Catholic Heresy (for the record)
- Thread starter RoboOp
- Start date
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Your perception is your reality. God declares you to be in error. Your argument is not with me but with God.
You are typical of the Catholic apologists. You argue from your traditions and cannot accept scripture as the superior authority. I have not called you a liar but Catholic traditions are lies when they directly contradict what the scriptures teach.
You cannot demonstrate purgatory from the bible. If there were any such place Luke 16 would teach that those who are there have no hope of ever escaping. This is teaching from Jesus Himself. So who is being dishonest?
Don't flee the light of truth embrace it.
Perhaps you should explain why you consider yourself in Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You are typical of the Catholic apologists. You argue from your traditions and cannot accept scripture as the superior authority. I have not called you a liar but Catholic traditions are lies when they directly contradict what the scriptures teach.
You cannot demonstrate purgatory from the bible. If there were any such place Luke 16 would teach that those who are there have no hope of ever escaping. This is teaching from Jesus Himself. So who is being dishonest?
Don't flee the light of truth embrace it.
Perhaps you should explain why you consider yourself in Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
^ Bad logic.
Jesus died. So Jesus is sinner too?
View attachment 89110
Yes, Jesus rose from the dead, as will those who are in Him.
The resurrection of the dead. (1 Cor 15; 42-49)
Jesus died. So Jesus is sinner too?
View attachment 89110
Yes, Jesus rose from the dead, as will those who are in Him.
The resurrection of the dead. (1 Cor 15; 42-49)
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Hey everyone, Jesus did not die for Roger's sins.
Well, I can assure you, Roger, that He did die for mine.
Imagine my surprise to see that you don't know that Jesus died for our sins.
"For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures,.."
- 1 Cor 15; 3-4
"For God has destined us not for wrath but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep we may live with him."
1 Thes 5: 9-10
Roger, you are indeed a heretic. Your aim is to lead people away from the Truth. Away from God. To deny outright the sacrifice that Christ made for us.
You really are pitiful.
Well, I can assure you, Roger, that He did die for mine.
Imagine my surprise to see that you don't know that Jesus died for our sins.
"For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures,.."
- 1 Cor 15; 3-4
"For God has destined us not for wrath but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep we may live with him."
1 Thes 5: 9-10
Roger, you are indeed a heretic. Your aim is to lead people away from the Truth. Away from God. To deny outright the sacrifice that Christ made for us.
You really are pitiful.
I am not discussing purgatory, sacramental grace, or Sacred Tradition. I am discussing the absurdity of the thread title while no one in here can identify the origins of "Mary is a sinner" when it was not taught, found or documented for some 1700 years or more, and not popular until the last 50 years. It is a tradition of men.
^ Bad logic.
Jesus died. So Jesus is sinner too?
View attachment 89110
Yes, Jesus rose from the dead, as will those who are in Him.
The resurrection of the dead. (1 Cor 15; 42-49)
Jesus died. So Jesus is sinner too?
View attachment 89110
Yes, Jesus rose from the dead, as will those who are in Him.
The resurrection of the dead. (1 Cor 15; 42-49)
The wage of sin is die. It is not my logic. It is the bible.
Jesus die for sin too, for my sin and every body who accept Him sin.
Is Mary die for my sin too? I don't think so. She die for her own sin.
Professing yourself to be wise. Jesus had no sin. The soul that sinneth it shall surely die. No sin means no death. Eternal God cannot die. A paradox that cannot be reasoned by the carnal mind for it is Spiritually discerned.
Jesus on the cross took upon Himself the sins of the world. Jesus became the perfect sacrifice for our sins because He had no sin. Jesus bowed His head and gave up the ghost. He did not bow His head after He gave up the ghost but before. Jesus commanded His Spirit to leave His body that the penalty of sin might be paid.
Now you may continue your spurious accusations for they only reveal you do not know the truth in Gods word because you have not the capacity to understand. You have not thought this through.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Jesus on the cross took upon Himself the sins of the world. Jesus became the perfect sacrifice for our sins because He had no sin. Jesus bowed His head and gave up the ghost. He did not bow His head after He gave up the ghost but before. Jesus commanded His Spirit to leave His body that the penalty of sin might be paid.
Now you may continue your spurious accusations for they only reveal you do not know the truth in Gods word because you have not the capacity to understand. You have not thought this through.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I doubt the validity of your information. Scripture never teaches that Mary was sinless. Indeed Mary saw her Son as her Savior. It is only the traditions of Rome that endeavor to elevate Mary to the status of demi-god.
If you will not accept scripture then there is no basis upon which we can reason together.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If you will not accept scripture then there is no basis upon which we can reason together.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I guess the whole "RESERECTION" doesn't count? Yes Jesus died for ALL of our sins, and yes Mary too died. There is one BIG difference, Jesus didn't STAY dead and now lives for EVER and EVER. Pretty big difference no? Did Mary rise 3 days after her death, presenting herself to people and showing that she too concord death and was another way? If not I wouldn't hold them as equals. I feel Mary was a very special woman in the fact she birthed our savior, but that's it. Should we love her? Absolutely, she gave birth to our Savior and I am thankful God brought that to pass, and not only that but she was a fellow believer so we should love her because of that as well. the fact remains she was the same as us and to pray to her is no different then praying to a dead relative, it's completely pointless when we can talk strait to Him. This is just my view on this subject and I am not suggesting anyone should or has to share my view, but your point that Jesus died too, holds no water.
Thanks for letting me share, and May God bless all of you and your whole familys.
Thanks for letting me share, and May God bless all of you and your whole familys.
But you are unable to answer my questions. You cannot validate the post reformist invention. You have not stated your definition of grace as accepted by most "Bible-Christians", a definition that supports Mary's sinlessness (another avoidance). I have to do it for you. It's not doubt, it's blindness.
Not explicitly, but scripture is not explicit on the number of books in the New Testament, given to us by the Church you despise.
I don't dispute this. Rejoicing in her savior is a declaration of her salvation. What is disputed is when this occurred. If you look at Luke 1:46-55, admission of sin does not make sense. It does not fit the verses.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And Mary said:“My soul magnifies the Lord,
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant;
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]For He who is mighty has done great things for me,
And holy is His name.
[SUP]50 [/SUP]And His mercy is on those who fear Him
From generation to generation.
[SUP]51 [/SUP]He has shown strength with His arm;
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
[SUP]52 [/SUP]He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
And exalted the lowly.
[SUP]53 [/SUP]He has filled the hungry with good things,
And the rich He has sent away empty.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]He has helped His servant Israel,
In remembrance of His mercy,
[SUP]55 [/SUP]As He spoke to our fathers,
To Abraham and to his seed forever.”
[SUP]56 [/SUP]And Mary remained with her about three months, and returned to her house.
(2 Sam. 6:11 and 1 Chron. 13:14 - Mary / the Ark remained in the house for about three months, but I digress)
So, we know that scripture says that Mary was saved, but when?
Luke 1:28 [SUP] [/SUP]And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”
Does the angel say "...the Lord IS with you..." or does the angel say "POOF!, the Lord is now with you"??? Remember, she had not yet Conceived. Do you think she accepted Jesus as her personal savior in the synagogue before He was born???
It is only the traditions of Rome that endeavor to elevate Mary to the status of demi-god.
If you will not accept scripture then there is no basis upon which we can reason together.
I accept scripture, I don't accept deified opinions and absolute literalism, I don't accept hate speech "for the cause of Christ" so it's not me that cannot be reasoned with.
Not explicitly, but scripture is not explicit on the number of books in the New Testament, given to us by the Church you despise.
I don't dispute this. Rejoicing in her savior is a declaration of her salvation. What is disputed is when this occurred. If you look at Luke 1:46-55, admission of sin does not make sense. It does not fit the verses.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And Mary said:“My soul magnifies the Lord,
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant;
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]For He who is mighty has done great things for me,
And holy is His name.
[SUP]50 [/SUP]And His mercy is on those who fear Him
From generation to generation.
[SUP]51 [/SUP]He has shown strength with His arm;
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
[SUP]52 [/SUP]He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
And exalted the lowly.
[SUP]53 [/SUP]He has filled the hungry with good things,
And the rich He has sent away empty.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]He has helped His servant Israel,
In remembrance of His mercy,
[SUP]55 [/SUP]As He spoke to our fathers,
To Abraham and to his seed forever.”
[SUP]56 [/SUP]And Mary remained with her about three months, and returned to her house.
(2 Sam. 6:11 and 1 Chron. 13:14 - Mary / the Ark remained in the house for about three months, but I digress)
So, we know that scripture says that Mary was saved, but when?
Luke 1:28 [SUP] [/SUP]And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”
Does the angel say "...the Lord IS with you..." or does the angel say "POOF!, the Lord is now with you"??? Remember, she had not yet Conceived. Do you think she accepted Jesus as her personal savior in the synagogue before He was born???
It is only the traditions of Rome that endeavor to elevate Mary to the status of demi-god.If you will not accept scripture then there is no basis upon which we can reason together.
Please enlighten me to the definition of grace that declares Mary to be sinless. Who are these "bible Christians" to which you refer?
Not explicitly? so you must add to scripture to get to where you want to be? Sorry but it is not possible to love a church that is not church. Church is not and organization but an organism.
None of these verses leads one to believe that Mary was sinless. Mary believed that her Son was the Messiah and Mary saw her Son the sacrifice for the sins of the world. Mary could not receive the Holy Spirit until He was given after the resurrection of Christ. That is to say she was saved when the rest of the apostles and disciples were saved after the resurrection when Christ breathed upon them the Holy Spirit. John 20:22
What other kind of literalism is there other than absolute? Scripture says that Job eschewed evil. Eschewed is to hate. We are to hate the things Gods hates. We shall see if you accept scripture. The conflict for you will be when your traditions conflict with scripture and which you will prefer.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
ROGER'S HERESY
^ You said it for all to see. That is your public testimony. Backtrack and squirm now all you like, Roger.
You're a heretic, Roger. Denying the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
You deny His own testimony! Heretic!
Jesus said, “The Son of Man must suffer greatly
and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests, and the scribes,
and be killed and on the third day be raised.”
- Lk 9:22
And as Paul says
"It will be reckoned to us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was handed over to death for our trespasses and was raised for our justification."
- Rom 4:24-25
Don't put words in my mouth. Yours is the weakest form of argument.
And learn to spell.
Then you too disagree with Roger's heresy. Yet you come to his defense. This place is comical.
^ You said it for all to see. That is your public testimony. Backtrack and squirm now all you like, Roger.
You're a heretic, Roger. Denying the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
You deny His own testimony! Heretic!
Jesus said, “The Son of Man must suffer greatly
and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests, and the scribes,
and be killed and on the third day be raised.”
- Lk 9:22
And as Paul says
"It will be reckoned to us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was handed over to death for our trespasses and was raised for our justification."
- Rom 4:24-25
Don't put words in my mouth. Yours is the weakest form of argument.
And learn to spell.
Then you too disagree with Roger's heresy. Yet you come to his defense. This place is comical.
Re: ROGER'S HERESY
I understood Roger to be saying that Jesus' spirit was not taken from him,
that death did not have power over him, as with all men,
but that he gave it up by his own power, all of which is true,
and also that he misunderstands all death is simply the separation of the spirit from the body,
which Jesus effected himself.
I understood Roger to be saying that Jesus' spirit was not taken from him,
that death did not have power over him, as with all men,
but that he gave it up by his own power, all of which is true,
and also that he misunderstands all death is simply the separation of the spirit from the body,
which Jesus effected himself.
Re: ROGER'S HERESY
Ellin. (Jimbone too)
Read my post that started all of this.
I said.. That was followed by Roger saying "Jesus did not die".
He implied that what I said was not 'biblical', which is utterly ridiculous, as usual. You know how Roger argues, Ellin, squirming around his errors in order cover his ignorance and patronize another. I've seen you run around and around in circles with him as he does this. Quit defending him.
Ellin. (Jimbone too)
Read my post that started all of this.
I said.. That was followed by Roger saying "Jesus did not die".
He implied that what I said was not 'biblical', which is utterly ridiculous, as usual. You know how Roger argues, Ellin, squirming around his errors in order cover his ignorance and patronize another. I've seen you run around and around in circles with him as he does this. Quit defending him.
Re: ROGER'S HERESY
First, on exactly what authority do you command me to "Quit defending him"?
Second, I was only responding to your words, not defending his at all, so you can aim your "attack mode" at someone else, if you don't like my comment or question that's fine, but you telling us what to do with commands is entertaining to say the least. You come with pure venom and I feel a strait up condescending hatred in you post, why do you get so angry at questions? I wasn't trying to jump into a fight or "choose sides", I just don't think what you where saying was consistent at ALL. But you win I bow out, just spitting close minded venom back and forth doesn't serve either side well, may "JESUS" guide your path.
First, on exactly what authority do you command me to "Quit defending him"?
Second, I was only responding to your words, not defending his at all, so you can aim your "attack mode" at someone else, if you don't like my comment or question that's fine, but you telling us what to do with commands is entertaining to say the least. You come with pure venom and I feel a strait up condescending hatred in you post, why do you get so angry at questions? I wasn't trying to jump into a fight or "choose sides", I just don't think what you where saying was consistent at ALL. But you win I bow out, just spitting close minded venom back and forth doesn't serve either side well, may "JESUS" guide your path.