THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE, to go to The Wedding of the Lamb

[VCO]

Not saying what is true or not, as, if I knew, I wouldn't still be curious, duh!

 

[VCO]

Not saying what is true or not, as, if I knew, I wouldn't still be curious, duh! <-- i.e., me. So I'm not saying anybody is wrong in such a thing, when I'm in the wilderness. But I can't, personally, accept the modern weapons symbolism here, as the weapons are not strained descriptions, as one trying to describe some modern monstrosity without a name, rather just the stuff an ancient warrior hauled around, and burnable. I'm unable to accept symbolism, for the same reason I'd not allegorize the Bible away, do what I'd sorely criticize others doing, can't really ever say, myself, what I see stated in a very literal fashion in scripture must be made symbolic, to match other doctrinal prejudices. I thank you very much for your thoughts, though, yet fear I'll never be content with any answer to this, never believe I had a correct interpretation to offer anybody on this. I have difficulty having confidence in anything without a clear, precise fit, and can't throw out or massage the data. Not you, but many do this out there, with outlandish, fantasy exegesis, from hell, rampant anymore, people in our day making whatever they wish of the Bible, and it's error, a total waste, if it's not truth. How could I criticize this, if I did it myself? I will rethink this modern weapons thing more, have a list of translated symbols on my computer somewhere I recall being unimpressive, but encouraged you seem to have some comfort in it, could find merit, that is some certainty, perhaps I missed.

WOW, I just tried to edit this post and it went BYE, BYE. Bummer. Now if I can only remember ALL of what I typed.

I cannot fathom how you can possibly think it is a War where we literally go back to ancient weapons.

Figurative Language is all over Bible. To copy an example from Dr. Walter Martin:

When the Bible says GOD is a Consuming Fire, do you literally think He is a blast furnace?

When it says that GOD covers you with His Wings, do you think He is some kind of super big chicken?

Do you think the Beast with ten horns and seven heads is some kind of super dragon, or do you understand that it is figurative language for a 10 Nation Confederacy, in which three of the horns will be pulled out by their roots; which is figurative for three countries ceasing to exist by merging with another country, JUST LIKE East Germany was pulled out by it's roots?

Do you ever look at current events and see prophecy happening or about to happen, or just dismiss it because the authors were not able to describe it in modern terminology?

Stay with me, because I am leading you to absolute proof that it is figurative language describing modern day events.

Russia is once again an ENEMY, and Gog and Magog were the names countries that basically are the western half of Russia.

Russia now has a dam big enough to SHUT OF the water to the Jordan River so a huge Army can cross in a hurry.

China has built a road through the Himalayan Mountains.

China is the ONLY Army in the world THAT HAS 200,000,000 soldiers.

NOW LOOK AT WHAT YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE, if you do not believe these prophecies are figurative language:

Revelation 9:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them.

How many horses do you think China has?

I just did google search
and it says in 2006 there were only 7,402,450 horses in China.
So do you think they will buy them from other countries?
Guess again, because it says throughout the ENTIRE WORLD:
"There were 58,372,106 horses in the world in 2006 according to a study done
by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAOSTAT)."

CLEARLY IT IS TALKING ABOUT MECHANIZED ARMIES OR CALVARY.

I WOULD NOT ADVISE TELLING THESE MEN THAT THEY ARE NOT REAL HORSEMEN.

 

[watcher2013]

RIGHT, I missed NOTHING, the First Resurrection is two-fold. The Church-age Saints get their resurrected, glorified bodies, just prior to the Seven Year Tribulation Period;

IF ALL believers at this stage is in heaven...WHO will spread the Gospel?

Rom 10:14 How, then, can people call on someone they have not believed? And how can they believe in someone they have not heard about? And how can they hear without someone preaching? Rom 10:15 And how can people preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are those who bring the good news!"
IF there is no one to preach to them there wont be any tribulation saints...
and by the way... no one believed the two witnesses Also
Rev 11:10
Those living on earth will gloat over them, celebrate, and send gifts to each other, because these two prophets had tormented those living on earth.

and despite more than 1/3 of population are gone...they did not repent..

Rev 9:20 The rest of the people who survived these plagues did not repent from their evil actions or stop worshiping demons and idols made of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood, which cannot see, hear, or walk.

Biblically your story is false.

I have said several times, that the Bride of Christ is comprised of genuine Believers of the Old Testament Times, the Church-age, and the Tribulation martyred Saints. You apparently are not reading all of my posts, and only assuming you know what I meant by what I said.

I quoted the very verse you did to verify that geniune Old Testament Believers were part of the Bride. I quoted the fact that Christ is the head of the Church just like the husband is head of the wife, to prove that the Church is part of the bride. and I quoted that the Tribulation Saints also received the fine white linen robes of a bride, to prove that they too were part of the Bride. I pointed out that the New City Jerusalem is the the dwelling place of the Bride, NOT the Bride herself, because the BRIDE speaks and calls others to COME, to the Lord; and a CITY cannot SPEAK.

So what is your point, other than you are totally misunderstanding what my beliefs are?

I totally understand that we differ in view about the Bride:
The Bride cannot be the O.T saints...But the OT saints shall be in it.
The NT saints (Christ believers) is not the bride but shall be in it.

Rev 21:27 Nothing unclean, or anyone who does anything detestable, and no one who tells lies will ever enter it. Only those whose names are written in the lamb's Book of Life will enter it.

THERE IS ONE POINT I HAVE NOT MADE YET, that absolutely PROVES that the Bride has to be Called Out to go to Heaven prior the the Beginning of Antichrist's SEVEN YEAR COVENANT OF PEACE with Israel.

The Bride will come down from Heaven... (Heavenly city, the New Jerusalem)
The Body and Christ will be caught up to meet in the air....

Matthew 25:13 (HCSB)

[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Therefore be alert, because you don’t know either the day or the hour."

When Antichrist makes His SEVEN YEAR COVENANT OF PEACE with Israel, THAT WILL BE ALL OVER CNN AND OTHER TV NEWS CHANNELS. So I can then TELL YOU what Day is exactly 3.5 years from the signing of that TREATY, and what Day is the exact END of that SEVEN YEAR PEACE TREATY, ruling out mid-Trib and post-Trib theories. I absolutely believe GOD is one hundred percent accurate, when HE is giving a prophecy that involves a specific amount of TIME. YES, Antichrist breaks the Peace Treaty three and a half years into it and that too will be all over the NEWS, but THAT DOES NOT CHANGE HOW MANY DAYS GOD GIVES ANTICHRIST TO REIGN. IT WILL END at exactly Seven Years to the day.

THEREFORE, the Bride of Christ, has to be Called Out before the Signing of Antichrist's Peace Treaty with ISRAEL; for the prophecy about NOT KNOWING THE DAY OR HOUR TO BE TRUE.

How do I know that GOD is that ACCURATE when HE prophesies about TIME?

John 2:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] “What has this concern of yours to do with Me, woman?” Jesus asked.
“My hourhas not yet come.”

Daniel 9:25-26 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince will be seven weeks {49 years to rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple.} and 62 weeks {434 years.}. It will be rebuilt with a plaza and a moat, but in difficult times.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] After those 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off {killed on the Cross.} and will have nothing. The people of the coming prince will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come with a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations are decreed.

JESUS CHRIST, being GOD in the flesh, KNEW exactly what HOUR that decree was made.

are you posting your false view?

 

[royalscot]

dose an engine , need to be some kind of metal, for fire to burn in side it. and petrol .ie the workings of an engine
suck, squeeze, bang, blow. lol what year was the car invented, no one knows the time. because it not been invented yet.

blind eyes lol

 

[JesusIsAll]

WOW, I just tried to edit this post and it went BYE, BYE. Bummer. Now if I can only remember ALL of what I typed.

Yuk! Sorry about that, just hate it when that happens. I do substantial writing in a local text editor, then paste it, for this very reason. You won't lose anything, no matter how the website, network or fat fingers behave.

I cannot fathom how you can possibly think it is a War where we literally go back to ancient weapons.

I don't think this, rather it's a mystery to me, hence the problem. (If I believed this, I wouldn't be questioning anything.) Nothing adds up, and the objective view is that people are forcing theoretical meanings. We all know the symbols, like the beast of Revelation, the seven heads, mountains, etc. Saying there are symbols other places in the Bible isn't a license to create new ones, to force "understanding." Symbols are most often even elaborate on, to decode them.

I foraged around on my computer and found the list of weapons, the bows missile launchers, the arrows missiles, swords guns, horses jet fighters (!), etc. It only got worse to review this again, that is, looks like ancient weapons by literal interpretation,

Ezekiel 39:3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.

This is even the way bows and arrows are used. But smite the missile launcher from the left hand, missiles to fall out of right hands? Again, I'm drawing no conclusions, just looking at what's there in scripture, and the above passage is congruous with bows and arrows.

I carefully read the passage again. This weapons burning phenomenon keeps showing up like a bad penny. There are people saying it will be nuclear fuel, or fuel left in vehicles, but,

Ezekiel 39:10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

In one sentence here, it's mentioned they won't need wood from the field or forest (that's wood), but "they shall burn the weapons with fire." The weapons, themselves, are being burned, and are useful, for logistics of people who use wood for fuel. How can one but see this that they won't need that wood, because they'll have this wood?

As mentioned before, metal doesn't burn.

Now, I can buy horses being military vehicles, in the right context, but maybe let's put it this way. If the passage said there will be all these horses, and the army will have to pause during in the march to feed the horses oats and water, we have a different matter, a real context. In any case, it's not that I'm saying what is true, the case is there is no case, except to wantonly symbolize, then the Bible doesn't say what it says? So, it's not that I believe anything, rather can only hang a hat on what appears quite literal and wonder how that can be.

 

[JesusIsAll]

dose an engine , need to be some kind of metal, for fire to burn in side it. and petrol .ie the workings of an engine
suck, squeeze, bang, blow. lol what year was the car invented, no one knows the time. because it not been invented yet.

blind eyes lol

Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

 

[PlainWord]

I have to address this a little more, and maybe you are just NOT GOING TO UNDERSTAND ME. The Church-age Saints are Called Out to go to Heaven BEFORE Antichrist comes on the scene. Yes those saved in the Tribulation Period have to become become martyred saints, ONLY BECAUSE, there is NO Second Rapture, and they HAVE to reject the Mark of the Beast, causing them to be martyred. Everyone who accepts the Mark of the Beast will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. AND I believe every person saved during the Tribulation Period will be beheaded at the orders of the Antichrist, with the only exception being the 144,000 Jews sealed from harm during the Tribulation. Where on Earth did you ever get the idea that when someone is talking about Martyrdom that they are talking Salvation? ONLY the Blood of Christ cleanses us from sin.

There is no passage in the Bible that supports the view of any "rapture" before the Tribulation. The Tribulation IS THE PERSECUTION and KILLING OF UNTOLD MILLIONS of SAINTS. This is clear from multiple passages. If there was a pre-trib rapture, why would Christ say this?

Luke 18:

[SUP]
7 [/SUP]And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? [SUP]

8 [/SUP]I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

Can you not see that the wrath of God is in response to Satan's Great Tribulation of Saints?

If Christ came before the Christians were slaughtered, why would He ask if He would really find faith on the earth? He would be finding millions upon millions to take to heaven.

If Christ was referring to his return after a rapture and after the Tribulation, why would he be surprised to not find much faith left? After all, He just took everybody 7 years earlier.

The only way this passage makes sense is if the Tribulation is about evil killing good and Christ coming to stop it and rescue those left. In fact, this view is exactly what Christ says in Mat 24:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. [SUP]

22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

Christ comes to shorten those days of Tribulation against His elect and to execute judgment and wrath upon those who killed His children. Paul affirms:

[SUP]6 [/SUP]since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,

We see that there is tribulation of saints first, then God repays with tribulation WHEN the Lord is revealed from heaven, not for the rapture, but when He comes with His mighty angels.

ALL SIGNS TELL US:

1. Massive Slaughter of SAINTS during the Great Tribulation
2. Days cut short to save a remnant
3. Divine Vengeance against those who are harming the Saints
4. Lord's Return

The vengeance is targeted. It is aimed directly and solely at the BEAST'S KINGDOM and the HARLOT. God tells His people to come out of the area He will punish in Rev 18, so His people are clearly on earth and in harm's way but they will know to leave.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

The Woman sits in Mecca and the BEAST is the Northern Islamic Alliance.

 

[VCO]

IF ALL believers at this stage is in heaven...WHO will spread the Gospel?

Rom 10:14 How, then, can people call on someone they have not believed? And how can they believe in someone they have not heard about? And how can they hear without someone preaching? Rom 10:15 And how can people preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are those who bring the good news!"
IF there is no one to preach to them there wont be any tribulation saints...
and by the way... no one believed the two witnesses Also
Rev 11:10
Those living on earth will gloat over them, celebrate, and send gifts to each other, because these two prophets had tormented those living on earth.

and despite more than 1/3 of population are gone...they did not repent..

Rev 9:20 The rest of the people who survived these plagues did not repent from their evil actions or stop worshiping demons and idols made of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood, which cannot see, hear, or walk.

Biblically your story is false.

I totally understand that we differ in view about the Bride:
The Bride cannot be the O.T saints...But the OT saints shall be in it.
The NT saints (Christ believers) is not the bride but shall be in it.

Rev 21:27 Nothing unclean, or anyone who does anything detestable, and no one who tells lies will ever enter it. Only those whose names are written in the lamb's Book of Life will enter it.

The Bride will come down from Heaven... (Heavenly city, the New Jerusalem)
The Body and Christ will be caught up to meet in the air....

are you posting your false view?

I have told you the ABSOLUTE TRUTH all along, as the Holy Spirit gives me understanding.

Do you ever think through what I have been telling you, or just go back to the false thinking you have been taught, ignoring what I said?

TRUTH: Not everyone who THINKS they are CHRISTIANS are truly Born Again Christians who have received Him as LORD, which means MASTER, they remain lord of their own lives. ONLY BORN AGAIN Christians are called out to go to the Wedding of the Lamb.

TRUTH: NO Born Again Pastor will remain on this Earth by the time the Antichrist makes the Seven Year peace Treaty with Israel. HOWEVER, every one of their recorded sermons will remain on this Earth, and I suspect, many of those who thought they Christians because of some Easy Believism false Gospel, will be very EAGER to listen or watch those tapes and videos. Many of us BORN AGAIN Christians collect those sermons to be left behind for those who choose to receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Master, thereby becoming Tribulation Saints. I used to have OVER 500 of Dr. John MacArthur's sermons on cassette tapes, plus some of Chuck Swindoll's, Dr. Gil Rugh,s, Dr. Ed Young,s Dr. Adrian Rodger's, Dr. Zola Levitt's, etc. With the cassettes having gone the way of the 8 Tracks, I donated half of them to the Prison Ministry, and half to a brand new Church just getting started. NOW I collect sermons in MP4 format, for the same reason. Those RECORDED Sermons, PLUS the TWO WITNESSES getting LOTS of Media Coverage, there will be AMPLE gospel sermons to lead those who become Tribulation Saints to REPENT and RECEIVE JESUS AS LORD AND MASTER. By the way, THAT IS NOT WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS, as Easy Believism would have you believe in ERROR. In ROM. 5:5, it tells us that when the Holy Spirit came into us, HE poured the LOVE OF GOD into our hearts. It is that LOVE that is NOT OF OURSELVES, that produces a desire to submit to HIM as MASTER, striving to obey Him always. AND when we fail, it is that LOVE that produces a desire to confess that sin and repent of it.

TRUTH: GOD NEVER BREAKS HIS PROMISES.

Ezekiel 37:25-28 (ESV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Then the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.”

Psalm 34:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Ecclesiastes 5:1-2 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Walk prudently when you go to the house of God; and draw near to hear rather than to give the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they do evil.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Do not be rash with your mouth, And let not your heart utter anything hastily before God. For God is in heaven, and you on earth; Therefore let your words be few.
James 4:7-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Lament and mourn and weep! {Over your sinfulness.} Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

Those promises are every bit as TRUE in the Tribulation Period as they were in the Church-age. Granted Bible teachers, who did not get Called Out by the Bridegroom, will be out of business, but recorded sermons by those who did, will be in HIGH DEMAND.

Just so you know:

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Therefore comfort one another with these words.

That Event is at least 1007 Years or more, before the New City Jerusalem is lowered to the New Earth. It is why HE SAID to the Virgins who were watching and prepared to GO with the BRIDEGROOM:

Matthew 25:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

IT IS WHY HE SAID:

Mark 13:32-33 (ESV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] “But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come.

If it was AFTER Antichrist signs that Peace Treaty with Israel, which will be ALL OVER TV NEWS WORLDWIDE; no one would have to "Watch" or "Be on guard, keep awake" until they saw that Seven Year Peace Treaty being signed.

Please LISTEN, your theology is all mixed up.

 

[royalscot]

Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

rev is a vision or a dream. not read as wrote.
now ask your self, how dose fire burn inside metal.

rev wrote about 80-91 ad

3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

0 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet11 saying, "Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."






how can a loud voice sound like a trumpet.

write what you see.

is he writing what he hears or what he see.

are you looking for big signs or small.

 

[JesusIsAll]

rev is a vision or a dream. not read as wrote.
now ask your self, how dose fire burn inside metal.

rev wrote about 80-91 ad

3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

0 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet11 saying, "Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."






how can a loud voice sound like a trumpet.

write what you see.

is he writing what he hears or what he see.

are you looking for big signs or small.

I was discussing specifics of Ezekiel, not Revelation. Perhaps if you see what the topic is and what is actually said, first, then comment, and most especially before commenting on somebody else's vision?

 

[VCO]

There is no passage in the Bible that supports the view of any "rapture" before the Tribulation. The Tribulation IS THE PERSECUTION and KILLING OF UNTOLD MILLIONS of SAINTS. This is clear from multiple passages. If there was a pre-trib rapture, why would Christ say this?

Luke 18:

[SUP]
7 [/SUP]And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? [SUP]

8 [/SUP]I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

Can you not see that the wrath of God is in response to Satan's Great Tribulation of Saints?

If Christ came before the Christians were slaughtered, why would He ask if He would really find faith on the earth? He would be finding millions upon millions to take to heaven.

If Christ was referring to his return after a rapture and after the Tribulation, why would he be surprised to not find much faith left? After all, He just took everybody 7 years earlier.

The only way this passage makes sense is if the Tribulation is about evil killing good and Christ coming to stop it and rescue those left. In fact, this view is exactly what Christ says in Mat 24:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. [SUP]

22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

Christ comes to shorten those days of Tribulation against His elect and to execute judgment and wrath upon those who killed His children. Paul affirms:

[SUP]6 [/SUP]since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,

We see that there is tribulation of saints first, then God repays with tribulation WHEN the Lord is revealed from heaven, not for the rapture, but when He comes with His mighty angels.

ALL SIGNS TELL US:

1. Massive Slaughter of SAINTS during the Great Tribulation
2. Days cut short to save a remnant
3. Divine Vengeance against those who are harming the Saints
4. Lord's Return

The vengeance is targeted. It is aimed directly and solely at the BEAST'S KINGDOM and the HARLOT. God tells His people to come out of the area He will punish in Rev 18, so His people are clearly on earth and in harm's way but they will know to leave.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

The Woman sits in Mecca and the BEAST is the Northern Islamic Alliance.

You are very wrong about there being no verses that support a pre-Tribulation Rapture:

Just so you know:

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore comfort one another with these words.
That Event is at least 1007 Years or more, before the New City Jerusalem is lowered to the New Earth. It is why HE SAID to the Virgins who were watching and prepared to GO with the BRIDEGROOM:
Matthew 25:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

IT IS WHY HE SAID:

Mark 13:32-33 (ESV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]“But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come. If it was AFTER Antichrist signs that Peace Treaty with Israel, which will be ALL OVER TV NEWS WORLDWIDE; no one would have to "Watch" or "Be on guard, keep awake" until they saw that Seven Year Peace Treaty being signed.

Please LISTEN, your theology is all mixed up.
I am not here to Argue the Point, and it is your choice to believe YOU will go through the Tribulation Period, which will insure you do. Granted I could re-quote numerous verses that support, the Calling Out of the Bride before the Antichrist signs the Seven Year Peace Treaty with Israel; BUT it would just be copy paste from previous posts that you can really want to. So I see no point in debating someone who has made up his own mind already, determined to resist taking the Mark. Are you really ready for that kind of test? I think not.

I doubt if you have ever considered, when contemplating what refusing the Mark of the Beast will COST YOU PERSONALLY. Are you ready to watch them chop off the head of your two year old grand daughter AND NOT TAKE THE MARK TO SAVE HER LIFE? Are you ready to watch them chop off the head of your grandson AND NOT TAKE THE MARK TO SAVE HIS LIFE?

You are free to believe what ever you want. I and my house will believe what the HOLY SPIRIT has already taught us through these verses:

Revelation 3:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Because you have kept My command to endure, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is going to come over the whole world to test those who live on the earth.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I am coming quickly. Hold on to what you have, so that no one takes your crown.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.

No, I see no point in continuing to Debate this with you. I am here to teach and share with those who want to HEAR THE TRUTH and perhaps to learn some additional supports for the pre-Tribulation Calling Out of the Bride. GOD has NOT Called me to convert you to a Truth that you have already rejected. Excuse me, I am busy preparing as many as I can for the Wedding of the Lamb.

Have a good day.

 

[royalscot]

I was discussing specifics of Ezekiel, not Revelation. Perhaps if you see what the topic is and what is actually said, first, then comment, and most especially before commenting on somebody else's vision?

were they all vision and dreams and dan, eze, rev. yet they have certain ties.

if you cant see small. how can you see big.


I don't think this, rather it's a mystery to me, hence the problem. (If I believed this, I wouldn't be questioning anything.) Nothing adds up, and the objective view is that people are forcing theoretical meanings. We all know the symbols, like the beast of Revelation, the seven heads, mountains, etc. Saying there are symbols other places in the Bible isn't a license to create new ones, to force "understanding." Symbols are most often even elaborate on, to decode them.


no one knows the time. because it not been invented yet.

13 But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days."Daniel 12

The Interpretation of the Vision


18 And when he had spoken to me, I fell into a deep sleep with my face to the ground. But he touched me and made me stand up.19 He said, "Behold, I will make known to you what shall be at the latter end of the indignation, for it refers to the appointed time of the end.20 As for the ram that you saw with the two horns, these are the kings of Media and Persia.21 And the goat is the king of Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king.22 As for the horn that was broken, in place of which four others arose, four kingdoms shall arise from his nation, but not with his power.23 And at the latter end of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their limit, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise.24 His power shall be great---but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people who are the saints.25 By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall become great. Without warning he shall destroy many. And he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes, and he shall be broken---but by no human hand.26 The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been told is true, but seal up the vision, for it refers to many days from now."
27 And I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for some days. Then I rose and went about the king's business, but I was appalled by the vision and did not understand, Daniel 8

denotes war.

 

[VCO]

rev is a vision or a dream. not read as wrote.
now ask your self, how dose fire burn inside metal.

rev wrote about 80-91 ad

3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

0 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet11 saying, "Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."

how can a loud voice sound like a trumpet.

write what you see.

is he writing what he hears or what he see.

are you looking for big signs or small.

That is symbolism or figurative speech discribing our LORD's booming VOICE as one WHO SPEAKS BOLDLY and CONFIDENTLY, because HE SPEAKS WITH ALL AUTHORITY.

 

[royalscot]

That is symbolism or figurative speech discribing our LORD's booming VOICE as one WHO SPEAKS BOLDLY and CONFIDENTLY, because HE SPEAKS WITH ALL AUTHORITY.

that the problem it a vision or a dream, how can it be read as wrote. how can a man describe a light bulb, if he never seen one.
if god for told or for seen, what value would a light bulb be, if you cant power it. to that time in history. but by his vision history followed dan dream. ie kings and wars

ie coming from god, knowing all things. HE SPEAKS WITH ALL AUTHORITY.[

history to dan dream came to pass. to a degree ie following the kings via war to keep it short.

 

[VCO]

that the problem it a vision or a dream, how can it be read as wrote. how can a man describe a light bulb, if he never seen one.
if god for told or for seen, what value would a light bulb be, if you cant power it. to that time in history. but by his vision history followed dan dream. ie kings and wars

ie coming from god, knowing all things. HE SPEAKS WITH ALL AUTHORITY.[

history to dan dream came to pass. to a degree ie following the kings via war to keep it short.

Those who CANNOT see the figurative speech in the Scripture, not only MISS the Spiritual meanings of a lot of the Scriptures, but are led into all kinds of misinterpretations:

Psalm 91:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He will cover you with His feathers; you will take refuge under His wings. His faithfulness will be a protective shield.

Do you see the spiritual Truths in this example of figurative speech?



If not, you could be thinking of GOD as some kind of Super-Chicken.

 

[JesusIsAll]

There is no passage in the Bible that supports the view of any "rapture" before the Tribulation.

​

Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

John 14:1-3 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

1 Thessalonians 1:8-10 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Romans 5:8-9 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Interesting of Geneva Bible: 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that the man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition, which is an adversary, and exalteth himself against all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he doeth sit as God in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doeth already work; only he which now withholdeth, shall let till he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked man be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall abolish with the brightness of his coming.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Jude 1:14-15 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh WITH ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Revelation 19:11-14)

Genesis 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark.

Genesis 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

Psalms 27:4-5 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple. For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.

Isaiah 26:19-21 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-6 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

 

[VCO]

RUSSIAN CALVARY FIGURATIVELY:

RUSSIAN CALVARY MODERN REALITY:

CHINESE CALVARY HORSEMAN FIGURATIVELY:

CHINESE CALVARY MODERN REALITY:

IRANIAN CALVARY FIGURATIVELY:

IRANIAN CALVARY MODERN REALITY:

ISRAEL WILL SOAR ON WINGS LIKE EAGLES FIGURATIVELY:

ISRAEL WILL SOAR ON WINGS LIKE EAGLES MODERN REALITY:

 

[JesusIsAll]

Very impressive pictures and imagery, though this is still short of explaining a missile falling from somebody's right hand or burning tank parts at a cookout. Unless the images are from Loony Tunes, I'm not that easily tractable. But do let me know when you open your museum. LOL!

 

[prove-all]

You have to put yourself in Ezekiel's shoes, knowing NOTHING about modern warfare, and forced to describe what he is seeing. the weapons that set everything on fire, burning everything, including the weapons themselves, may be how he saw nukes going off. spears could be missiles, etc. And if nukes are involved it would be awhile before the tanks are removed from the battlefield, and then they may salvage the fuel to use to heat their homes. HENCE they use the weapons in Ezekiel's eye to fire up their stoves, and he can only equate that to burning wood.

Ezekiel 1:21 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] When the creatures moved, the wheels moved; when the creatures stood still, the wheels stood still; and when the creatures rose from the earth, the wheels rose alongside them, for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.

Could he be seeing tanks, having NO IDEA what he was seeing, and thus this is the best he could describe it. Like John, I suspect Ezekiel was told to write down what he saw.

Ezekiel 10:10 (GW)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] All four wheels looked the same. Each was like a wheel within a wheel.


And here is what I think Ezekiel was looking at, not have ANY idea what it was:

um Ezekiel 1 is a vechicle that God drives

an actual object with living creatures, not a tank

This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord.
And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

 

[JesusIsAll]

To my mind, one could conclude the Lord inspired Ezekiel just to describe a war as he knew armies in his day, then maybe diesel fuel or whatever is meant, as opposed to Ezekiel's time that used wood. But this is highly unsatisfactory, given the literal precision throughout the Bible, which is already proven in hundreds of fulfilled properties. I can't even imagine this passage as one with an angel coming down, "Now, Ezekiel, let me explain the mysteries of bows and arrows, handstaves, spears and burning wood to cook."