Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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Would you prefer that I ask if you died tonight would you go to heaven? What is the reason for the hope that lieth within you? The question probes to ascertain if there is any hope in the first place. Knowing that Roman Catholicism does not teach that one may know if they are saved.
It is intended to offend the self righteousness that they might see the righteousness of Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
It is intended to offend the self righteousness that they might see the righteousness of Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You must judge me according to your beliefs. Scripture teaches that the redeemed of the Lord say so. Psalm 107:2 If you practice your religion then you have no assurance of salvation. You are hoping with your fingers and toes crossed that you will make it on your merits. Hoping for a short stint in the fires of purgatory which factually have no end.
You are helping the church to save you. You by your doctrine do not believe that the grace of God is wholly sufficient to save and that God can impute His righteousness to those who call upon Jesus to save them. You cannot forgive yourself so you cannot accept that God forgives even the vilest sinner who calls upon Christ according to the scriptures.
Salvation is not by the will of man but God draws men to His Son and saves them. The word of God and the Holy Spirit of God reveal to man his need of the Son of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You are helping the church to save you. You by your doctrine do not believe that the grace of God is wholly sufficient to save and that God can impute His righteousness to those who call upon Jesus to save them. You cannot forgive yourself so you cannot accept that God forgives even the vilest sinner who calls upon Christ according to the scriptures.
Salvation is not by the will of man but God draws men to His Son and saves them. The word of God and the Holy Spirit of God reveal to man his need of the Son of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Let's test your nerve a little further.
We are in agreement then that the church has no part in salvation. The church has no grace whereby men may be saved. Salvation is of the Lord.
I agree that one must know if they are saved. Scripture testifies to that fact. You have never asserted that you are saved.
I did not ask if Jesus was sufficient for mankind but for your sin. Is Jesus your personal Savior? Do you know Jesus and does Jesus know you?
What assurance do you have that if you died tonight that you would be with the Lord?
I find it curious that you distain church doctrine when it is read back to you.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
We are in agreement then that the church has no part in salvation. The church has no grace whereby men may be saved. Salvation is of the Lord.
I agree that one must know if they are saved. Scripture testifies to that fact. You have never asserted that you are saved.
I did not ask if Jesus was sufficient for mankind but for your sin. Is Jesus your personal Savior? Do you know Jesus and does Jesus know you?
What assurance do you have that if you died tonight that you would be with the Lord?
I find it curious that you distain church doctrine when it is read back to you.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Assurance of salvation? Then why did Jesus Christ say that we must “endure to the end to be saved”? (See Mt 10:22; 24:13; Mk 13:13).
Another anti-Catholic lie. Purgatory is for the saved. You are really confused.
We are saved by grace, that is a Catholic teaching you borrowed. But imputed righteousness? That is a reformist heresy. I shall qualify:
If what you are saying is true, this means that you can’t claim “to be saved” at this point in time in your life (although I bet you do). This is because, as you may say, “the people who endure to the end prove their faith and are the same ones who are saved.” Since the demonstration of whether or not one is saved is whether or not the person “endures to the end,” you can never know that you are saved until “the end,” that is, when you die. Thank you, Roger, for demonstrating the error of “once saved, always saved.”
The doctrine of "once saved, always saved" was invented by John Calvin during the Reformation. Under this theory, the Protestant believes that one is saved when he accepts Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. This is comforting - after all, who wouldn't want assurance? According to this view, true Christians are the ones who will persevere to the end. For those who accepted Christ during their lives but did not persevere to the end, the doctrine calls these people superficial Christians. So true Christians will go to heaven and superficial Christians will not. Not only is this teaching not Scriptural, it is difficult to accept the teaching on reason.
The only distinction between a true Christian and a superficial Christian is that the superficial Christian did not persevere to the end. Otherwise, the two types of Christians appear to be the same. The superficial Christian has all the earmarks of a true Christian except that he did not persevere. But this necessarily means that the true Christian cannot know that he really is a true Christian either until the end of his life. He, too, won't know whether his conversion was genuine until the end of his life. Therefore, despite all the talk about assurance, he cannot be sure.
This doctrine, therefore, actually gives its adherents less assurance of their salvation. It necessarily imposes upon them uncertainty until the end. The Catholic (and Scriptural) view, however, does give assurance to the believer that he is in fact currently saved (a true Christian), and that, if he perseveres to the end, he will be saved at death. We also know that God will give all the graces necessary for us to be faithful to the end (because of our freewill, the question is always whether we will accept the grace or not). Thus, Catholics know that it is theirs to lose. Protestant Calvinists don't even know whether it is theirs to begin with.
Roger, you need to stop making up lies about what Catholicism teaches, then attacking them. It's called a straw man argument.
Another anti-Catholic lie. Purgatory is for the saved. You are really confused.
We are saved by grace, that is a Catholic teaching you borrowed. But imputed righteousness? That is a reformist heresy. I shall qualify:
If what you are saying is true, this means that you can’t claim “to be saved” at this point in time in your life (although I bet you do). This is because, as you may say, “the people who endure to the end prove their faith and are the same ones who are saved.” Since the demonstration of whether or not one is saved is whether or not the person “endures to the end,” you can never know that you are saved until “the end,” that is, when you die. Thank you, Roger, for demonstrating the error of “once saved, always saved.”
The doctrine of "once saved, always saved" was invented by John Calvin during the Reformation. Under this theory, the Protestant believes that one is saved when he accepts Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. This is comforting - after all, who wouldn't want assurance? According to this view, true Christians are the ones who will persevere to the end. For those who accepted Christ during their lives but did not persevere to the end, the doctrine calls these people superficial Christians. So true Christians will go to heaven and superficial Christians will not. Not only is this teaching not Scriptural, it is difficult to accept the teaching on reason.
The only distinction between a true Christian and a superficial Christian is that the superficial Christian did not persevere to the end. Otherwise, the two types of Christians appear to be the same. The superficial Christian has all the earmarks of a true Christian except that he did not persevere. But this necessarily means that the true Christian cannot know that he really is a true Christian either until the end of his life. He, too, won't know whether his conversion was genuine until the end of his life. Therefore, despite all the talk about assurance, he cannot be sure.
This doctrine, therefore, actually gives its adherents less assurance of their salvation. It necessarily imposes upon them uncertainty until the end. The Catholic (and Scriptural) view, however, does give assurance to the believer that he is in fact currently saved (a true Christian), and that, if he perseveres to the end, he will be saved at death. We also know that God will give all the graces necessary for us to be faithful to the end (because of our freewill, the question is always whether we will accept the grace or not). Thus, Catholics know that it is theirs to lose. Protestant Calvinists don't even know whether it is theirs to begin with.
Roger, you need to stop making up lies about what Catholicism teaches, then attacking them. It's called a straw man argument.
Proper exegesis in context reveals that Jesus is not speaking to NT Christians but to Jews who would in the future endure the tribulation.
You mean that it is another Catholic lie. Purgatory is a fabrication of Rome for the scripture does not provide any basis for men paying for their sins. All sins are fully paid by Jesus on the cross or Calvary. 2 Corinthians 5:21 God imputes His righteousness to us through Christ. You are not righteous except God makes you righteous in Christ. That is what grace does. It takes the unworthy sinner and make him a son in Christ with an eternal inheritance.
No lies just the truth according to the scriptures. If you could support your fabrications with scripture I'm certain that you would.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You mean that it is another Catholic lie. Purgatory is a fabrication of Rome for the scripture does not provide any basis for men paying for their sins. All sins are fully paid by Jesus on the cross or Calvary. 2 Corinthians 5:21 God imputes His righteousness to us through Christ. You are not righteous except God makes you righteous in Christ. That is what grace does. It takes the unworthy sinner and make him a son in Christ with an eternal inheritance.
No lies just the truth according to the scriptures. If you could support your fabrications with scripture I'm certain that you would.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Roger,
You have twisted scripture in responding to kepha. And you just thoroughly ignored what I wrote. I said that one can have assurance of their salvation. That is taught by the Catholic Church. I said that no one can know whether anyone else is saved or not with assurance, since that is between them and God. You ignored that and responded to what you wanted to respond to. You think yourself better than us, and ignore us. You are unwilling to even discuss or think on what we are writing. You say that our problem must be with God and not you. However, Roger YOU ARE NOT GOD! You are not His appointed messenger. You are fallible. You can be wrong. (AND BTW, I know you are going to take this part and make some comment about the Pope, I ask for you to honestly stop and think about the fact that you are talking to people, and not a computer). It is entirely unfortunate that you sit behind your computer, seemingly uneffected by the fact that you just simply continue to barge ahead. Even when your fellow Protestants (you are a Protestant) come forward to make points of order, or just simply to say that you don't speak for them, you attack them too. You claim they aren't interpreting Scripture correctly, or have a problem with God and not you. I'm sorry Roger, you are not that perfect. None of us are. It is what is most disconcerting to myself and most of the Catholics here. It's not that you don't agree with us, that's fine. There are many non-Catholics on this site that I respect deeply even though we have doctrinal differences. What it is Roger is you are unwilling to step into another's shoes. You see through your eyes, and only your eyes. You do not empathize. You do not recognize that you MIGHT, POSSIBLY, MAYBE, JUST A SMIDGE, be wrong. No one is that perfect, outside of Christ.
Yours in Christ,
Colin
You have twisted scripture in responding to kepha. And you just thoroughly ignored what I wrote. I said that one can have assurance of their salvation. That is taught by the Catholic Church. I said that no one can know whether anyone else is saved or not with assurance, since that is between them and God. You ignored that and responded to what you wanted to respond to. You think yourself better than us, and ignore us. You are unwilling to even discuss or think on what we are writing. You say that our problem must be with God and not you. However, Roger YOU ARE NOT GOD! You are not His appointed messenger. You are fallible. You can be wrong. (AND BTW, I know you are going to take this part and make some comment about the Pope, I ask for you to honestly stop and think about the fact that you are talking to people, and not a computer). It is entirely unfortunate that you sit behind your computer, seemingly uneffected by the fact that you just simply continue to barge ahead. Even when your fellow Protestants (you are a Protestant) come forward to make points of order, or just simply to say that you don't speak for them, you attack them too. You claim they aren't interpreting Scripture correctly, or have a problem with God and not you. I'm sorry Roger, you are not that perfect. None of us are. It is what is most disconcerting to myself and most of the Catholics here. It's not that you don't agree with us, that's fine. There are many non-Catholics on this site that I respect deeply even though we have doctrinal differences. What it is Roger is you are unwilling to step into another's shoes. You see through your eyes, and only your eyes. You do not empathize. You do not recognize that you MIGHT, POSSIBLY, MAYBE, JUST A SMIDGE, be wrong. No one is that perfect, outside of Christ.
Yours in Christ,
Colin
Great so you believe that you can know if you are saved. When did the church change its position on that matter? Care to reference it for me?
Are you certain of your salvation? Can you provide a verse of scripture upon which you base your hope of salvation?
I believe that many protestants on CC are not saved either. I would like to hope that they are but in the absence of biblical evidence there is little possibility of it. Same with the Catholics.
If I'm a little stern on the matter of salvation then that's the way it will just have to be. It is a matter of so great an importance that there can be no margin for error. It is the narrow gate and it is not the broad path. Few there be that enter therein.
Do not deceive yourself to thinking that God will accommodate anything short of what He has prescribed to remedy sin and to restore eternal life.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Are you certain of your salvation? Can you provide a verse of scripture upon which you base your hope of salvation?
I believe that many protestants on CC are not saved either. I would like to hope that they are but in the absence of biblical evidence there is little possibility of it. Same with the Catholics.
If I'm a little stern on the matter of salvation then that's the way it will just have to be. It is a matter of so great an importance that there can be no margin for error. It is the narrow gate and it is not the broad path. Few there be that enter therein.
Do not deceive yourself to thinking that God will accommodate anything short of what He has prescribed to remedy sin and to restore eternal life.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I don't question your salvation, Roger. I object to what you think Catholicism teaches. Learning about Catholicism from anti-Catholic sources rots the mind. It's evident to me that many in here have swallowed down whole lie after lie, then they go after Catholics thinking they have some kind of upper hand. Catholics don't want an upper hand, nor do we want a moral high ground. We want that for everybody. At the same time we have the right to defend and explain. The sticky thread "Catholic heresies" (for the record) is insulting and uncalled for. If Catholics are not Christians, then there were no Christians for 1500 years. The opening post went on at length about Mary. I demonstrated in several posts that it is not Catholics that is in heresy. The Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Seventh Day Adventists do not hold the same view with the reformers and Catholics on the Immaculate Conception, so will the real heretic please stand up?
Sometimes Fundamentalists portray Catholics as if they must every moment be in terror of losing their salvation since Catholics recognize that it is possible to lose salvation through mortal sin. Fundamentalists then hold out the idea that, rather than living every moment in terror, they can have a calm, assured knowledge that they will, in fact, be saved, and that nothing will ever be able to change this fact.
But this portrayal is in error. Catholics do not live lives of mortal terror concerning salvation. True, salvation can be lost through mortal sin, but such sins are by nature grave ones, and not the kind that a person living the Christian life is going to slip into committing on the spur of the moment, without deliberate thought and consent. Neither does the Catholic Church teach that one cannot have an assurance of salvation. This is true both of present and future salvation.
One can be confident of one’s present salvation. This is one of the chief reasons why God gave us the sacraments—to provide visible assurances that he is invisibly providing us with his grace. And one can be confident that one has not thrown away that grace by simply examining one’s life and seeing whether one has committed mortal sin. Indeed, the tests that John sets forth in his first epistle to help us know whether we are abiding in grace are, in essence, tests of whether we are dwelling in grave sin. For example, "By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother" (1 John 3:10), "If any one says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen" (1 John 4:20), "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3).
Likewise, by looking at the course of one’s life in grace and the resolution of one’s heart to keep following God, one can also have an assurance of future salvation. It is this Paul speaks of when he writes to the Philippians and says, "And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6). This is not a promise for all Christians, or even necessarily all in the church at Philippi, but it is a confidence that the Philippian Christians in general would make it. The basis of this is their spiritual performance to date, and Paul feels a need to explain to them that there is a basis for his confidence in them. Thus he says, immediately, "It is right for me to feel thus about you all, because I hold you in my heart, for you are all partakers with me of grace, both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel" (1:7). The fact that the Philippians performed spiritually by assisting Paul in his imprisonment and ministry showed that their hearts were with God and that it could be expected that they, at least in general, would persevere and remain with God.
There are many saintly men and women who have long lived the Christian life and whose characters are marked with profound spiritual joy and peace. Such individuals can look forward with confidence to their reception in heaven.
Such an individual was Paul, writing at the end of his life, "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day" (2 Tim. 4:7-8). But earlier in life, even Paul did not claim an infallible assurance, either of his present justification or of his remaining in grace in the future. Concerning his present state, he wrote, "I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified [Gk., dedikaiomai]. It is the Lord who judges me" (1 Cor. 4:4). Concerning his remaining life, Paul was frank in admitting that even he could fall away: "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27). Of course, for a spiritual giant such as Paul, it would be quite unexpected and out of character for him to fall from God’s grace. Nevertheless, he points out that, however much confidence in his own salvation he may be warranted in feeling, even he cannot be infallibly sure either of his own present state or of his future course.
The same is true of us. We can, if our lives display a pattern of perseverance and spiritual fruit, have not only a confidence in our present state of grace but also of our future perseverance with God. Yet we cannot have an infallible certitude of our own salvation, as many Protestants will admit. There is the possibility of self-deception (cf. Matt. 7:22-23). As Jeremiah expressed it, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?" (Jer. 17:9). There is also the possibility of falling from grace through mortal sin, and even of falling away from the faith entirely, for as Jesus told us, there are those who "believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away" (Luke 8:13). It is in the light of these warnings and admonitions that we must understand Scripture’s positive statements concerning our ability to know and have confidence in our salvation. Assurance we may have; infallible certitude we may not.
For example, Philippians 2:12 says, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." This is not the language of self-confident assurance. Our salvation is something that remains to be worked out.
What To Say
"Are you saved?" asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: "As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."
Are you certain of your salvation? Can you provide a verse of scripture upon which you base your hope of salvation?
I believe that many protestants on CC are not saved either. I would like to hope that they are but in the absence of biblical evidence there is little possibility of it. Same with the Catholics.
If I'm a little stern on the matter of salvation then that's the way it will just have to be. It is a matter of so great an importance that there can be no margin for error. It is the narrow gate and it is not the broad path. Few there be that enter therein.
Do not deceive yourself to thinking that God will accommodate anything short of what He has prescribed to remedy sin and to restore eternal life.
For the cause of Christ
Roger[/QUOTE]
But this portrayal is in error. Catholics do not live lives of mortal terror concerning salvation. True, salvation can be lost through mortal sin, but such sins are by nature grave ones, and not the kind that a person living the Christian life is going to slip into committing on the spur of the moment, without deliberate thought and consent. Neither does the Catholic Church teach that one cannot have an assurance of salvation. This is true both of present and future salvation.
One can be confident of one’s present salvation. This is one of the chief reasons why God gave us the sacraments—to provide visible assurances that he is invisibly providing us with his grace. And one can be confident that one has not thrown away that grace by simply examining one’s life and seeing whether one has committed mortal sin. Indeed, the tests that John sets forth in his first epistle to help us know whether we are abiding in grace are, in essence, tests of whether we are dwelling in grave sin. For example, "By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother" (1 John 3:10), "If any one says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen" (1 John 4:20), "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3).
Likewise, by looking at the course of one’s life in grace and the resolution of one’s heart to keep following God, one can also have an assurance of future salvation. It is this Paul speaks of when he writes to the Philippians and says, "And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6). This is not a promise for all Christians, or even necessarily all in the church at Philippi, but it is a confidence that the Philippian Christians in general would make it. The basis of this is their spiritual performance to date, and Paul feels a need to explain to them that there is a basis for his confidence in them. Thus he says, immediately, "It is right for me to feel thus about you all, because I hold you in my heart, for you are all partakers with me of grace, both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel" (1:7). The fact that the Philippians performed spiritually by assisting Paul in his imprisonment and ministry showed that their hearts were with God and that it could be expected that they, at least in general, would persevere and remain with God.
There are many saintly men and women who have long lived the Christian life and whose characters are marked with profound spiritual joy and peace. Such individuals can look forward with confidence to their reception in heaven.
Such an individual was Paul, writing at the end of his life, "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day" (2 Tim. 4:7-8). But earlier in life, even Paul did not claim an infallible assurance, either of his present justification or of his remaining in grace in the future. Concerning his present state, he wrote, "I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified [Gk., dedikaiomai]. It is the Lord who judges me" (1 Cor. 4:4). Concerning his remaining life, Paul was frank in admitting that even he could fall away: "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27). Of course, for a spiritual giant such as Paul, it would be quite unexpected and out of character for him to fall from God’s grace. Nevertheless, he points out that, however much confidence in his own salvation he may be warranted in feeling, even he cannot be infallibly sure either of his own present state or of his future course.
The same is true of us. We can, if our lives display a pattern of perseverance and spiritual fruit, have not only a confidence in our present state of grace but also of our future perseverance with God. Yet we cannot have an infallible certitude of our own salvation, as many Protestants will admit. There is the possibility of self-deception (cf. Matt. 7:22-23). As Jeremiah expressed it, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?" (Jer. 17:9). There is also the possibility of falling from grace through mortal sin, and even of falling away from the faith entirely, for as Jesus told us, there are those who "believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away" (Luke 8:13). It is in the light of these warnings and admonitions that we must understand Scripture’s positive statements concerning our ability to know and have confidence in our salvation. Assurance we may have; infallible certitude we may not.
For example, Philippians 2:12 says, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." This is not the language of self-confident assurance. Our salvation is something that remains to be worked out.
What To Say
"Are you saved?" asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: "As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."
Are you certain of your salvation? Can you provide a verse of scripture upon which you base your hope of salvation?
I believe that many protestants on CC are not saved either. I would like to hope that they are but in the absence of biblical evidence there is little possibility of it. Same with the Catholics.
If I'm a little stern on the matter of salvation then that's the way it will just have to be. It is a matter of so great an importance that there can be no margin for error. It is the narrow gate and it is not the broad path. Few there be that enter therein.
Do not deceive yourself to thinking that God will accommodate anything short of what He has prescribed to remedy sin and to restore eternal life.
For the cause of Christ
Roger[/QUOTE]
Following Catholic doctrine steals the soul. It is very arrogant to say that if Catholics were not Christians then there were no Christians for the 1500 years preceding the reformation. Catholics today are by definition not Christian. They are what they claim to be and that is Catholic. Christians are born again by the quickening power of the Holy Spirit. This is Gods method of saving souls. By grace through faith wholly apart from works done by man.
Save your breath on Mary and the JW's, Mormons, and SDA's. Hiding behind the errors of others is no security against the truth of Gods word.
Salvation is not wrought by a prescribed set of rituals done on a prescribed time table. Parents cannot make their children Christians by infant baptism, confirmation and first confession, first communion. The Holy Spirit draws a man to Christ or he cannot come. Drawing by conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment.
The light of Gods truth hurts the eyes of the unsaved. It is not an insult to illustrate the errors of Rome from Gods word.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Save your breath on Mary and the JW's, Mormons, and SDA's. Hiding behind the errors of others is no security against the truth of Gods word.
Salvation is not wrought by a prescribed set of rituals done on a prescribed time table. Parents cannot make their children Christians by infant baptism, confirmation and first confession, first communion. The Holy Spirit draws a man to Christ or he cannot come. Drawing by conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment.
The light of Gods truth hurts the eyes of the unsaved. It is not an insult to illustrate the errors of Rome from Gods word.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Rome knows they are not teaching the truth so they provide a guide to insulate their servants from Gods truth. I have encountered this before and it is a very slanted misrepresentation of the listed scriptures. Roman Catholic teachers know this quite well but count on the lack of biblical teaching among the laity. As well the lack of interest among the laity for sound biblical doctrine or they would be exposed and embarrassed.
Rome today is little more than a Gentile version of Judaism.
We can deal with all the scriptures you present but for the sake of time and not wanting to create a wall of scripture with many will not read through lets look at one.
Mat 7:22-23. You wish to teach that this is self deception and that is quite true. These are souls that claim to come to Christ but were never able to receive Christ. Why would some come and not receive? Did not Christ say He would receive the whosoever's? God has said that He would draw men to Christ and that men could not come of their own will or methods. This is an outstanding example of how Rome works. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss it. Rome follows the pattern established by tradition of infant baptism, confirmation and first confession and communion none of which is Gods pattern for saving souls. No man comes to the Father except he is drawn by the Son John 14:6 Men are saved by Gods will not their will. John 1:13
Rome is big on substituting religion for saving grace. So many conditions and so many misrepresentations of Gods truth.
Your sources are incredibly biased toward the Roman Catholic traditions. Why don't you supply some good bible teachers like Ian R.K. Paisley or Billy Sunday or Dr. Bob Jones instead of those of less sterling reputations. I'll bet Rome has a lot to say about Paisley.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Rome today is little more than a Gentile version of Judaism.
We can deal with all the scriptures you present but for the sake of time and not wanting to create a wall of scripture with many will not read through lets look at one.
Mat 7:22-23. You wish to teach that this is self deception and that is quite true. These are souls that claim to come to Christ but were never able to receive Christ. Why would some come and not receive? Did not Christ say He would receive the whosoever's? God has said that He would draw men to Christ and that men could not come of their own will or methods. This is an outstanding example of how Rome works. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss it. Rome follows the pattern established by tradition of infant baptism, confirmation and first confession and communion none of which is Gods pattern for saving souls. No man comes to the Father except he is drawn by the Son John 14:6 Men are saved by Gods will not their will. John 1:13
Rome is big on substituting religion for saving grace. So many conditions and so many misrepresentations of Gods truth.
Your sources are incredibly biased toward the Roman Catholic traditions. Why don't you supply some good bible teachers like Ian R.K. Paisley or Billy Sunday or Dr. Bob Jones instead of those of less sterling reputations. I'll bet Rome has a lot to say about Paisley.
For the cause of Christ
Roger