Jesus turned water into unfermented wine and not fermented wine.
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Now the story of Balaam in the Book of Numbers is considered by many was as being a false prophet:
20 And God came unto Balaam at night, and said unto him, If the men come to call thee, rise up, and go with them; but yet the word which I shall say unto thee, that shalt thou do.
21 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab.
22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.
23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.
Numbers 22:20-23
Yet, consider the following:
1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
Genesis 22:1-3
20 And God came unto Balaam at night, and said unto him, If the men come to call thee, rise up, and go with them; but yet the word which I shall say unto thee, that shalt thou do.
21 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab.
22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.
23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.
Numbers 22:20-23
Yet, consider the following:
1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
Genesis 22:1-3
This perspective of the earth make the bottom of Africa look like the head
of a donkey on the [L] and Antarctica on the [R] as the angel of the LORD.
of a donkey on the [L] and Antarctica on the [R] as the angel of the LORD.
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Your idea that somehow spiritually matrue christians dont drink is laughable at best. The whole concept of alcohol on this forum is laughable. I'd bet 9 out of 10 of those against it are either from baptist or pentecostals churches, maybe other evangelical churches. And if you want to be against, then thats cool, good for you. Enjoy your life. But when people start saying their personal convictions towards alcohol is the only right conviction, thats when the switch in my head goes...lol nope.
And back to the weaker brother, do you mkae sure no one around is convicted by the holy spirit of not eating meat before you chomp down into a juicy burger?
And back to the weaker brother, do you mkae sure no one around is convicted by the holy spirit of not eating meat before you chomp down into a juicy burger?
J
Unfortunately, this.
I've had family members with alcohol problems as well as smoking (not all that have both though, but the drinking is more common). Thankfully not as bad as it used to be for some, I'm not so sure for others since I haven't been in contact with them.
Alcohol can contribute to weight gain (known as the munchies for when one consumes too much and then wants to eat) which can lead to obesity if they take in way too much. It's at least one contributing factor even if it may not be the most common (haven't looked at statistics to know this), but in the end it makes sense as to how it can be linked. It doesn't mean all who have alcohol intake are like this, but it does come down to how much one takes and if it starts to consume their life, of course. Obsessive drinking can be linked to mental illnesses such as depression and bipolar disorder.
I've had family members with alcohol problems as well as smoking (not all that have both though, but the drinking is more common). Thankfully not as bad as it used to be for some, I'm not so sure for others since I haven't been in contact with them.
Alcohol can contribute to weight gain (known as the munchies for when one consumes too much and then wants to eat) which can lead to obesity if they take in way too much. It's at least one contributing factor even if it may not be the most common (haven't looked at statistics to know this), but in the end it makes sense as to how it can be linked. It doesn't mean all who have alcohol intake are like this, but it does come down to how much one takes and if it starts to consume their life, of course. Obsessive drinking can be linked to mental illnesses such as depression and bipolar disorder.
T
If we are going down this road, help the illogical ones understand your belief by answering the following:
How many beers should a Christian drink in specified amount of time or setting.
When should a Christian stop drinking a beer? when they feel like they are getting a bit tipsy?
Should a Christian get drunk in his /her home if nobody is around?
If a Christian has 1-2 drinks every night is this an issue?
Should a Christian go to establishments like bars to drink, where far more sin abound such as fornication, drug use? greed, jealousy, etc?
Should a Christian be purchasing alcohol at a liquor store, knowing that you are furthering a business that caters to people who are addicted to alcohol. Are your dollars promoting a brother to stumble? Is your money helping or hindering anything, by spending it in a liquor store?
How many beers should a Christian drink in specified amount of time or setting.
When should a Christian stop drinking a beer? when they feel like they are getting a bit tipsy?
Should a Christian get drunk in his /her home if nobody is around?
If a Christian has 1-2 drinks every night is this an issue?
Should a Christian go to establishments like bars to drink, where far more sin abound such as fornication, drug use? greed, jealousy, etc?
Should a Christian be purchasing alcohol at a liquor store, knowing that you are furthering a business that caters to people who are addicted to alcohol. Are your dollars promoting a brother to stumble? Is your money helping or hindering anything, by spending it in a liquor store?
L
As with all things, a Christian must do things in moderation. Moderation is found by behaving in a way that is not harmful to your life, to others, and does not lead to an addiction. I can have a burger once in a while, it becomes a problem when I have one every day. I can have a candy bar but if I had 2-3 a day, that'd be a problem. Moderation is not about set numbers and rules, it is about being a mature, responsible adult that manages his life successfully.
And fried chicken places and fast food is a good place to spend your money? They don't hurt people? Again, personal responsibility.
And fried chicken places and fast food is a good place to spend your money? They don't hurt people? Again, personal responsibility.
I dont count working a 12+ hour shift then coming home and having a beer as not moderation. A beer. Because sometimes after being in a hot workplace on your feet all day its relaxing to come home sit on the couch and sip. Now if I came home and drank a six pack every night? then sure you might have a point. But one beer, please, don't make me laugh.
lol,,Yes "back then!",,see I was born in the cowboy days(almost,lol) and I can remember things like the first "weed eater"(scared me at first) but now days it don't occur to ask "how did we do that back then?" Just simple things like what all can be canned in a hot water bath,verses the things that have to be canned in a pressure cooker @5-15 p.s.i. and for how long ect.
In those days where would they keep a deer,sheep,cow ect. after they slaughtered it is the reasoning as to why they only butchered them at events(after the party they took the leftovers and divided them),,then what couldn't eat in a day or so was going to spoil(no refrigerator,pressure cookers ect.)
This is why Jesus said what he did about new wine and old skins(Matt.9;17,,mark 2;22) that is it would burst the old skins when it fermented. If they made just made "grape juice",and left it for two or three days they would get sick if they drank it(it would spoil in the heat/sun) so if they crossed a desert they had to have either fermented drinks or water that was clean,bacteria free ect. so fermented wine(germ free liquid) had a nutritional value(grapes) and would hydrate their bodies.
In those days where would they keep a deer,sheep,cow ect. after they slaughtered it is the reasoning as to why they only butchered them at events(after the party they took the leftovers and divided them),,then what couldn't eat in a day or so was going to spoil(no refrigerator,pressure cookers ect.)
This is why Jesus said what he did about new wine and old skins(Matt.9;17,,mark 2;22) that is it would burst the old skins when it fermented. If they made just made "grape juice",and left it for two or three days they would get sick if they drank it(it would spoil in the heat/sun) so if they crossed a desert they had to have either fermented drinks or water that was clean,bacteria free ect. so fermented wine(germ free liquid) had a nutritional value(grapes) and would hydrate their bodies.
This is one of the major problems I had with Noah the movie. Noah actually drinks a beverage like drug that makes him have a vision from God. This is taken from a form of practice in many other false religions. A drug is any substance that alters the mind. This would include alcohol. While I believe that nothing can entering the body can truly defile a man, I also believe that many believers abuse their liberty in Christ and make their good as evil spoken thereof.
Or how does it relate to this verse?
1 Corinthians 13:4 KJ2000
"Love suffers long, and is kind; love envies not; love vaunts not itself, is not puffed up,"
1 Corinthians 13:4 KJ2000
"Love suffers long, and is kind; love envies not; love vaunts not itself, is not puffed up,"