Should a person who is reading from the old testament from Isaiah 53 be baptized immediately if he or she asks a pastor what it means and he or she is told who Jesus is, Emmanuel, God with us, the one and only Son of God, and he or she is told what Jesus did to save us from our sins by His dying on the cross and rising again on the third day? What if the pastor tells this person that he or she needs to believe with all his or heart and his or her response is that he or she believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God? The person is requesting to be baptized right away.
Should this person be baptized?
- Thread starter kentappel
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lioncub
Guest
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Yep.
Yep.
Thank youi lioncub for noticing right off that I was describing a scenario right from of the pages of the Bible, from Acts 8, Phillip preaching Jesus to the Ethiopian Eunuch. So yes I believe that such a person should be baptized right away if that is what he or she requested. I added, in my modern version, what Phiillip likely told him when he preached Jesus to him because the Ethiopian had been reading about the prophesy from Isaiah about Jesus coming to take away the sins of the world so when the man told Phillip that he believed that Jesus Christ is the Son of God he was accepting and believing what Jesus did to save us by Him death on the cross and His rising again on the third day which is what the gospel is all about.
I had a pastor tell me that he would baptize such a person, without me telling him that I was describing something the same as what happened with Phillip and the Ethiopian, if that person had accepted Jesus Christ but the pastor didn't seem to recognize that the person in my hypothetical situation had done just that.
I have had others say that they wouldn't baptize such a person unless the person had surrendered their life to Christ and made Him their Lord and Savior and when I pointed out that the person believed in Jesus Christ the response has been even the demons believe and recognize who Jesus is. But really, from James 2, the context is people showing their faith to other people, not to God, their faith by their works as obviously demons would not have any good works because they are demons. The response of 'even the demons believe' is one of the most misquoted Bible passages there is as if confessing our faith is not enough. Yes we are to offer our bodies as a living sacrfice, from Romans 12, but that is an ongoing offering of ourselves of surrendering to Christ as our faith for our salvation is in Jesus' sacrifice on the cross not in our sacrifice because if it is about what we do, our sacrifice, then why did Jesus have to die for us?
The Bible says in 1 John 4:15 that "whoever confesses that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he abides in God." I believe that this implies that people have faith in their hearts who Jesus is, He is Lord and they are not, that He is Emmanuel, God with us, and it is about faith in what Jesus did to save us by His death on the cross and faith in Him rising again from the dead on the third day.
Notice that the Bible does not say, "if you surrender your life to Chrst and make Him your personal Lord and Savior, you shall be saved." But instead Romans 10 says, "if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved." So again, salvation is about faith in Him and what He did and not faith in what we do as in an act of surrendering to Christ as, I also pointed out, our surrendering to Him is an ongoing life long process.
I had a pastor tell me that he would baptize such a person, without me telling him that I was describing something the same as what happened with Phillip and the Ethiopian, if that person had accepted Jesus Christ but the pastor didn't seem to recognize that the person in my hypothetical situation had done just that.
I have had others say that they wouldn't baptize such a person unless the person had surrendered their life to Christ and made Him their Lord and Savior and when I pointed out that the person believed in Jesus Christ the response has been even the demons believe and recognize who Jesus is. But really, from James 2, the context is people showing their faith to other people, not to God, their faith by their works as obviously demons would not have any good works because they are demons. The response of 'even the demons believe' is one of the most misquoted Bible passages there is as if confessing our faith is not enough. Yes we are to offer our bodies as a living sacrfice, from Romans 12, but that is an ongoing offering of ourselves of surrendering to Christ as our faith for our salvation is in Jesus' sacrifice on the cross not in our sacrifice because if it is about what we do, our sacrifice, then why did Jesus have to die for us?
The Bible says in 1 John 4:15 that "whoever confesses that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he abides in God." I believe that this implies that people have faith in their hearts who Jesus is, He is Lord and they are not, that He is Emmanuel, God with us, and it is about faith in what Jesus did to save us by His death on the cross and faith in Him rising again from the dead on the third day.
Notice that the Bible does not say, "if you surrender your life to Chrst and make Him your personal Lord and Savior, you shall be saved." But instead Romans 10 says, "if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved." So again, salvation is about faith in Him and what He did and not faith in what we do as in an act of surrendering to Christ as, I also pointed out, our surrendering to Him is an ongoing life long process.
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2Thewaters
Guest
Dont deny anyone baptism
if they are willing to change and put away their sins, they shoul be baptised
baptism gives them the power oover putting away all sins
if they are willing to change and put away their sins, they shoul be baptised
baptism gives them the power oover putting away all sins
So do you believe that the person in my scenario should be baptized right away if they do desiired?
Interesting that people who say they would not baptize someone if the person didn't say they had surrendered their life to Christ so they wouldn't have baptized the Ethiopian from Acts 8 because he had not said he had done so. They also would not have baptized the jailer and his household from Acts 16 because they also didn't say they surrendered to Christ but instead that they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ as that is what Paul and Silas had said what someone needs to do to be saved.
If a person is reading the Word of God, regardless of what Book, Chapter or verse, and is brought under conviction by the Holy
Spirit of their sinful lives and their need for salvation, confesses their sins, and confesses the Name of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, then they should be baptized if they ask to be...........If they don't ask to be, they should be counseled to that they should be...........
"Immediately?" Is this a trick add-on? Do you wait until they are off their knees? Or, do you grab 'em up and toss 'em into the baptistery before they can run away? They should be baptized, but immediately? As soon as possible would be my statement on this.......
Believing that Jesus is who He says He is, calling on the Name of Jesus, is confessing His Name.......still, the desire for salvation must be in the persons heart..........and if they profess belief in, then it certainly should be.
Still, I can't help but think this is a "trick" question, and you may be "fishing" here?
Not familiar with you or your comments, so can't say for sure........Phillip stated "with ALL THINE HEART........." to do this, one must believe in and thus realize the need for confession/repentance............
Spirit of their sinful lives and their need for salvation, confesses their sins, and confesses the Name of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, then they should be baptized if they ask to be...........If they don't ask to be, they should be counseled to that they should be...........
"Immediately?" Is this a trick add-on? Do you wait until they are off their knees? Or, do you grab 'em up and toss 'em into the baptistery before they can run away? They should be baptized, but immediately? As soon as possible would be my statement on this.......
Believing that Jesus is who He says He is, calling on the Name of Jesus, is confessing His Name.......still, the desire for salvation must be in the persons heart..........and if they profess belief in, then it certainly should be.
Still, I can't help but think this is a "trick" question, and you may be "fishing" here?
Not familiar with you or your comments, so can't say for sure........Phillip stated "with ALL THINE HEART........." to do this, one must believe in and thus realize the need for confession/repentance............
Point 2: One two of us have responded, so who are these "people" you are referring to?
Quoted: Interesting that people who say they would not baptize someone if the person didn't say they had surrendered their life to Christ so they wouldn't have baptized the Ethiopian from Acts 8 because he had not said he had done so. They also would not have baptized the jailer and his household from Acts 16 because they also didn't say they surrendered to Christ but instead that they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ as that is what Paul and Silas had said what someone needs to do to be saved.
Quoted: Interesting that people who say they would not baptize someone if the person didn't say they had surrendered their life to Christ so they wouldn't have baptized the Ethiopian from Acts 8 because he had not said he had done so. They also would not have baptized the jailer and his household from Acts 16 because they also didn't say they surrendered to Christ but instead that they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ as that is what Paul and Silas had said what someone needs to do to be saved.
Yes, the person would be requesting to be baptized right away and yes the person does believe with all his or her heart. My point is, even if a person said he or she believes with all his or her heart, that if their response was he or she believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God, a lot of people nowadays would not baptize this person. I believe salvation is about knowing who Jesus is and having faith in the fact He is who He says He is, and especially it is about having faith in what He did to save us, His works and not our works. I also believe that the person has to repent and acknowledge to God and himself or herself that he or she is a sinner who needs a Savior to save them in the first place. 1 Corinthians 12 says that no one can say Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit but some people push others to make a decision for Christ but without the Holy Spirit giving them conviction in their hearts, they can't do so.
My point is that some churches get caught up in how they do things they have people say a sinners prayer but often the focus is on what they do. Have you surrrendered to Christ? Have you asked Him to come into your life? Have you made a commitment to Christ? Have you made Him your Lord and Savior? Notice how the focus is on what they do and if a person has truly come to faith like the Ethiopian in Acts 8 and the jailer and his household in Acts 16, they would dscount that even if the person has faith in their heart if that person had not said the right words such as I surrender, Lord come into my life, Jesus be my Lord and Savior, etc and I have actually heard on TV and at a local church where invitaions to come to faith don't even mention what Jesus did to save us but instead it is about making a commitment to Christ. Again, it needs to be about Him and what He did and not on what we do. As if it is about what we do, that is works and works cannot save us.
No, it isn't a trick question as all I want is for people to focus on Jesus, the cross, and His resurrection from the dead as that is the gospel and nothing else is the gospel.
Oh, I was referring to the reaction I have gotten from people I have presented this scenario to elsewhere, off of the internet, not here on this page. On a personal note I had a man I went to to ask for prayer at a church, I was visiting, and he asked me if I had surrendered my life to Christ and I told him that I believe in Jesus Christ, I didn't feel a need to prove my salvation to him, and his response was, "even the demons believe." The pastor at the service said nothing about Jesus' saving works in the service and at their invitation to faith it was all about surrendering to Christ, making a commitment to Christ, asking Him into their lives as their Lord and Savior, and even he did say something in the prayer about asking God to forgive their sins, the only thing at all Biblical in the invitation, it was otherwise all about what they do and nothing about what Jesus did to save us.
I've heard comments like that before........and oft times they are posted here on CC.
People do not seem to understand "believing of" Jesus and "believing in" Jesus. the devil and his minions surely believe "of" Jesus......in that knowing He is REAL........but they do not believe "in" Jesus..........there's a huge difference.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification!
People do not seem to understand "believing of" Jesus and "believing in" Jesus. the devil and his minions surely believe "of" Jesus......in that knowing He is REAL........but they do not believe "in" Jesus..........there's a huge difference.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification!
this may seem to me it could be most any body of water and right away considering what Philip says to answer the eunuch's question:
[h=1]Acts 8:36-37New King James Version (NKJV)[/h]36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”[a]
[h=4]Footnotes:[/h]
New King James Version (NKJV)The Holy Bible, New King James Version Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
>and while searching i also found this verse (which may be helpful):
[h=1]1 Peter 3:21-22New King James Version (NKJV)[/h]21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
New King James Version (NKJV)The Holy Bible, New King James Version Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
[h=1]Acts 8:36-37New King James Version (NKJV)[/h]36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”[a]
[h=4]Footnotes:[/h]
- Acts 8:37 NU-Text and M-Text omit this verse. It is found in Western texts, including the Latin tradition.
New King James Version (NKJV)The Holy Bible, New King James Version Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
>and while searching i also found this verse (which may be helpful):
[h=1]1 Peter 3:21-22New King James Version (NKJV)[/h]21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
New King James Version (NKJV)The Holy Bible, New King James Version Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
Yes, those that doubt our faith when we say we believe in Jesus, even if we say we believe in who He is and have faith in what He did to save us, can throw the even the demons believe at us. But notice, from James 2 below, that it is one man showing he has faith to another man by his works, that works are evidence of faith to other people who cannot see our hearts, but not to God who does know our hearts. The even the demons believe phrase shows that they do indeed know and recognize who God is but they obviously would not have any good works as, of course, they are demons.
[SUP]James 2:18-20
New King James Version (NKJV)
18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my[SUP][e][/SUP] works. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! [SUP]20 [/SUP]But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
well, works without Christ is dead also. without Christ the bible is an ethical system for the morality of mankind. Apart from Christ, there is no salvation. This is why many stress the places of grace and the law.
[h=1][SUP]It seems that it is the Lordship crowd, that people have to repent, turn away from all sins first and surrneder our lives to Jesus as Lord who throw the even the demons believe at us that believing in Jesus is not enough. But my pastor makes a great point when he says if it is about repenting from all of our sins, that is impossible as no one could possibly remember all of their sins and besides even as believers we will still sin at times . Currious that the Lordship crowd seem to not stress what Jesus did to save us but instead that we surrender our lives to Him. But, as I pointed out, in another post, in Romans 12, although we are to offer ourselves as a livng sacrfice, that is an ongoing life long task and if it our salvation is about our perfomance, then why did Jesus have to die for us? Notice in John 3:16 it says whoever believes in Jesus but it doesn't say whoever surrenders to Jesus.
John 3:16
New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
[/SUP][/h]
John 3:16
New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
[/SUP][/h]
true, becaue if it is dependent on our works, then our works have to be perfect as, from James 2:10, if we keep the whole law but fail at one point, then we are guilty of the whole law. Thank God we have a Savior who kept the whole law for us and by our faith in Him we can enter the Father's presence and be with Him forever!
Baptism is an outward acknowledgement of being born from above, its symbolic of a repentant sinner who's made the decision to live for spiritual things and die to the flesh. Any professing Christian who expresses interest in being baptized should be made aware of the significance of it by the person baptizing them. If they fully understand the meaning and desire to take the step, then its okay to proceed.. My opinion of course
M
MaggieMye
Guest
One MUST be born again before baptism is even relevant. Believing that Christ is the SON of God is not enough. One must believe AND UNDERSTAND that Christ IS GOD>