Secret Rapture

[kentappel]

I know a lot of people believe that there will be a pre tribulation rapture of the church. For the moment, let's set aside when this event will happen, pre trib., mid trib. or post trib. or even if there is a rapture at all. For this thread please limit it to whether this event is secret or not where people left behind when the church would be taken up don't know what happened.

Can people who believe it is a secret event where no one left behind will know what happened as portrayed in several popular movies and also that has been taught from the pulpit by some pastors please give us some Bible passages that show specifically it is a secret event?


Again, this topic is about it being a secret event where people just, 'poof' disappear and it is not about the timing of such an event. I have been hunting for information that supports the secret rapture but I have yet to find anything on it.

 

[prove-all]

I don't believe there is a secret rapture or visible one,

before Christ returns, so says youre bible.

 

[Elin]

I know a lot of people believe that there will be a pre tribulation rapture of the church. For the moment, let's set aside when this event will happen, pre trib., mid trib. or post trib. or even if there is a rapture at all. For this thread please limit it to whether this event is secret or not where people left behind when the church would be taken up don't know what happened.

Can people who believe it is a secret event where no one left behind will know what happened as portrayed in several popular movies and also that has been taught from the pulpit by some pastors please give us some Bible passages that show specifically it is a secret event?


Again, this topic is about it being a secret event where people just, 'poof' disappear and
it is not about the timing of such an event. I have been hunting for information that supports the secret rapture but I have yet to find anything on it.

There is nothing in the Scriptures about a secret rapture.

But we have a not-so-secret rapture.

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven
with a loud command,
with the voice of the archangel,
with the trumpet call of God," (1Th 4:16)

There is going to be plenty to see and hear.

 

[Elin]

I don't believe there is a secret rapture or visible one,

before Christ returns, so says youre bible.

Not mine. . .

 

[Ukorin]

The Resurrection is ONCE for Believers, and ONCE for unbelievers.
The 1st to everlasting life,
The 2nd to eternal death.

After the Resurrection/rapture, there is no more opportunity for salvation, only judgement. The Bridegroom has come, and the doors are closed. No post rapture revivals are possible.

Basicly, it will be very obvious.

 

[prove-all]

people use the word rapture, it is not in the bible.

now after Christ starts his return with a trump

then are we resurected when everyone sees.

we believe the same thing,

you call it a rapture, i call it a resurecation,

so says my bible

Not mine. . .

 

[kentappel]

The Resurrection is ONCE for Believers, and ONCE for unbelievers.
The 1st to everlasting life,
The 2nd to eternal death.

After the Resurrection/rapture, there is no more opportunity for salvation, only judgement. The Bridegroom has come, and the doors are closed. No post rapture revivals are possible.



Basicly, it will be very obvious.

Personally, I believe that the rapture and the second coming of Christ are the same event and that there is no chance for salvation at that point. Do you believe in a pre trib. rapture and that there is no chance for salvation during the tribulation? It sounds though from your post that you don't believe in a pre trib. rapture.

 

[Elin]

people use the word rapture, it is not in the bible

"Rapture" is the English translation. . .of the Latin translation. . .of the Greek harpazo.
"Rapture" is in the Bible in the Greek.

now after Christ starts his return with a trump

then are we resurected when everyone sees.

"and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that, we who are still alive and are left
will be caught up together (harpazo) with them in the clouds
to meet the Lord in the air." (1Th 4:17)

"the coming of the Lord
and our being gathered (episunagoge) to him" (2Th 2:1)

What do you call the "meeting the Lord in the air?"

we believe the same thing,

you call it a rapture, i call it a resurecation,

so says my bible

In my Bible, the resurrection and catching up together (harpazo)
to meet the Lord in the air are two separate events in conjunction with each other.

 

[kentappel]

There is nothing in the Scriptures about a secret rapture.

But we have a not-so-secret rapture.

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven
with a loud command,
with the voice of the archangel,
with the trumpet call of God," (1Th 4:16)

There is going to be plenty to see and hear.

Agreed, I was just trying to see if anybody would quote some passages that support a secret rapture that seems so popular in movies such as the Left Behind series. I have yet to find anybody give any thing with any substance that would support such an event. After all, some people repeat it as if it were fact. I saw a thread on this subject here on Christian Chat that I haven't read yet maybe someone supported it there.

 

[prove-all]

Not mine. . .

i said there is no rapture visible or secret (before) christ returns.

that is youre argument ?

show me a verse that says there is a rapture (before) Christ.

now when he starts his (return), we meet in the clouds.

this is called the resurrection or if you want rapture,

which i never said anything about in my first post.

I have not said anything not in the bible,

and do not want to argue with fellow brothers in Christ.

 

[Elin]

i said there is no rapture visible or secret (before) christ returns.

that is youre argument ?

Oh, by no means. We are in agreement.

When Christ descends from heaven in his return, we will rise to meet him in the air, to descend with him
for the end of time events.

show me a verse that says there is a rapture (before) Christ.

now when he starts his (return), we meet in the clouds.

this is called the resurrection or if you want rapture,

Actually our coming out of our graves with transformed bodies
is not the rapture.

The rapture is rising to meet him in the air after that.

We are on the same page, my brother.

 

[prove-all]

my problem is i dont see the word rapture in my english bible.

and so many people believe a pre Christ rapture, i dont like using that word.


yes youre right after the trumphet blast, dead will rise,

and then those still here changed, and meet the Lord in the air.

when i read be change and meet in the air, rapture dont click in my brain because the word is not there.

but i know there was not one before Christ calls.



now not sure if there be any time between these two things.

i allways treated this as one event, because it happens in the same trumphet blast.

so sorry if i"m being a pain.

 

[Sec]

The rapture was created by Francisco Ribera, in 1590, sort of, and it lay on the shelf, until john Darby wrote about it in 1827, Darby translated the Bible, but it was not picked up and placed in mainline theology until it appeared in Schofield's reference Bible in 1909, which is the Bible I use, but I am not as easily conned as Schofield was.
Let me illustrate the current rapture theology.
The grandparents, who are saved Christians, are taking their grandchildren, ages 6, 9, and 12, to the beach for the day. They are on the Interstate doing 65 MPH.
The rapture takes place. Their grandchildren’s parents are not saved.

The grandparents in the front seat disappear.

The car, with the cruise control set at 65 MPH continues on it’s way, with no driver.
The grandchildren in the back seat are watching a DVD. They don’t even realize that their grandparents are gone.
They become victims of the rapture.

You can have the rapture, it is a false and failed theology, My God does not operate that way.
You are free to set you mind on cruise and venture forth through life looking for an event that will never happen, but I prefer reality, which is what I teach, just as Jesus did. The kingdom of God is at hand, it is all around you, but you don't see it.

<><===><>
Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God

 

[Ukorin]

Personally, I believe that the rapture and the second coming of Christ are the same event and that there is no chance for salvation at that point. Do you believe in a pre trib. rapture and that there is no chance for salvation during the tribulation? It sounds though from your post that you don't believe in a pre trib. rapture.

Most people call the 70th week of Daniel "the Tribulation". This is a mislabeling.
The Tribulation is the 1st 3.5 years of the 70th week. Wrath is the 2nd 3.5 years.
So with that understood, I am post-trib, pre-wrath. This is also artificially labelled as "mid-trib" by many.
I also hold that the Marriage Supper of the Lamb occurs post-wrath, and as the inauguration of the Millenial Kingdom.

I am not fully opposed to post-wrath view, but only if the proponent supports that God will divinely protect the Church during the Wrath.

 

[lisa79]

If some who knows about it, told you about it, it wouldnt be a secret. Do you think the trumpet plays a sound that everyone can hear? or that only those who have ears that hear can hear? (A frequency similar to a dog whistle.?)

 

[Ukorin]

If some who knows about it, told you about it, it wouldnt be a secret. Do you think the trumpet plays a sound that everyone can hear? or that only those who have ears that hear can hear? (A frequency similar to a dog whistle.?)

It says that all men will hear, and unbelievers will cry out in mourning.

 

[Lynx]

If memory serves, there's something in the Bible about the second coming of Jesus being as lightning flashing from east to west... that covers the whole sky, everyone can see it.

The whole secret rapture thing isn't the only fallacy in those movies. They're chock full of stuff that doesn't agree with the Bible. But... it's probably not profitable to dissect what is wrong. Much better to just hold tight to what is right.

 

[konroh]

There seems to be a contrast with "the Lord shall come from heaven and meet us in the clouds" 1 Thess. 4 and "every eye shall see Him, they also which pierced Him," Rev. 1:8.

While the Lord's 2nd coming is definitely not a secret, the text of 1 Thess. 4 doesn't point to universality, only to the inclusion of all Christians.

 

[Lynx]

Scripture does not trump scripture. If two verses seem to disagree we must figure out how we misunderstood one - or even both - of them.

Protip: Pulling scripture out of context is a great way to get the meaning wrong. One can get anything that way, including "Mary had a little lamb."

 

[Ukorin]

There seems to be a contrast with "the Lord shall come from heaven and meet us in the clouds" 1 Thess. 4 and "every eye shall see Him, they also which pierced Him," Rev. 1:8.

While the Lord's 2nd coming is definitely not a secret, the text of 1 Thess. 4 doesn't point to universality, only to the inclusion of all Christians.

1 Thess 4 doesn't support secret rapture, nor does it seem to describe a seperate event:
16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.