Is there such a thing as an atheist?

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K

Kerry

Guest
You're nitpicking things that have been created by people. You're ignoring all the stuff out there that isn't man made. Of course books, buildings, paper, tennis balls, dominoes, etc., were created by people. But stars, stalactites, sand, lava, mountains, etc. were not created by people or even other living animals. So why are you intentionally nitpicking? Also, why do you only apply certain properties from the samples you provide? You mention that these manmade objects were created, therefore everything must have been created. Why so vague? All the things you mentioned were created by human beings, does this mean human beings created the universe?

You're nitpicking and applying principles of some objects to all objects. I can name numerous songs in which the musicians were inspired by jazz, does that mean all musicians were inspired by jazz? No.



This is true for everything we've observed so far. We don't know how the universe began so we really don't know and therefore we can't say for sure.



Of course we can predict sunrise and sunset because reality is consistent within itself and we are able to measure these consistencies. You act as if this should be impossible without a mind behind it, but there's no evidence for this what-so-ever. You hold these views because they're intuitive to you. But our own perceptions can be very misleading. What seems intuitive can be wrong. At one point in time, it was intuitive that the world was flat. Now we know better and with understanding we now accept the world is round despite how it seems like it shouldn't be.



And you like to play tennis with a pool noodle while wearing a cowboy hat.

Instead of making assumptions about us, why don't you ask us for answers instead?

[video=youtube;8oa_3HC8vdQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oa_3HC8vdQ&list=UUc_xdkOBgSYLmXTn-VSQ4uA[/video]



We're simply responding to the thread targeting what we do and do not believe. And throughout this thread, we have been asked what we believe and why. We're not picking a part Christianity, not on this site. We're being responsive to those who are either curious or those who spread misinformation about us.



Many atheists question whether it's healthy to tell children Santa is real. But the thing is, most parents reveal Santa isn't real to their children unless their children find out first.

As for Mickey Mouse, everyone knows he isn't real except for maybe small children (who quickly learn he isn't real).



1. Most of us come from North America or Europe where the vast majority of people are Chrisitian.
2. Because Christianity plays a larger role in our local societies and politics than other religions.

If a group of people began to preach how Mickey Mouse is real with utmost sincerity, then I would tell them they were wrong. And if so many people believed in Mickey Mouse they started creating laws and social standards revolving around the idea that he's real, then I would speak out against Mickey Mouse believers as much as I would call out Christians.



And you speak against atheism because the mere idea that God isn't real makes you want to wet yourself.

Yes? No? Don't make assumptions about us and I won't make assumptions about you.

We speak against what we feel is untrue. We believe Christianity is untrue and we have plenty of reasons for thinking so. We have plenty of reasons for speaking out against Christianity. If you want to know why, ask us - don't make assumptions.



I'm a human being - I am not a god. Other atheists will say the same thing.

Again, you can't imagine how someone can lack belief in a god. Therefore, if someone doesn't believe in Yahweh or Vishnu or Allah, then they must think of themselves as a god. Newsflash, there are people out there who believe the total sum of gods is ZERO. We don't believe ourselves to be gods, this is merely a projection of your own idea of what it must be like to be an atheist - which is dead wrong.



I guess you've never heard of Draw Muhammad Day.

Most atheists are also critical of Islam and other religions as well. The reason we don't spend as much time talking about the other religions is because most of the people around us are Christian. In fact, most English speaking people from North America and Europe are Christian, which means we're going to end up discussing Christianity more often than Islam or Hinduism since barely any English speakers follow either of those religions.

If we grew up speaking Indian and lived under a government that applies Hindu law to our society, we would spend most of our time speaking against Hinduism. If we grew up in a Muslim nation, we would want to speak out against Islam - of course Muslim nations tend to arrest and kill those who speak against Islam...

If Muslims ever gain a large political or social influence in America, you'll hear more atheists talk about how wrong Islam is - trust me. And if they were to try and apply their religious views to our laws - we'd probably stop criticizing Christianity as much since Muslim nations tend to be much less free than today's Christian nations.
But then it's too late and bye bye bacon and sausage and barbecue ribs and pulled pork, and bye bye going to church and freedom of speech, and women dressing like sluts, yeah it's all veils and gowns to the floor, no more strip clubs no Nascar, no NFL, Just Mohammed and nothing else.

Most of England has already been taken over by Sharia law, if you think Mosaic law is tough then fight a hungry lion. But, I fear it's coming as Dear born Michigan already displays, because we wouldn't to offend them no not in any way let's just accept them and do as they do and we have nothing to fear.

Americans where is your backbone, Why can't your children walk down the street and ask for candy without an adult present, I did as a child and so did my brothers. why is it dangerous to walk in the city after dark? After school I would bgo down to the park and play wiffle ball with my friends no parents. I'm talking 12 years old. why can't we do it now? I wonder is this evolution and what do the atheist have to say. I now Cycle or whatever played at the park and rode his bycicle around town without parental supervision, but not his children. WHY? what changed?
 
Feb 16, 2014
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But then it's too late and bye bye bacon and sausage and barbecue ribs and pulled pork, and bye bye going to church and freedom of speech, and women dressing like sluts, yeah it's all veils and gowns to the floor, no more strip clubs no Nascar, no NFL, Just Mohammed and nothing else.
Why did you quote me if you're not going to address anything I said? Particularly the part where I said:

If Muslims ever gain a large political or social influence in America, you'll hear more atheists talk about how wrong Islam is - trust me. And if they were to try and apply their religious views to our laws - we'd probably stop criticizing Christianity as much since Muslim nations tend to be much less free than today's Christian nations.
Atheists aren't talking about Muslims taking over American government if Muslims aren't actually taking over American government. The moment you see a politician try to apply Muslim law to American policies, you'll hear many people speak against them - including atheists.

Most of England has already been taken over by Sharia law
Source.

Americans where is your backbone, Why can't your children walk down the street and ask for candy without an adult present, I did as a child and so did my brothers. why is it dangerous to walk in the city after dark? After school I would bgo down to the park and play wiffle ball with my friends no parents. I'm talking 12 years old. why can't we do it now? I wonder is this evolution and what do the atheist have to say. I now Cycle or whatever played at the park and rode his bycicle around town without parental supervision, but not his children. WHY? what changed?
The amount of media exposure to villains has made parents more cautious than ever.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
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...Of course books, buildings, paper, tennis balls, dominoes, etc., were created by people...
Even something as simple as a paper clips was obviously created by an intelligent, designing human being. Of course.

Paper clips never evolve after billions of years of natural selection and random mutation. Blend all the chemicals that you like and stir the pot for a billion years but it will not happen. Something as simple as a paper clip requires an intelligent designer.

Even more so, well-crafted life forms from single-cell amoebas to human beings with well-coded DNA and elaborate structures and systems require an intelligent designer.
 
Feb 16, 2014
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Even something as simple as a paper clips was obviously created by an intelligent, designing human being. Of course.
I'm going to underline the part you quoted, then bold the part you completely ignored:

You're nitpicking things that have been created by people. You're ignoring all the stuff out there that isn't man made. Of course books, buildings, paper, tennis balls, dominoes, etc., were created by people. But stars, stalactites, sand, lava, mountains, etc. were not created by people or even other living animals.
You're in such a rush to prove me wrong, you failed to address my argument. In fact, I'm not even sure if you noticed my argument in the first place.

Paper clips never evolve after billions of years of natural selection and random mutation. Blend all the chemicals that you like and stir the pot for a billion years but it will not happen. Something as simple as a paper clip requires an intelligent designer.
Premise: Paperclips are not the result of evolution.
Conclusion: Therefore nothing is the result of evolution.

or

Premise 1: All A are not the result of X.
Conclusion: Therefore, all B are not the result of X.

This is a complete nonsequitur! Using your logic, I can make the following argument:

Paperclips aren't born from other paperclips, they're created by man. Therefore, we know humans don't give birth to other humans, they must have been created by a human maker.

Even more so, well-crafted life forms from single-cell amoebas to human beings with well-coded DNA and elaborate structures and systems require an intelligent designer.
The biggest problem is, you're looking at non-organic creations and comparing them to organic matter that evolves.

Even if we had no idea how cells began to form, it doesn't mean we must have been created. It would only mean we don't know.

And before you point out other created objects, keep in mind the following:

You're nitpicking things that have been created by people. You're ignoring all the stuff out there that isn't man made. Of course books, buildings, paper, tennis balls, dominoes, etc., were created by people. But stars, stalactites, sand, lava, mountains, etc. were not created by people or even other living animals. So why are you intentionally nitpicking? Also, why do you only apply certain properties from the samples you provide? You mention that these manmade objects were created, therefore everything must have been created. Why so vague? All the things you mentioned were created by human beings, does this mean human beings created the universe?

You're nitpicking and applying principles of some objects to all objects. I can name numerous songs in which the musicians were inspired by jazz, does that mean all musicians were inspired by jazz? No.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
933
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You're in such a rush to prove me wrong, you failed to address my argument
Duly noted and I will aim to do better next time.

That last post was composed on a tablet in a public place rather than on a laptop in a home or hotel room. I didn't copy/paste or compose to the degree that I probably would have under different conditions. Sometimes, I even compose on a smartphone.

Not everything on these threads gets a response. Parts of posts go without response. Entire posts are overlooked. I think / know that we all exercise some personal discretion in selecting how to respond.

Jazz music requires a skilled, intelligent composer or improvisor and performer. We agree.

Likewise, stars, stalactites, sand, lava, mountains and jazz musicians all require an intelligent Causator or Creator to bring them about. Here, we may disagree. Some causes are primary or direct while other causes are secondary or indirect.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
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...You're in such a rush to prove me wrong, you failed to address my argument...
Percepi, thank you for the time and care that you have put into many of your posts.
 
Sep 14, 2014
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Duly noted and I will aim to do better next time.

That last post was composed on a tablet in a public place rather than on a laptop in a home or hotel room. I didn't copy/paste or compose to the degree that I probably would have under different conditions. Sometimes, I even compose on a smartphone.

Not everything on these threads gets a response. Parts of posts go without response. Entire posts are overlooked. I think / know that we all exercise some personal discretion in selecting how to respond.

Jazz music requires a skilled, intelligent composer or improvisor and performer. We agree.

Likewise, stars, stalactites, sand, lava, mountains and jazz musicians all require an intelligent Causator or Creator to bring them about. Here, we may disagree. Some causes are primary or direct while other causes are secondary or indirect.
So your saying natural formations mentioned above are also created?
 
Feb 16, 2014
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Jazz music requires a skilled, intelligent composer or improvisor and performer. We agree.
I was using jazz as an analogy to help make my point.

Likewise, stars, stalactites, sand, lava, mountains and jazz musicians all require an intelligent Causator or Creator to bring them about.
Premise: ???
Conclusion: Stars, stalactites, sand, lava, mountains, and jazz musicians all require an intelligent causator or creator.

You concluded these things all have a causator/creator, but what's your premise for coming to such a conclusion?

Please avoid making the following logical argument:

Promise: Some things are created by intelligent beings.
Conclusion: All things are created by intelligent beings.

That argument is a nonsequitur. Just because some things are created by intelligent beings doesn't mean all things must be created by intelligent beings. And if you argue God created all things man and animal have not, then your making that your premise: All things are created by intelligent beings. But if your premise is "All things are created by intelligent beings", then how did you conclude your premise? All you're doing is shifting your conclusion to your premise rather than actually proving anything.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
I thought that jazz evolved from big band music and then evolved into Rock n roll which joined with Country western, guess they mated and it worked. Rock n roll died off accept the punk screaming stuff as it all evolved into rap. Yeah there are some that hold on to the old stuff but rap (which is not singing) dominates. I meant, They ain't no paty like a Holy Ghost paty cause a Holy Ghost paty don't stop.
 
Aug 25, 2013
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Likewise, stars, stalactites, sand, lava, mountains and jazz musicians all require an intelligent Causator or Creator to bring them about. Here, we may disagree. Some causes are primary or direct while other causes are secondary or indirect.
I think that when you are saying "Some causes are primary or direct..." you are likely speaking of the creation of the solar system, but would agree that other stars might form as astronomers claim, from large interstellar clouds?
 
Aug 25, 2013
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I thought that jazz evolved from big band music and then evolved into Rock n roll which joined with Country western, guess they mated and it worked...
No, I believe it originated in the South among African-American communities in the late 1800s, but it did evolve into Dixieland, Swing, Rock and so on. I think Big Bands might have helped to make it mainstream.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
What makes the causes? why does light travel at 186,000 miles per second, why not 340,000 miles per second,. I meant why not. Why do we wear clothes no other animal on Earth wears clothes. I meant your dog wags it around and thinks nothing of it. Why? Oh we have bigger brains and that makes us Know better. Makes us know better of what? Monkeys have thick skin and fur and walk around naked, but are not ashamed nor embarrassed. why did the monkey start wearing clothes and became more successful and his children started wearing clothes and only mated with others that wore clothes to get us to this point.

Those dumb Gorillas should have started wearing clothes and it would have made their brain bigger so they could build cities and airplanes.
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
Psalm 14

"This quote" as you put it, doesn't suggest, it emphatically makes that statement. Do you tell them they are dead wrong? I too know people that claim to deny Gods' existence. I tell them they are in trouble and they better stop lying to themselves.
You certainly stood up in defence of them in a hurry. I hope and trust you defend God to them just as swiftly.
what would we say if that saw cut off our finger, maybe were all*atheists*for a time, until we repent. Getting mad at God, and saying you know what is not short from one in heart, sometimes if I like bump myself, and it hurts really bad, i do the opposite, I say, Thank you Lord Jesus, I know I'm unusual. But it just might need to be explained to others, like the Darwin Evolution Theory is explained. EXplain it by teaching others Love. Showing him. IDK. There's no blueprint for it. Bless God.*
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Before Jesus, if I hit my thumb with a hammer it was @#$*&^%()$%. after Jesus if if I hit ny finger with a hammer it was, praise God thank you Jesus.

But Yosemite Sam had the best @%$#& of anyone, getting footing prints all over my dessert and dragons are stupid and somone created Yosemite.
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
from a church marque, to the O.P. -



"God doesn't believe in atheists
-- therefore atheists don't exist"





Thought that was an interesting play on words.
 
Feb 16, 2014
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What makes the causes? why does light travel at 186,000 miles per second, why not 340,000 miles per second,. I meant why not.
I don't know why. But you're suggesting that if light wasn't created that way, then it would be different than what it is. But how is that a logical argument? You're simply assuming that something must have been created or it wouldn't exist as it is. Perhaps if something was created, it would exist differently though. Regardless, we can't draw conclusions just because we think something should or should not be different.

Why do we wear clothes no other animal on Earth wears clothes. I meant your dog wags it around and thinks nothing of it. Why? Oh we have bigger brains and that makes us Know better.
Humans became smart enough to use tools. Clothing is a form of tool we used to protect ourselves from the elements. Clothing didn't originate because exposing our naughty bits was wrong, but because we wanted to keep our naughty bits from freezing in the winter as we traveled north.

what would we say if that saw cut off our finger, maybe were all*atheists*for a time, until we repent.
The definition of an atheist is a person who does not believe in any gods. You don't have to repent to believe in one or more gods.

Getting mad at God
You can't get mad at someone you believe doesn't exist.

"God doesn't believe in atheists
-- therefore atheists don't exist"
This is a play off of "I don't believe in God, therefore God doesn't exist." But choosing not to believe in something doesn't make something not exist. Atheists don't go around thinking, "Hmm, I know God is real, but maybe he'll stop being real if I stop believing in him." Nobody is that stupid.
 
P

phil112

Guest
...............................Humans became smart enough to use tools....................
I am curious as to what you mean here. Are you saying they became more intelligent, perhaps by learning, or that the brain literally increased in size? I am aware of no studies or research that points to proof of brain development being part of "evolution". Humans have always been smart.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
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I'd like to explore this a little if that's ok. Genesis is pretty straightforward to read. I understand fully the story being told. I just don't believe it's true.

When you read it, you read exactly the same story as me. The same people, same events and same outcomes.... It's exactly the same story. So how does you believing it to be true alter the story in any way?
The story is not altered even though there are several of us with different opinions reading it.....But I come up with questions like - This story tells me where a 7 day week comes from back in the beginning... So why do we still have a 7 day week if the story is not true? This story tells me that man is created by God.... So why do men tell me I came from a monkey? This story tells me that God can create something out of nothing....But why do men who were created question God who created them? What do we know? We are just dust and breath from God that is....and when we die Why do we return to dust? Where does the breath go? Bible says it goes back to God.

To me the logical explanations are given to us already in the form of God's word the Bible, but so many think it is just a book of fiction or man made up. But for me it is a logical explanation of where I come from and where I am going and how I got here and why I am here and gives me instructions on what I am suppose to do in the mean time.

I think everyone would agree that if all people on earth followed the principles set forth in this book that this world would be a much better place to live in. What is wrong with loving God with all our hearts and our neighbors as ourselves? The problem is that most people don't follow these directions and we can all see the result by just looking around at how we treat each other. But God's plan and way if followed and implemented would make a perfect world. Too bad we ignore Him.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
933
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He who commits sin is of the devil. (1 John 3:8) [This means that all of us have been "of the devil" at times.]

"Man has no right to anything but lives on the alms of God's charity and grace."

"What is sin but a departure from God? And what is the doom of sinners but departure from God? It is as if God should say to them, You liked departing while you lived; now depart from me. You would none of me nor my company; now I will none of you or yours. Depart from us, is the cry of sinners to God (Job 21.14). Depart from me, will be the cry of God to sinners."

"One sin though committed but once is one and once too much."

Derived from Ralph Venning, Sin: The Plague of Plagues (The Sinfulness of Sin) (1669)