Jesus Christ is not your Lord

[shrimp]

How can you be born again and be inherently sinful, that is just being apologetic to those who preach some false doctrine.
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

I am not sure I will stumble and fall ( maybe but not sure)

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I used we as a general term, referring to Humans as a whole.

 

[newbirth]

Matthew 7:21 - "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

John 6:40 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Did these many people in Matthew 7:22 believe in Him? NO. In verse 23, Jesus said - I NEVER knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. What did these many people believe in? What were they trusting in for salvation? - "have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" Answer - THEIR WORKS.

works without faith and faith without works have the same result and you keep pointing at the two extremes these had works and no faith these on the other had faith but no works...
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
and please don't say they were unsaved, because Christ expects nothing from the unsaved.

 

[newbirth]

I used we as a general term, referring to Humans as a whole.

Fair enough...

 

[VCO]

Yes we are inherently sinful, but Jesus afforded the opportunity, to all, to follow His law. Through the grace of GOD we can look at His law and say "I can do it, because Christ did and it would make Him happy if I did do it. Through Christ I can!" Whereas while under the bondage of sin, we looked at it ( and some still do) with despair and sadness.

Sure, we'll stumble and fall, but that's when we look to Jesus and repent and try again. He holds our hands through it all.

Okay, I had better go into more than the sins of Commission.

How about the Sins of Omission:

James 4:17 (NKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

If you have the world's goods and do not sell them to meet a brother's need, it is sin.

If you tithe but omit giving to the missionary fund, it is sin.

If you someone sues you but you omit to give him your coat too, it is sin.

Matthew 5:40 (HCSB)
[SUP]40 [/SUP] As for the one who wants to sue you and take away your shirt, let him have your coat as well.

And what about all of these sins of omission:

Matthew 25:41-46 (HCSB)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] Then He will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!
[SUP]42 [/SUP] For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink;
[SUP]43 [/SUP] I was a stranger and you didn’t take Me in; I was naked and you didn’t clothe Me, sick and in prison and you didn’t take care of Me.’
[SUP]44 [/SUP] “Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?’
[SUP]45 [/SUP] “Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.’
[SUP]46 [/SUP] “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

NO, as long as we have sin in us, we will never be sinless. HOWEVER, as a Christian matures spiritually, he or she will sin less, and less, and less; as Dr. John MacArthur one said.

Many Churches used to have a statement like this in their Doctrinal Statement of Faith. How is it in this Lukewarm age of Laodiceanism, we seldom see or hear any mention of the utter depravity of man any more.

We believe that man was created in the image and likeness of God, but that in Adam’s sin the human race fell, inherited a sinful nature, and became alienated from God; and that man is utterly sinful, and therefore unable to remedy his lost condition.
(Gen. 1:26-27; Ro. 3:22-23; 5:12; 6:23; Eph. 2:1-3; 4:17-19).

And here is another verse that this modern age of easy believism, almost never mentions:

James 2:10 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

 

[VCO]

Walking in the light of God, doing the truth and being in fellowship with Christ his blood cleanses us from all sin. So a mortal man can be sinless, not by his own power but by the blood of Christ. That is why we cannot boast. The word of God shows us how to do it. If it were not so then God would have failed to save us from sin.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
-----------------------------------

[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
[SUP]6[/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

[SUP]7[/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Still you are describing the DIRECTION of our Christian walk, not the Perfection of it.

 

[mailmandan]

works without faith and faith without works have the same result and you keep pointing at the two extremes these had works and no faith these on the other had faith but no works...

Works without faith are not genuine good works. A bad tree cannot produce good fruit. Faith without works is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith, as we see in James 2:14 - claims to have faith but has no works.

[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

The good deeds mentioned in Matthew 25 are the fruit that will be manifest in the lives of the righteous. Notice verse 37 begins, "Then shall the righteous answer" (emphasis added). Those who are placed at Christ's right hand are not there because of/based on their good deeds, but because Christ imputed His righteousness to them. Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. When works are mentioned in connection with salvation, the works are always the fruit of, not the means of, salvation. The stress is on works as a manifestation of one's faith, or lack thereof, as we see with the goats. Without faith it's impossible to please God, so these goats are in the same boat as these many people in Matthew 7:21 who work iniquity.

[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
and please don't say they were unsaved, because Christ expects nothing from the unsaved.

Where did Jesus say these goats were saved and He expected something from them? Their lack of fruit is a manifestation of their lack of faith. Only the righteous (sheep) are saved. You are reading the Bible through the lens of works salvation.

 

[newbirth]

Still you are describing the DIRECTION of our Christian walk, not the Perfection of it.

If God says...13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid ...
What part of that is imperfect? God saved us from sin, Gave us power to become a son of God, Gave us power over sin, Gave us access to the blood to cleanse ourselves from sin. Are we not to walk perfect before him.

NO, as long as we have sin in us, we will never be sinless. HOWEVER, as a Christian matures spiritually, he or she will sin less, and less, and less; as Dr. John MacArthur one said.

The scripture does not say sin less ,it says don't sin. If we follow God's instructions we have no problems...[SUP]7[/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

We believe that man was created in the image and likeness of God, but that in Adam’s sin the human race fell, inherited a sinful nature, and became alienated from God; and that man is utterly sinful, and therefore unable to remedy his lost condition.
(Gen. 1:26-27; Ro. 3:22-23; 5:12; 6:23; Eph. 2:1-3; 4:17-19).

God fixed that bro, you are living in the past. Faith comes by hearing
[SUP]18 [/SUP]So then, as through one trespass there is condemnation for everyone, so also through one righteous act there is life-giving justification[SUP][f][/SUP] for everyone. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For just as through one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so also through the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. [SUP]20 [/SUP]The law came along to multiply the trespass. But where sin multiplied, grace multiplied even more [SUP]21 [/SUP]so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace will reign through righteousness, resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[SUP]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


12 [/SUP]Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, in this way death spread to all men, because all sinned.[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]13 [/SUP]In fact, sin was in the world before the law, but sin is not charged to a person’s account when there is no law. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin in the likeness of Adam’s transgression.He is a prototype[SUP][d][/SUP] of the Coming One.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the gift is not like the trespass. For if by the one man’s trespass the many died, how much more have the grace of God and the gift overflowed to the many by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And the gift is not like the one man’s sin, because from one sin came the judgment, resulting in condemnation, but from many trespasses came the gift, resulting in justification.[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]17 [/SUP]Since by the one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive the overflow of grace and the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

 

[newbirth]

Works without faith are not genuine good works. A bad tree cannot produce good fruit. Faith without works is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith, as we see in James 2:14 - claims to have faith but has no works.

The good deeds mentioned in Matthew 25 are the fruit that will be manifest in the lives of the righteous. Notice verse 37 begins, "Then shall the righteous answer" (emphasis added). Those who are placed at Christ's right hand are not there because of/based on their good deeds, but because Christ imputed His righteousness to them. Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works. When works are mentioned in connection with salvation, the works are always the fruit of, not the means of, salvation. The stress is on works as a manifestation of one's faith, or lack thereof, as we see with the goats. Without faith it's impossible to please God, so these goats are in the same boat as these many people in Matthew 7:21 who work iniquity.

So Christ was lying to them ...he told them ...[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.....

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

but anyway you put it, it still boils down to this...
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. So my brother whether you call it a good fruit or a good work if you don't bring it forth, your faith is dead and you are doomed.

Where did Jesus say these goats were saved and He expected something from them? Their lack of fruit is a manifestation of their lack of faith. Only the righteous (sheep) are saved. You are reading the Bible through the lens of works salvation.

you don't see the picture they had no fruit/works ,he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: he separates those who did from those who did not do. He never said they had no faith. They thought faith without works was the way to go they were wrong.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]For we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Abraham believed God and did everything God wanted outside of the law. Jesus freed us from the law and wants us to do all that God wants without the law. Just like Abraham. God told him to get up and leave his home and he did not know where he was going but he did. God said sacrifice your only son and in his heart it was done no questions asked ...that is faith...not just sitting around saying I believe I believe I believe.

Noah built the ark because he believed God he never questioned God he toiled and prepared it as requested by God. He did not sit around saying I believe I believe I believe.
You believe....Have you left your Home?
You believe......Have you sacrifice your begotten self?
You believe......Are you preparing your ark for God?

 

[VCO]

If God says...13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid ...
What part of that is imperfect? God saved us from sin, Gave us power to become a son of God, Gave us power over sin, Gave us access to the blood to cleanse ourselves from sin. Are we not to walk perfect before him.

The scripture does not say sin less ,it says don't sin. If we follow God's instructions we have no problems...[SUP]7[/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

God fixed that bro, you are living in the past. Faith comes by hearing
[SUP]18 [/SUP]So then, as through one trespass there is condemnation for everyone, so also through one righteous act there is life-giving justification[SUP][f][/SUP] for everyone. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For just as through one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so also through the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. [SUP]20 [/SUP]The law came along to multiply the trespass. But where sin multiplied, grace multiplied even more [SUP]21 [/SUP]so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace will reign through righteousness, resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[SUP]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


12 [/SUP]Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, in this way death spread to all men, because all sinned.[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]13 [/SUP]In fact, sin was in the world before the law, but sin is not charged to a person’s account when there is no law. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin in the likeness of Adam’s transgression.He is a prototype[SUP][d][/SUP] of the Coming One.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the gift is not like the trespass. For if by the one man’s trespass the many died, how much more have the grace of God and the gift overflowed to the many by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And the gift is not like the one man’s sin, because from one sin came the judgment, resulting in condemnation, but from many trespasses came the gift, resulting in justification.[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]17 [/SUP]Since by the one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive the overflow of grace and the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

And when we fail, a real Christian's (already has been saved past tense) life is characterized by willingly confessing it as sin, and getting back up and continuing the walk of striving to walk in obediance.

 

[VCO]

We hear of men believing in Christ, believing in God, trusting and having great faith in Christ and God. We constantly hear the phrase" Jesus is Lord!". Sure the scriptures is clear,
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
What do we mean by LORD
lord

noun \ˈlȯrd\


Definition of LORD

1
: one having power and authority over others:
a : a ruler by hereditary right or preeminence to whom service and obedience are due




To the one who does not give Jesus power and authority over their life, he is not their Lord.
To the one who does not give Jesus the service and obedience due , he is not their Lord.
If you confess Jesus Christ as Lord, he becomes your master if you disobey him you are a liar and therefore he is not your Lord.
Romans 10

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

While some falsely teach "believe is the only command you must obey to be saved" the word of God is clear, believing Jesus and him becoming the Lord of your life is the way to salvation.
Those who teach otherwise deny the Lordship of Jesus if Jesus is not your Lord you cannot be saved.
Matthew 10:32-34
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

At least you seem to have a good handle on the necessity of submitting to Lordship, and the connection of that submission to Salvation.

Yes that easy believism of acknowledging only in your head that stories about Jesus are true, and who he is, is a false gospel. And if you think about it, even the demons believe that much.

 

[mailmandan]

[SUP]28 [/SUP]For we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Do you limit works of the law merely to specific works under the law like circumcision and then detach good works in general from the law? Paul said that we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). He also said that it's not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. (Titus 3:5). He also said that He called us and saved us, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Amen! This is true for BELIEVERS.

Abraham believed God and did everything God wanted outside of the law.

Abraham believed God and it (faith, not works) was accounted to Him for righteousness (Genesis 15:6).

Jesus freed us from the law and wants us to do all that God wants without the law. Just like Abraham.

Because we are saved, not to become saved.

God told him to get up and leave his home and he did not know where he was going but he did.

But when was Abraham's faith accounted to him for righteousness? Not until Genesis 15:6, when God brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be" (vs. 5). And Abraham BELIEVED God and it was accounted to him for righteousness (vs. 6).

God said sacrifice your only son and in his heart it was done no questions asked ...that is faith...not just sitting around saying I believe I believe I believe.

That was a demonstration of his faith, not the origin of it. In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. No! The accounting of Abraham's faith for righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. If Abraham would have refused to sacrifice his son, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith.

Noah built the ark because he believed God he never questioned God he toiled and prepared it as requested by God. He did not sit around saying I believe I believe I believe.

Who said anything about sitting around saying I believe and never doing anything? All the work in the world apart from faith is futile to save. As I previously explained, Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it.

You believe....Have you left your Home?

God has not asked me to leave my home. Was Abraham's faith accounted to him for righteousness when he left his home, or when he believed God?

You believe......Have you sacrifice your begotten self?

My begotten self? God did not ask me to sacrifice my son.

You believe......Are you preparing your ark for God?

God did not ask me to prepare an ark. Through faith, I have entered into the ark of salvation, Christ.

 

[newbirth]

Do you limit works of the law merely to specific works under the law like circumcision and then detach good works in general from the law? Paul said that we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). He also said that it's not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. (Titus 3:5). He also said that He called us and saved us, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

what you don't seem to understand is, there is no way man could have fellowship with God unless he is righteous. So by grace through faith God makes us righteous...the big question is, are we made forever righteous? The scripture teaches that we are cleansed from our past sins and given the power to overcome sin, so we should sin no more. Through the same faith by which we were made righteous, we now live unto righteousness. Which means the faith we have will continue to make us righteous before God as long as our works are righteous( faith without works is dead). If our works are not righteous then we are found liars and our faith does not correspond to our works....If we have no works we are worthless .
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

 

[VCO]

Do you limit works of the law merely to specific works under the law like circumcision and then detach good works in general from the law? Paul said that we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). He also said that it's not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. (Titus 3:5). He also said that He called us and saved us, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.



Amen! This is true for BELIEVERS.



Abraham believed God and it (faith, not works) was accounted to Him for righteousness (Genesis 15:6).



Because we are saved, not to become saved.



But when was Abraham's faith accounted to him for righteousness? Not until Genesis 15:6, when God brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be" (vs. 5). And Abraham BELIEVED God and it was accounted to him for righteousness (vs. 6).



That was a demonstration of his faith, not the origin of it. In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. No! The accounting of Abraham's faith for righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. If Abraham would have refused to sacrifice his son, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith.



Who said anything about sitting around saying I believe and never doing anything? All the work in the world apart from faith is futile to save. As I previously explained, Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it.



God has not asked me to leave my home. Was Abraham's faith accounted to him for righteousness when he left his home, or when he believed God?



My begotten self? God did not ask me to sacrifice my son.



God did not ask me to prepare an ark. Through faith, I have entered into the ark of salvation, Christ.

The LOVE for GOD that manifests itself in the form of willing obedience, was poured into out hearts by God the Holy Spirit, when we were born again:

Romans 5:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

 

[VCO]

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

That eternal life began the moment we surrendered to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and would not be called ETERNAL if you could lose it:

John 3:36 (HCSB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (ESV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 6:47 (ESV)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

John 6:54 (ESV)
[SUP]54 [/SUP] Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

1 John 3:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.

 

[mailmandan]

what you don't seem to understand is, there is no way man could have fellowship with God unless he is righteous. So by grace through faith God makes us righteous...the big question is, are we made forever righteous?

Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

The scripture teaches that we are cleansed from our past sins and given the power to overcome sin, so we should sin no more.

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Through the same faith by which we were made righteous, we now live unto righteousness. Which means the faith we have will continue to make us righteous before God as long as our works are righteous (faith without works is dead).

Salvation is neither attained or maintained by works. From beginning (Ephesians 2:8) to end (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is through FAITH. Works of righteousness flow from faith and are the fruit. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of our salvation. No fruit would demonstrate no root. "Faith without works is dead" does not mean that works are the source of life in our faith. Faith that produces no works demonstrates that it's dead. Claims to have faith but has no works (James 2:14) is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith. A dead faith does not produce works in order to become a living faith, but BECAUSE it's a living faith; just as a dead tree does not produce fruit in order to become a living tree, but BECAUSE it's a living tree.

If our works are not righteous then we are found liars and our faith does not correspond to our works....If we have no works we are worthless.

The lack of genuine good works demonstrates that we don't have genuine faith. If we say we have faith, but have no works, we demonstrate that we have a bare profession of faith, not genuine saving faith that is alive in Christ (Ephesians 2:5-10).

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

There is a contrast here between servants. We are either servants of sin unto death (lost-unbelievers) or else we are servants of obedience unto righteousness (saved-believers). Don't leave out "servants of obedience" unto righteousness. Paul is not teaching that with works of obedience after faith finally make us righteous. When do we become servants of obedience unto righteousness? The moment that we have been saved through faith. "I tell you the solemn truth, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin." (John 8:34). 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Paul goes on in Rom 6:18 "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."

Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Do you believe that you are sinless and perfect? 1 John 3:7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

 

[newbirth]

That eternal life began the moment we surrendered to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and would not be called ETERNAL if you could lose it:

John 3:36 (HCSB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (ESV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 6:47 (ESV)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

John 6:54 (ESV)
[SUP]54 [/SUP] Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

1 John 3:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.

you have quoted all these scripture and still don't understand .....Through faith in the sacrifice of Christ we have become righteous and perfect in the eyes of God that is why eternal life is in us.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

 

[newbirth]

Do you believe that you are sinless and perfect? 1 John 3:7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

If I don't believe I am sinless and perfect before God by Jesus sacrifice then my faith is in vain. If my past sins are forgiven and I have an advocate if I sin . Plus if I walk in his light, he is faithful and just to forgive all my sins. Walking in his light is practising righteousness and holiness...which I must practice every second if my life. Will these not be the works of faith being manifested by my actions?

 

[VCO]

If God says...13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid ...
What part of that is imperfect? God saved us from sin, Gave us power to become a son of God, Gave us power over sin, Gave us access to the blood to cleanse ourselves from sin. Are we not to walk perfect before him.

The scripture does not say sin less ,it says don't sin. If we follow God's instructions we have no problems...[SUP]7[/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

God fixed that bro, you are living in the past. Faith comes by hearing
[SUP]18 [/SUP]So then, as through one trespass there is condemnation for everyone, so also through one righteous act there is life-giving justification[SUP][f][/SUP] for everyone. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For just as through one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so also through the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. [SUP]20 [/SUP]The law came along to multiply the trespass. But where sin multiplied, grace multiplied even more [SUP]21 [/SUP]so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace will reign through righteousness, resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[SUP]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


12 [/SUP]Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, in this way death spread to all men, because all sinned.[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]13 [/SUP]In fact, sin was in the world before the law, but sin is not charged to a person’s account when there is no law. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin in the likeness of Adam’s transgression.He is a prototype[SUP][d][/SUP] of the Coming One.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the gift is not like the trespass. For if by the one man’s trespass the many died, how much more have the grace of God and the gift overflowed to the many by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And the gift is not like the one man’s sin, because from one sin came the judgment, resulting in condemnation, but from many trespasses came the gift, resulting in justification.[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]17 [/SUP]Since by the one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive the overflow of grace and the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

If we are walking in the light, I think you and I can agree that implies that we are walking in obedience to HIM. Therefore that would include being obedient to confessing sin and repenting of it, when we do sin.

1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That word "confess" is in the Greek perfect tense, that is the fourth primary verb tense that we do not have in English. We only have the Past Tense, Present Tense, and Future Tense, in our primary verb tenses. The perfect tense is the one that implies a continuous lifestyle of doing that verb. Since we know we do NOT continually confess the same old sins over and over again, because HE cleansed us from them; that verse is implying it is new sins that we just discovered or stumbling into that we are as a lifestyle continually confessing. YES, right after we confess sins, GOD sees us as sinless, until the NEXT ONE, which instantly makes us GUILTY of breaking all of the Law all over again. Even the word "keep" in 1 John 2:3 is in that Greek perfect tense, implying a continuous lifestyle of "striving to keep".

James 2:10 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Thankfully as we mature spiritually, we stumble into sin less and less often. But it sure does pop up occasionally in every Christian's life, because we still are stuck with a sin nature, because of Adam's sin. When will we be rid of that sin nature for good?

1 Corinthians 15:51-57 (NKJV)
[SUP]51 [/SUP] Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
[SUP]52 [/SUP] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[SUP]53 [/SUP] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[SUP]54 [/SUP] So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
[SUP]55 [/SUP] "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?"
[SUP]56 [/SUP] The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
[SUP]57 [/SUP] But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Not until then, will we be permanently sinless.

 

[newbirth]

If we are walking in the light, I think you and I can agree that implies that we are walking in obedience to HIM. Therefore that would include being obedient to confessing sin and repenting of it, when we do sin.

not 'when' that denotes you have intention...IF we sin...

1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That word "confess" is in the Greek perfect tense, that is the fourth primary verb tense that we do not have in English. We only have the Past Tense, Present Tense, and Future Tense, in our primary verb tenses. The perfect tense is the one that implies a continuous lifestyle of doing that verb. Since we know we do NOT continually confess the same old sins over and over again, because HE cleansed us from them; that verse is implying it is new sins that we just discovered or stumbling into that we are as a lifestyle continually confessing. YES, right after we confess sins, GOD sees us as sinless, until the NEXT ONE, which instantly makes us GUILTY of breaking all of the Law all over again. Even the word "keep" in 1 John 2:3 is in that Greek perfect tense, implying a continuous lifestyle of "striving to keep"

.

So what was the purpose of Christ death if not the sacrifice for our sins, God no longer see us as guilty all judgement is left up to Christ. Else we would not be able to go before the throne of grace.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But when Christ[SUP][b][/SUP] had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
As long as we are in fellowship with Christ,God sees us as perfect. He never said sin less He said don't sin. He will not tell us to do something we can't do and he is out advocate if we do sin.
What law are you talking about? we are not under the law we are under grace.
If we are walking after the spirit we cannot be condemned...If we walk after the flesh we grieve the holy Spirit and put Christ to open shame. So while you are sinning less you are in danger of getting a reprobate mind.

James 2:10 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

[SUP]
12 [/SUP]So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Thankfully as we mature spiritually, we stumble into sin less and less often. But it sure does pop up occasionally in every Christian's life, because we still are stuck with a sin nature, because of Adam's sin. When will we be rid of that sin nature for good?

Got news for you ...we don't have it anymore
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

1 Corinthians 15:51-57 (NKJV)
[SUP]51 [/SUP] Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
[SUP]52 [/SUP] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[SUP]53 [/SUP] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[SUP]54 [/SUP] So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
[SUP]55 [/SUP] "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?"
[SUP]56 [/SUP] The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
[SUP]57 [/SUP] But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Not until then, will we be permanently sinless

.

why do you keep bringing up Adam's nature....are we not freed from sin.Do we not have power over sin. Do we not have the nature of Christ.

 

[VCO]

why do you keep bringing up Adam's nature....are we not freed from sin.Do we not have power over sin. Do we not have the nature of Christ.

The sin nature is in the flesh NOT in the spirit.

Romans 7:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

Romans 7:25 (NASB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:3-5 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.

That sinful nature is still present, even when we are filled with the Spirit, (totally surrendering control to the Holy Spirit as GOD). Hanging on to that "filled with the Spirit" is a daily struggle.

I am not found of the God's Word translation, as it has too much modern simplified English, but look how they translated Rom. 8:3:

Romans 8:3 (GW)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] It is impossible to do what God's standards demand because of the weakness our human nature has. But God sent his Son to have a human nature as sinners have and to pay for sin. That way God condemned sin in our corrupt nature.


Matthew 26:41 (ASV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. <G772>

1 Corinthians 15:42 (ASV)
[SUP]42 [/SUP] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness<G769 from G772>, it is raised in power;

I do not think that Greek word [FONT=Gentium !important]astheneia[/FONT] <G769 from G772> that is translated weakness or corruption, solely refers to the body decaying, I think that also refers to the corrupt sin nature that is our weakness that we inherited from Adam. The Root word that [FONT=Gentium !important]astheneia[/FONT] comes from is <G772>[FONT=Gentium !important]asthenês[/FONT], the very word that JESUS used to refer to the weakness of the human sinful nature.

1 Corinthians 15:53 (ASV)
[SUP]53 [/SUP] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Cor. 15:39-44
15:39-42a

As there are vastly different bodies and forms in God’s created universe which are suited for all kinds of existence, so God can design a body perfect for resurrection life.
15:42b-44 Focusing directly on the resurrection body, Paul gives four sets of contrasts to show how the new body will differ from the present one (cf. v. 54; Phil. 3:20, 21): (1) no more sickness and death (“corruption”); (2) no more shame because of sin (“dishonor”); (3) no more frailty in temptation (“weakness”); and (4) no more limits to the time/space sphere (“natural”).

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

Romans 8:3 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,

THUS, I do not see a sinless Christian in this mortal body. Spiritually YES, we have the mind of Christ, physically, NO, we have a sin nature in the flesh. We desperately need our glorified resurrected body to be rid of our sinful nature that we inherited from Adam's sin of rebellion. Eve was deceived, but Adam's sin was an act of rebellion against GOD's authority to rule over him.