It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Re: ES Is Attested to By Bible & Ancient "Church Fathers"

You have already stated that you do not believe in the same Savior as scripture describes. [false]
You do not believe that Christ is actually the Savior of the world. That He saved mankind from the bondage to death and sin so that man and God could unite in a covenantal relationship freely, and attain eternal life.

So, what Savior could you possibly believe in when it is not the one of scripture? I believe in the one of scripture.
Note that as unusual, you just pontificate without any proof. What is your proof that all mankind is not in bondage to death & sin? Let's see proof or a retraction. Have you read Romans 1-3?

The Lord Jesus is Savior, not chance-giver. Scripture has a Savior of His people, not a chance-giver of His people.

Cassian, I have asked you a number of times if you are in fact a universalist. I never saw an answer. Are you afraid to answer?

What you seem to be saying is that Christ is no Savior, but a chance-giver "so that man could . . . attain eternal life." Or are you a universalist?

I believe in the SAvior, not in the imaginary "chance giver." My Savior saves HIS PEOPLE from their sins. He does not regenerate all men; he only regenerates believers. Whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life, and does not come into condemnation, but has passed from death to life.

He paid the price for all men's sins; but only believers receive eternal life.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

If you have written Him off as "chance-giver," repent & trust Him as Savior.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
It Is Nonsense to Claim that Christ Has Saved All Men from Bondage to Sin

Men are in bondage to sin. Only believers (His people) are saved from bondage to sin.

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins."

As to men in general, Rom 1-3 describes them well:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.. . .

that they may be without excuse: because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, . . .



Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.


For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: . . .


And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
being filled with all
unrighteousness,
wickedness,
covetousness,
maliciousness;
full of envy,
murder,
strife,
deceit,
malignity;
whisperers,
backbiters,
hateful to God,
insolent,
haughty,
boastful,
inventors of evil things,
disobedient to parents,
without understanding,
covenant-breakers,
without natural affection,
unmerciful:

who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.



Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things. And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things. And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; . . .

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law; . . .


thou therefore that teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou rob temples? thou who gloriest in the law, through thy transgression of the law dishonorest thou God? . . .

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
as it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one:

Their throat is an open sepulchre;
With their tongues they have used deceit:
The poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace have they not known:

There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Prophet Peter Proclaimed Eternal Security

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto
a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to
an inheritance

incorruptible,
and

undefiled
, and

that fades not away
,


reserved in heaven for you
, who

by the power of God are guarded


through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
7
0
Re: ES Is Attested to By Bible &amp; Ancient &quot;Church Fathers&quot;

Note that as unusual, you just pontificate without any proof. What is your proof that all mankind is not in bondage to death & sin? Let's see proof or a retraction. Have you read Romans 1-3?

The Lord Jesus is Savior, not chance-giver. Scripture has a Savior of His people, not a chance-giver of His people.

Cassian, I have asked you a number of times if you are in fact a universalist. I never saw an answer. Are you afraid to answer?

What you seem to be saying is that Christ is no Savior, but a chance-giver "so that man could . . . attain eternal life." Or are you a universalist?

I believe in the SAvior, not in the imaginary "chance giver." My Savior saves HIS PEOPLE from their sins. He does not regenerate all men; he only regenerates believers. Whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life, and does not come into condemnation, but has passed from death to life.

He paid the price for all men's sins; but only believers receive eternal life.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

If you have written Him off as "chance-giver," repent & trust Him as Savior.
I cannot help you to understand. You seem to have great difficulty in this respect. I have explained the Incarnation to you at least twice fully and completely, with several partial explanations throughout this post. I have also answered your question regarding Universalism. What good would another explanation benefit you who cannot understand it if I gave it again.

Most of your difficulty lies in your massive reconstruction of scripture to support an errant teaching of OSAS/ES. You have denied so much of it that it has become unrecognizable when someone else presents what scripture has always meant without the false man made suppositions.
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
7
0
Re: It Is Nonsense to Claim that Christ Has Saved All Men from Bondage to Sin

Men are in bondage to sin. Only believers (His people) are saved from bondage to sin.

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins."

As to men in general, Rom 1-3 describes them well:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.. . .

that they may be without excuse: because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, . . .



Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.


For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: . . .


And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
being filled with all
unrighteousness,
wickedness,
covetousness,
maliciousness;
full of envy,
murder,
strife,
deceit,
malignity;
whisperers,
backbiters,
hateful to God,
insolent,
haughty,
boastful,
inventors of evil things,
disobedient to parents,
without understanding,
covenant-breakers,
without natural affection,
unmerciful:

who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.



Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things. And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things. And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; . . .

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law; . . .


thou therefore that teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou rob temples? thou who gloriest in the law, through thy transgression of the law dishonorest thou God? . . .

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
as it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one:

Their throat is an open sepulchre;
With their tongues they have used deceit:
The poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace have they not known:

There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
Your theology is so vacuous that you don't even understand that everything you cited and stated confirms that
Christ has freed mankind from the bondage to death, thus to sin which is why sin has become everyone's responsibility and each will give an account because of that freedom.
You deny the salvific content of the Incarnation thus deny the effect of His Incarnation and resurrection. If Christ had not come, sin would be irrelevant to man. It would be meaningless because we all have already been condemned to death.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Re: It Is Nonsense to Claim that Christ Has Saved All Men from Bondage to Sin

Your theology is so vacuous that . . . [Sola Cassiana]
Hurling mud won't prove your point Cassian. Put up or shut up. Post your proof for your assertions or retract.

The below is not vacuous:

being filled with all
unrighteousness,
wickedness,
covetousness,
maliciousness;
full of envy,
murder,
strife,
deceit,
malignity;
whisperers,
backbiters,
hateful to God,
insolent,
haughty,
boastful,
inventors of evil things,
disobedient to parents,
without understanding,
covenant-breakers,
without natural affection,
unmerciful:


Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man,
thou therefore that teachest another, teache

There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one:

Their throat is an open sepulchre;
With their tongues they have used deceit:
The poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace have they not known:

There is no fear of God before their eyes.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Mankind Has Not Been Freed from Death

As Genesis 5 drones on, "And he died . . . And he died . . . And he died . . . "

The serpent said, "You shall not surely die."

The Word of God teaches:

It is appointed to man once to die,
but after that the judgment.

Some one digresses on his theory as to how Christ has saved everyone from bondage to death -- how ridiculous -- of course without Bible proof, as usual for that fellow.

For we are a sweet savor of Christ unto God, in them that are saved, and in them that perish; to the one a savor from death unto death; to the other a savor from life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as the many, corrupting the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God, speak we in Christ.

The unsaved are dead in trespasses & sins.

And you, being dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, you, I say, did he make alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses; having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross; having despoiled the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Re: ES Is Attested to By Bible &amp; Ancient &quot;Church Fathers&quot;

I have explained the Incarnation to you at least twice fully and completely, with several partial explanations throughout this post.
You have run on saying things. Post your proof or retract.

I have also answered your question regarding Universalism.
Why do you refuse to affirm or deny it? Are you afraid?

Most of your difficulty lies in your massive reconstruction of scripture
Your difficulty is expressed by not quoting the Bible & not proving anything, but somehow supposed you should be believed for pontification. Once in a while you have referred to passage without quoting them or showing that they support your theory.

Put up or shut up, Cassian. Prove it or retract.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Will You Shuck &amp; Jive to Avoid Eternal Security?

I realize it is an affront to the pride of man to believe in Eternal Security. Pride would rather find validation by works, instead of realizing that in depravity man must trust the Lord Jesus & God's grace for eternlty.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Let go of dismissing the Savior as a mere chance-giver; trust the Savior today.

Instant Salvation to Eternal Security Can Be Yours Right Now!

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)

There is a clear dichotomy: You either have or have not the Son of God with eternal life. The change must be instantaneous. Eternal life is a present possession for the believer, not just a future reward.

Salvation is clearly presented as a present reality:
Men are divided clearly into two groups, believers and non-believers, the saved & the perishing.


he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
7
0
Re: It Is Nonsense to Claim that Christ Has Saved All Men from Bondage to Sin

Hurling mud won't prove your point Cassian. Put up or shut up. Post your proof for your assertions or retract.

The below is not vacuous:

being filled with all
unrighteousness,
wickedness,
covetousness,
maliciousness;
full of envy,
murder,
strife,
deceit,
malignity;
whisperers,
backbiters,
hateful to God,
insolent,
haughty,
boastful,
inventors of evil things,
disobedient to parents,
without understanding,
covenant-breakers,
without natural affection,
unmerciful:


Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man,
thou therefore that teachest another, teache

There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one:

Their throat is an open sepulchre;
With their tongues they have used deceit:
The poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace have they not known:

There is no fear of God before their eyes.
I have already explained this throughly already, and it has been historical fact for 2000 years. That you don't understand it is not my problem.

The texts you again post, in not vacuous, your theology is vacuous. These texts again point out clearly that man is responsible for his sin. Thus Christ redeemed mankind from death and sin, freed mankind from the bondage to death and sin.

Your theology is so far outside of scripture which is why you cannot recognize anything one states that is scriptural. You don't even recognize the truthfulness of your own statements as in the above.
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
7
0
Re: Mankind Has Not Been Freed from Death

As Genesis 5 drones on, "And he died . . . And he died . . . And he died . . . "

The serpent said, "You shall not surely die."

The Word of God teaches:

It is appointed to man once to die,
but after that the judgment.

Some one digresses on his theory as to how Christ has saved everyone from bondage to death -- how ridiculous -- of course without Bible proof, as usual for that fellow.

For we are a sweet savor of Christ unto God, in them that are saved, and in them that perish; to the one a savor from death unto death; to the other a savor from life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as the many, corrupting the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God, speak we in Christ.


Amazing, you need to change scripture to make your point. Eph 2:1 DOES NOT SAY unsaved are dead in trespasses and sins. It is refering to mankind. Christ saved all men from death, we are all (mankind) saved by grace, vs 5. He happens to be speaking to believers, but it is about the state of man without Christ coming and saving us from death and sin. Unless you think Christ was also dead in sin and treaspasses because it says we (mankind) was raised with Christ. Read the rest fo the verse and you can quickly see that it aligns with I Cor 15:12-22, with Heb 2:14. Christ defeated Satan and the powers fo the air, demons.

You are very confused between physical death and spiritual death since you have conflated them here. Spiritual life is not even possible without physical life. Yet, you deny the physical which precludes spiritual. Again, points to a philosophy of ideas established on some proof texts, even irrelevant ones, which makes your theology vacuous with it comes to understanding scripture.

If there had not been a victory over death, there cannot be a judgement. Again, shows your lack of understanding of scripture.
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
7
0
Re: ES Is Attested to By Bible &amp; Ancient &quot;Church Fathers&quot;

You have run on saying things. Post your proof or retract.



Why do you refuse to affirm or deny it? Are you afraid?



Your difficulty is expressed by not quoting the Bible & not proving anything, but somehow supposed you should be believed for pontification. Once in a while you have referred to passage without quoting them or showing that they support your theory.

Put up or shut up, Cassian. Prove it or retract.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
I don't have a problem understanding others who make statements based on what scripture means. If you understand scripture, as it has always meant, you would not need all of the worthless proof texts which is your staple food to support false teachings which are ALWAYS based on proof texts.

What you have shown to be quite adapt at, is reconstructing scripture so it means what you need it to mean. I have never meant such a person as you who so desparately needs to confirm a false treaching, but changes the rest of scripture to make it fit.

You cite scripture and don't even know what it means. You continually cite texts that have nothing to do with the topic, and those that you think do, never address the topic of OSAS. There is a reason for that. There are no texts that support your theory because it is a man made theory based on proof texts that don't mean what OSAS proponents need them to say.
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
7
0
Re: Will You Shuck &amp; Jive to Avoid Eternal Security?

I realize it is an affront to the pride of man to believe in Eternal Security. Pride would rather find validation by works, instead of realizing that in depravity man must trust the Lord Jesus & God's grace for eternlty.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Let go of dismissing the Savior as a mere chance-giver; trust the Savior today.

Instant Salvation to Eternal Security Can Be Yours Right Now!

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)

There is a clear dichotomy: You either have or have not the Son of God with eternal life. The change must be instantaneous. Eternal life is a present possession for the believer, not just a future reward.

Salvation is clearly presented as a present reality:
Men are divided clearly into two groups, believers and non-believers, the saved & the perishing.


he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)
Again, a very true scriptural statement but denies OSAS. You are correct that there are ONLY two camps. Believers or unbelievers. Any human being is free to move from one to the other and back again during his lifetime. The question is where is one upon one's death. Is he a believer or an unbeliever.

What scripture DOES NOT TEACH is that once a believer always a believer. That is patently denied in every single book of the NT except two. We are being saved through faith, and if you agree with that statement, then when one loses faith, one is no longer being saved.

I understand from many previous posts and responses, you are a pseudo-calvinist thus a lot of your theology is based on predestination as the reformed proponents understand it. Thus, even faith is not relevant for a believer. It is what God has decreed. But nothing of that theory exists in scripture either.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Re: Will You Shuck &amp; Jive to Avoid Eternal Security?

Again, a very true scriptural statement but denies OSAS. You are correct that there are ONLY two camps. Believers or unbelievers. Any human being is free to move from one to the other and back again during his lifetime. The question is where is one upon one's death. Is he a believer or an unbeliever.

What scripture DOES NOT TEACH is that once a believer always a believer. That is patently denied in every single book of the NT except two. We are being saved through faith, and if you agree with that statement, then when one loses faith, one is no longer being saved.

I understand from many previous posts and responses, you are a pseudo-calvinist thus a lot of your theology is based on predestination as the reformed proponents understand it. Thus, even faith is not relevant for a believer. It is what God has decreed. But nothing of that theory exists in scripture either.

You understand nothing of faith. One who has faith in God and actually experiences his love can only grow in faith. Not fall back from it.

Now those who just believe, have never experienced Christ, So of course they will fall in and out of belief, they have no point of reference on which to base their belief.
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
7
0
Re: Will You Shuck &amp; Jive to Avoid Eternal Security?


You understand nothing of faith. One who has faith in God and actually experiences his love can only grow in faith. Not fall back from it.

Now those who just believe, have never experienced Christ, So of course they will fall in and out of belief, they have no point of reference on which to base their belief.
which no one has yet supported with scripture. You make these assertions but cannot support them. Scripture is repleat with statements, examples and exhortations of believers to be wary of falling away, some have fallen away in the examples.

Your theology is based on several false teachings. One being the satisfaction theory of atonement, and the other predestination which is the foundation of OSAS. OSAS is an absurd concept in scripture, and only works if you deny what scripture states and hold to predestination/OSAS.

there is no text in all of scripture that says man's faith is guaranteed either by God or man. There is no text that says all believers upon belief, remain faithful to the end. There is just to much scripture to the contrary.

Where is your evidence that a believer, all believers remain faithful to the end.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Re: Will You Shuck &amp; Jive to Avoid Eternal Security?

Scripture is repleat with statements, examples and exhortations of believers to be wary of falling away, some have fallen away in the examples.

[It is noted how Cassian gives no examples.]

Your theology is based on several false teachings. One being the satisfaction theory of atonement, and the other predestination which is the foundation of OSAS.

[Eternal security is based on the direct teaching of scripture and is help by those who deny the rest of the TULIP -- this is nonsense on Cassian's part]

OSAS is an absurd concept in scripture, and only works if you deny what scripture states and hold to predestination/OSAS.
[Again, there are those who believe in eternal security & deny the rest of the TULIP. This is Cassian in wonderland -- and he just says it with no proof]

there is no text in all of scripture that says man's faith is guaranteed either by God or man.

[Yes there is. The Lord Jesus is the author & perfecter of our faith. Also, "to you it is given to believe," and the Lord Jesus' prayer for Peter that his faith faith not. Since the Lord Jesus is He Who saves His people from their sins, and since disbelief is a sin, then He saves from disbelief.]

There is no text that says all believers upon belief, remain faithful to the end. There is just to much scripture to the contrary. Where is your evidence that a believer, all believers remain faithful to the end.

[Then why doesn't Cassian prove it from scripture? He seems to have Biblephobia. The point is that the Lord is faithful to the end, and guarantees that the believer has eternal life & will never perish. -- Cassian seems not to understand that if he is making claims, he is the one who must give the proof.]
It is noted how Cassian again does his Sola Cassiana, just saying things -- as usual he proved nothing from the word. So all of what Cassian pontificated falls thud to the ground. He wants to go on about this hypothetical negation of believers remaining faithful. Eternal security is not about believers doing anything; it is about the Savior saving His people from their sins.

The evidence of eternal security has been plastered so profoundly that one is without excuse for denying it. Let's see Cassian prove his "there are no" claims.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Atwood, do you believe you only have to repent/ask forgiveness of sins once ?

Or do you believe you have to repent/ask forgiveness each time you sin ?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Re: Will You Shuck &amp; Jive to Avoid Eternal Security?

Again, a very true scriptural statement but denies OSAS.
That is Cassian in Wonderland. That is what he says, but here is what the Lord says.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)


How is that Cassian can go on & on just saying things with no Bible proof? What is the point? Yes, you may exercise your freedom of speech, like the serpent "You shall not surely die."

For the reader I post more Eternal Security passages:

Saying above, Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein (the which are offered according to the law), then hath he said, Lo, I am come to do thy will. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest indeed standeth day by day ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, the which can never take away sins: but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; henceforth expecting till his enemies be made the footstool of his feet.
For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.
And the Holy Spirit also beareth witness to us; for after he hath said,
This is the covenant that I will make with them
After those days, saith the Lord:
I will put my laws on their heart,
And upon their mind also will I write them;
then saith he,
And their sins and their iniquities I will remember no more.
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

He who has disregarded the Savior, relegating Him to a mere "change-giver," is invited to repent & to trust the Savior for his eternal destiny.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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Atwood, do you believe you only have to repent/ask forgiveness of sins once ?

Or do you believe you have to repent/ask forgiveness each time you sin ?
Note how you focus on the wrong thing. The focus is on the Savior & His salvation.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Why are you so concerned about how to repent (change mind), ask forgiveness? What does that have to do with God's promises?

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins."

Can you bring yourself actually to believe that?

By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. . . .

For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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Re: ES Is Attested to By Bible &amp; Ancient &quot;Church Fathers&quot;

If you understand scripture, as it has always meant, you would not need all of the worthless proof texts
My Savior used proof texts. "For it is written . . . "
What is worthless is persons just saying things.

The entrance of God's word gives light.

Thou shalt call his name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.