It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
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Jesus saith to him, He that is bathed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit:"
The Lord Jesus has appointed that we shall endure. Once saved, you abide saved. The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable.
" I chose you, and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should abide:" (John 15). Souls won (fruit) abide!
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.[/QUOTE]
Romans 11 does not contradict itself. The gentiles as a whole are addressed above with a singular THOU. Believers in Christ are not
"cut off." The Lord does change large groups that He deals with for blessing. The Church is predominately gentile and Israel is on the sideline today. But times can change.
Typically, those who cannot bring themselves to actually trust Christ as Savior and would prevent others from so doing, camp out on verses where neither "save" nor "salvation" occur.
< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Anyone reading this who has dismissed the Lord Jesus as a mere chance-giver, is urged to trust Him as only & sufficient Savior now.
The Lord Jesus has appointed that we shall endure. Once saved, you abide saved. The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable.
" I chose you, and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should abide:" (John 15). Souls won (fruit) abide!
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.[/QUOTE]
Romans 11 does not contradict itself. The gentiles as a whole are addressed above with a singular THOU. Believers in Christ are not
"cut off." The Lord does change large groups that He deals with for blessing. The Church is predominately gentile and Israel is on the sideline today. But times can change.
Typically, those who cannot bring themselves to actually trust Christ as Savior and would prevent others from so doing, camp out on verses where neither "save" nor "salvation" occur.
< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Anyone reading this who has dismissed the Lord Jesus as a mere chance-giver, is urged to trust Him as only & sufficient Savior now.
Instead of digressing off topic, focus on the wonderful promises of God to the one who believes, who become children of God, who receive eternal life (not temporary with a chance).
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance
incorruptible, and
undefiled, and
that does not fade away,
reserved in heaven for you, who
by the power of God are guarded
through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because
thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you,
Who will also do it.
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present,
nor things to come,
nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance
incorruptible, and
undefiled, and
that does not fade away,
reserved in heaven for you, who
by the power of God are guarded
through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because
thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you,
Who will also do it.
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present,
nor things to come,
nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
M
Is it heracy to believe in it it almost made me kill my self and 3 people did at my old church because of it. Thank god I am at a true bible based church that denies it 
Assurance of Salvation? | Catholic Answers
Assurance of Salvation? | Catholic Answers
J
Forgive the interruption of a good bicker. But sometimes this thread that survives on bottled oxygen (let the reader understand) needs a little fodder for rebalancing, even though nagging questions could arise over the compelling case giant letters puts forth.
Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
1 John 1:6-7 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Galatians 5:16-23 This I say then, walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Okay. Tally-ho and back to, "We don't need no stinking context!"
Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
1 John 1:6-7 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Galatians 5:16-23 This I say then, walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Okay. Tally-ho and back to, "We don't need no stinking context!"
Will the Old Canards Every Stop Repeating?
Philippians:
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Probably every canard posted against trusting Christ as Savior & trying to demote Him to chance-giver, has already been posted here over & over. But here we go again (groan):
Notice that in Heb 6:4-6 (stop quitting at vs 6!) there is no mention of salvation; as is so typical, the chance-only people emphasize verses off topic.
The general rule is that you just keep reading a little further in such passages:
keep reading 7-9: For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God: but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak:"
The factors in 6:4-8 do not rise to the level of salvation. These are professors who apostatize. As 1 John 2 tells us, if they apostasize they prove they were never "of us," never part of the Body of Christ, ever saved."
This is a major passage teaching eternal security, since the promise is "I will NOT blot out his name!" The overcomer is, as 1 John tells us, the believer! The believer is the overcomer who has the promise of eternal security!
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father…
1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And
who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.
As 1 Pet tells us, the inheritance is incorruptible, undefiled, reserved for those who guarded by God!
Note again, salvation is not mentioned nor is it the topic. Salvation is about a loving Savior, paying for our sins, saving believers from our wretched state of sinfulness, making believers children of God with the gift of eternal life. Rev 2:5 is written to a local church (Ephesus). Churches fail all the time. Local churches are not given the gift of eternal life; believers are.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another. And the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
The passage says nothing about receiving the gift of eternal life. It says nothing about a man getting saved. The topic is fellowship, not salvation. As with the illustration with Peter using water, he who is cleanses is completely clean, except his feet do need cleansing from time to time. The topic doesn't say that the blood cleanses only those who walk in the light either. And beware of the logical fallacy called
"Denying the Antecedent."
Given: If John had a car, John would have transportation.
Fallacy: John has no car, therefore John has no transportation.
The passage has nothing to do with salvation. In every Christian the Holy Spirit dwells. The Spirit has desires (lusts) for goodness. In every Christian the flesh also is around, the Old Man, ever expressing his evil opinion, ever lusting for evil. The Christian may follow the lusts of the Spirit or of the Flesh (be carnal). Salvation is not mentioned (typical canard).
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Context: "So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure."
The context stinketh not. The Outworking of salvation is based upon God working in the believer. Works follow salvation, but cause it not.
And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— 4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus:
8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.
So Dear Reader-unbeliever, what will it be? Will you keep on dismissing the Savior as a mere chance-giver, or will you trust the Savior?
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.
Philippians:
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Probably every canard posted against trusting Christ as Savior & trying to demote Him to chance-giver, has already been posted here over & over. But here we go again (groan):
Notice that in Heb 6:4-6 (stop quitting at vs 6!) there is no mention of salvation; as is so typical, the chance-only people emphasize verses off topic.
The general rule is that you just keep reading a little further in such passages:
keep reading 7-9: For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God: but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak:"
The factors in 6:4-8 do not rise to the level of salvation. These are professors who apostatize. As 1 John 2 tells us, if they apostasize they prove they were never "of us," never part of the Body of Christ, ever saved."
This is a major passage teaching eternal security, since the promise is "I will NOT blot out his name!" The overcomer is, as 1 John tells us, the believer! The believer is the overcomer who has the promise of eternal security!
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father…
1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And
who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.
As 1 Pet tells us, the inheritance is incorruptible, undefiled, reserved for those who guarded by God!
Note again, salvation is not mentioned nor is it the topic. Salvation is about a loving Savior, paying for our sins, saving believers from our wretched state of sinfulness, making believers children of God with the gift of eternal life. Rev 2:5 is written to a local church (Ephesus). Churches fail all the time. Local churches are not given the gift of eternal life; believers are.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another. And the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
The passage says nothing about receiving the gift of eternal life. It says nothing about a man getting saved. The topic is fellowship, not salvation. As with the illustration with Peter using water, he who is cleanses is completely clean, except his feet do need cleansing from time to time. The topic doesn't say that the blood cleanses only those who walk in the light either. And beware of the logical fallacy called
"Denying the Antecedent."
Given: If John had a car, John would have transportation.
Fallacy: John has no car, therefore John has no transportation.
The passage has nothing to do with salvation. In every Christian the Holy Spirit dwells. The Spirit has desires (lusts) for goodness. In every Christian the flesh also is around, the Old Man, ever expressing his evil opinion, ever lusting for evil. The Christian may follow the lusts of the Spirit or of the Flesh (be carnal). Salvation is not mentioned (typical canard).
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Context: "So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure."
The context stinketh not. The Outworking of salvation is based upon God working in the believer. Works follow salvation, but cause it not.
And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— 4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus:
8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.
So Dear Reader-unbeliever, what will it be? Will you keep on dismissing the Savior as a mere chance-giver, or will you trust the Savior?
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.
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Let's sing it:
The blood that gives me strength from day to day;
It shall never lose its power!
the color of sin in the Bible is Red (Though your sins be as scarlet, etc.).
Do an experiment.
Write SIN on a white piece of paper.
Then put on red glasses (you might use old 3D movie glasses with the Red side (the read glasses must be the same shade as the word SIN on the paper.
Put on the glasses & look at SIN, but SIN will Now have disappeared; all you will see is a white piece of paper!
We can conceive of the 10 commandments in the ark being defiled by man's sin. But the Lord in the Shekinah Glory peers down at the 10 commandments through the blood sprinkled on the Mercy Seat (lid of the Ark).
The precious blood of the Lord Jesus.
The blood that gives me strength from day to day;
It shall never lose its power!
the color of sin in the Bible is Red (Though your sins be as scarlet, etc.).
Do an experiment.
Write SIN on a white piece of paper.
Then put on red glasses (you might use old 3D movie glasses with the Red side (the read glasses must be the same shade as the word SIN on the paper.
Put on the glasses & look at SIN, but SIN will Now have disappeared; all you will see is a white piece of paper!
We can conceive of the 10 commandments in the ark being defiled by man's sin. But the Lord in the Shekinah Glory peers down at the 10 commandments through the blood sprinkled on the Mercy Seat (lid of the Ark).
The precious blood of the Lord Jesus.
The (in)famous passage in Hebrews 6 is explained in 6:9, though those who wish to deny that the Lord Jesus is Savior (dismissing Him as mere chance-giver) end it with 6:6.
"But, beloved, we are persuaded
better things of you, and things that accompany salvation,
though we thus speak.
That statement implies 2 things:
1) the professing-Christian-type characteristics listed fall short of salvation; they do not imply salvation.
2) The "beloved" addressed are not defined by the characteristics of the apostates just listed. Thus the attack on apostates, is not an attack on the beloved. It is a compliment, for it asserts
the better for the beloved. They are beloved, & they are not the apostates.
"But, beloved, we are persuaded
better things of you, and things that accompany salvation,
though we thus speak.
That statement implies 2 things:
1) the professing-Christian-type characteristics listed fall short of salvation; they do not imply salvation.
2) The "beloved" addressed are not defined by the characteristics of the apostates just listed. Thus the attack on apostates, is not an attack on the beloved. It is a compliment, for it asserts
the better for the beloved. They are beloved, & they are not the apostates.
Last edited:
ROMANS 8, ETERNAL SECURITY
Romans 8 Eternal Security
Τhere is, therefore, now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus set me free from the law of sin and of death. . . .
As following context indicates, this is an absolute statement: "no condemnation" for anyone in Christ. (Believers are all in the Church, the Body of Christ -- no amputation or mutilation of Christ's body is going to happen. Those who come to Him are never cast out). The following context indicates that there is no one who can condemn when God declares a man righteous, justified.
you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him . . .
A Christian may temporarily be "according to the flesh" or "after the flesh," in a temporary state of carnality as believers were at Corinth and as Paul was in Romans 7. But Christians are not condemned to anything, not to carnality & not to the Lake of Fire. A Christian is ever "in the Spirit" and ever indwelt by the Spirit. IN the Spirit is different from ACCORDING TO the Spirit. A believer can grieve the Spirit though he is sealed by the Spirit Who never leaves Him
And we know that all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
For those whom He
foreknew, He also
predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also
called; and these whom He called, He also
justified; and these whom He justified, He also
glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
The believer is promised, God will freely give the believer ALL THINGS. They are not earned by good works!
Now God is no liar. If a believer ended up somehow in the Lake of Fire, that would violate the promise to be given freely all things.
Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns?
Anyone who thinks he can bring a successful charge vs believers, should think again. God declares righteous; so such a condemner can quote this or that verse (off topic of salvation) and try to condemn believers on this or that grounds, why what if they deny & walk away from God? Forget your what-ifs. There are none successful vs God's elect. God declares righteous. Who are you who condemn? Like myself, you are nothing in this regard!
Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? . . .
But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that
neither death, nor life,
nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers,
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing,
will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So persistent heretic, give it up. You will never separate me nor any other believer from that special love of God in Christ Jesus.
The Lord declares us righteous. Not you, not satan, not anything present or to come will separate us from that love, nor from
freely-given-all-things!
Jesus my Lord will love me forever,
From Him no power of evil can severe;
He gave His life to ransom my soul;
Now I belong to HIm.
Now I belong to Jesus,
Jesus belongs to me;
Not for the years of time alone,
But for eternity.
All who are not trusting Christ, dismissing the Savior, claiming He is merely a chance-giver, are urged today to repent of this distrust, and trust Him as your only & sufficient Savior.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
Romans 8 Eternal Security
Τhere is, therefore, now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus set me free from the law of sin and of death. . . .
As following context indicates, this is an absolute statement: "no condemnation" for anyone in Christ. (Believers are all in the Church, the Body of Christ -- no amputation or mutilation of Christ's body is going to happen. Those who come to Him are never cast out). The following context indicates that there is no one who can condemn when God declares a man righteous, justified.
you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him . . .
A Christian may temporarily be "according to the flesh" or "after the flesh," in a temporary state of carnality as believers were at Corinth and as Paul was in Romans 7. But Christians are not condemned to anything, not to carnality & not to the Lake of Fire. A Christian is ever "in the Spirit" and ever indwelt by the Spirit. IN the Spirit is different from ACCORDING TO the Spirit. A believer can grieve the Spirit though he is sealed by the Spirit Who never leaves Him
And we know that all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
For those whom He
foreknew, He also
predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also
called; and these whom He called, He also
justified; and these whom He justified, He also
glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
The believer is promised, God will freely give the believer ALL THINGS. They are not earned by good works!
Now God is no liar. If a believer ended up somehow in the Lake of Fire, that would violate the promise to be given freely all things.
Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns?
Anyone who thinks he can bring a successful charge vs believers, should think again. God declares righteous; so such a condemner can quote this or that verse (off topic of salvation) and try to condemn believers on this or that grounds, why what if they deny & walk away from God? Forget your what-ifs. There are none successful vs God's elect. God declares righteous. Who are you who condemn? Like myself, you are nothing in this regard!
Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? . . .
But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that
neither death, nor life,
nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers,
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing,
will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So persistent heretic, give it up. You will never separate me nor any other believer from that special love of God in Christ Jesus.
The Lord declares us righteous. Not you, not satan, not anything present or to come will separate us from that love, nor from
freely-given-all-things!
Jesus my Lord will love me forever,
From Him no power of evil can severe;
He gave His life to ransom my soul;
Now I belong to HIm.
Now I belong to Jesus,
Jesus belongs to me;
Not for the years of time alone,
But for eternity.
All who are not trusting Christ, dismissing the Savior, claiming He is merely a chance-giver, are urged today to repent of this distrust, and trust Him as your only & sufficient Savior.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
Last edited:
There is therefore now NO condemnation:
Sing it!
No condemnation now I dread;
Jesus, and all in Him, is mine!
Alive in Him, my living Head,
And clothed in righteousness divine,
Bold I approach th’eternal throne,
And claim the crown, through Christ, my own.
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
Sing it!
No condemnation now I dread;
Jesus, and all in Him, is mine!
Alive in Him, my living Head,
And clothed in righteousness divine,
Bold I approach th’eternal throne,
And claim the crown, through Christ, my own.
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
Re: ROMANS 8, ETERNAL SECURITY
what does it mean to be in Christ..?......well Jesus himself put it this way...
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
so we look at the meaning of abide...
accept or act in accordance with (a rule, decision, or recommendation).
"I said I would abide by their decision"
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]comply with, obey, observe, follow, keep to, hold to, conform to, adhere to, stick to, stand by, act in accordance with, uphold, heed, accept, go along with, acknowledge, respect, defer to "he expected everybody to abide by the rules"
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
So Atwood to be in Christ one must abide in him.....and those who don't abide ..vs 6....and please don't say they were not saved.....they were branches...vs 5
what does it mean to be in Christ..?......well Jesus himself put it this way...
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
so we look at the meaning of abide...
accept or act in accordance with (a rule, decision, or recommendation).
"I said I would abide by their decision"
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]comply with, obey, observe, follow, keep to, hold to, conform to, adhere to, stick to, stand by, act in accordance with, uphold, heed, accept, go along with, acknowledge, respect, defer to "he expected everybody to abide by the rules"
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
So Atwood to be in Christ one must abide in him.....and those who don't abide ..vs 6....and please don't say they were not saved.....they were branches...vs 5
Abiding in Christ is Fellowship, not Salvation
Someone just quoted from John 15:4-10 as it it meant there was condemnation in Christ Jesus, though scripture says the contrary. In those verses salvation does not occur. Salvation is about the Savior saving wretched sinners who trust in Him & get help, to wit: a transformation & eternal life.
[SUP]"4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."
One must stay in fellowship with the Lord Jesus to bring forth fruit. Fruit includes souls won to the Lord. And John 15 says that fruit abides; that is, it endures.
The passage is an allegory. Doctrine is established by propositional passages. Eternal Security is established by such passages as "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish." Then the allegory is to be understood in that light.
[SUP]" [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
This is allegorical for chastisement, which is something only secure believers in Christ get.
[SUP]"7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
A believer does not enjoy feeling the love of God when out of fellowship, though God does not withdraw the love nor stop it. However, it is clear in scripture that the special love in Christ Jesus which God has for Christians is inseparable from the Christian. Romans 8. Nothing present nor to come can separate believers from the love of God in Christ Jesus.
Then it was claimed:
That is not a definition of the Greek word menō abide. English usage of "abide" is irrelevant. Menō means stay or remain. Note the cognate -main in English to the men- in Greek.
We must remain in fellowship with the Lord Jesus to bear fruit.
This has nothing to do with the salvation which brings the transformation & eternal life.
If you want to know about salvation, study the passages that use the word.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
Someone just quoted from John 15:4-10 as it it meant there was condemnation in Christ Jesus, though scripture says the contrary. In those verses salvation does not occur. Salvation is about the Savior saving wretched sinners who trust in Him & get help, to wit: a transformation & eternal life.
[SUP]"4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."
One must stay in fellowship with the Lord Jesus to bring forth fruit. Fruit includes souls won to the Lord. And John 15 says that fruit abides; that is, it endures.
The passage is an allegory. Doctrine is established by propositional passages. Eternal Security is established by such passages as "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish." Then the allegory is to be understood in that light.
[SUP]" [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
This is allegorical for chastisement, which is something only secure believers in Christ get.
[SUP]"7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
A believer does not enjoy feeling the love of God when out of fellowship, though God does not withdraw the love nor stop it. However, it is clear in scripture that the special love in Christ Jesus which God has for Christians is inseparable from the Christian. Romans 8. Nothing present nor to come can separate believers from the love of God in Christ Jesus.
Then it was claimed:
That is not a definition of the Greek word menō abide. English usage of "abide" is irrelevant. Menō means stay or remain. Note the cognate -main in English to the men- in Greek.
We must remain in fellowship with the Lord Jesus to bear fruit.
This has nothing to do with the salvation which brings the transformation & eternal life.
If you want to know about salvation, study the passages that use the word.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
Re: Fruit Remains; Tutti Frutti, Oh Rutti !
After digressing off topic, let's get back on subject: Eternal Security:
Τhere is, therefore, now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus set me free from the law of sin and of death. . . .
As following context indicates, this is an absolute statement: "no condemnation" for anyone in Christ. (Believers are all in the Church, the Body of Christ -- no amputation or mutilation of Christ's body is going to happen. Those who come to Him are never cast out). The following context indicates that there is no one who can condemn when God declares a man righteous, justified.
you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him . . .
A Christian may temporarily be "according to the flesh" or "after the flesh," in a temporary state of carnality as believers were at Corinth and as Paul was in Romans 7. But Christians are not condemned to anything, not to carnality & not to the Lake of Fire. A Christian is ever "in the Spirit" and ever indwelt by the Spirit. IN the Spirit is different from ACCORDING TO the Spirit. A believer can grieve the Spirit though he is sealed by the Spirit Who never leaves Him
And we know that all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
For those whom He
foreknew, He also
predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also
called; and these whom He called, He also
justified; and these whom He justified, He also
glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
God indeed is for the believer, the heretics on this site cannot stop God & His work on our behalf. God is for us, puny heretics may be against, but so what?
After digressing off topic, let's get back on subject: Eternal Security:
Τhere is, therefore, now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus set me free from the law of sin and of death. . . .
As following context indicates, this is an absolute statement: "no condemnation" for anyone in Christ. (Believers are all in the Church, the Body of Christ -- no amputation or mutilation of Christ's body is going to happen. Those who come to Him are never cast out). The following context indicates that there is no one who can condemn when God declares a man righteous, justified.
you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him . . .
A Christian may temporarily be "according to the flesh" or "after the flesh," in a temporary state of carnality as believers were at Corinth and as Paul was in Romans 7. But Christians are not condemned to anything, not to carnality & not to the Lake of Fire. A Christian is ever "in the Spirit" and ever indwelt by the Spirit. IN the Spirit is different from ACCORDING TO the Spirit. A believer can grieve the Spirit though he is sealed by the Spirit Who never leaves Him
And we know that all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
For those whom He
foreknew, He also
predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also
called; and these whom He called, He also
justified; and these whom He justified, He also
glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
God indeed is for the believer, the heretics on this site cannot stop God & His work on our behalf. God is for us, puny heretics may be against, but so what?
Re: Abiding in Christ is Fellowship, not Salvation
Atwood is saying abiding(stay or remain )in Christ has nothing to do with salvation which means if you don't abide in Him you are still saved.......scripture says ...redemption is in Christ...
Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
scripture says salvation is in Christ...
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Atwood is saying abiding(stay or remain )in Christ has nothing to do with salvation which means if you don't abide in Him you are still saved.......scripture says ...redemption is in Christ...
Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
scripture says salvation is in Christ...
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.