH EXACTLY THAT FAST. That is not a COMING, because a COMING requires that HE SETS FOOT ON EARTH. The Second Coming is when HE COMES VERY SLOWLY, SO SLOW THAT ALL THE ARMIES OF THE WORLD HAVE TIME TO GATHER IN THE JEZREEL VALLEY north of Jerusalem about 127 km. THAT IS VERY SLOW, and the Bible says in Revelation 19 that they KNOW they are going to that Valley to MAKE WAR ON JESUS CHRIST. The Appearing in the air to Call Out HIS BRIDE is as fast as Lightning flashes across the Sky and HE never sets foot on the Earth at that time, OBVIOUSLY IT NOT THE SECOND COMING.

Your Dad taught you the TRUTH, and you did not listen.

Your Brother taught you a falsehood that he had fallen for, and not being wise, you listened to your brother, instead of your DAD.

 

[VCO]

In actuality, you address none of my specific concerns, rather philosophize against me in a critical way, criticize me, while you, apparently, have no answers? I know it's impossible to fathom, but what if I were to know more than you, and you have things to learn?

I am not the one with doubts and questions?


I know what I believe, and why I believe it.

I also have the convictions, the boldness to stand on those convictions, and the confidence of understanding, that only the Holy Spirit can give.