It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Cody]

Our Lord gives the gift/reward of eternal salvation in which will always be there, and never taken away.

It is then left in our hands, and we can then accept, refuse, turn away, fall away, or walk away from that salvation. These are all biblical teachings, for there is scriptures that speak of each.

If you accept and continue to walk in love and God's will your reward will be eternal salvation.

If you refuse, your reward is the lake of fire.

If you accept then turn away, walk away, or fall away and not come back to our Lord. Then your reward is also the lake of fire.

scriptures tell us that people who walk/fall away were never truly born of God in the first place according to 1 john 2:19. It ties into the parable of the four soils when people will fall away in trial and temptation or be choked out by cares of the world. It ties into phil 1:6 about how when God begins a good work he will finish it. I see nothing in scripture that cancels out these verses and says we can just use our "free-will" to overpower Gods saving power.

 

[Atwood]

Our Lord gives the gift/reward of eternal salvation in which will always be there, and never taken away. [double-talk]

It is then left in our hands, and we can then accept, refuse, turn away, fall away, or walk away from that salvation. These are all biblical teachings, for there is scriptures that speak of each.

If you accept and continue to walk in love and God's will your reward will be eternal salvation. [false]

If you refuse, your reward is the lake of fire.

If you accept then turn away, walk away, or fall away and not come back to our Lord. Then your reward is also the lake of fire.

Kenneth, kindly refrain from making things up, which have no Bible proof.

Salvation is not a reward.
The wages of sin is death [yes you earn that]
but the free gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord. [rewards are for good works, another topic]

In all that stuff you posted above, can you not see that you make no reference to a Savior who saves His people from their sins? You are not thinking about salvation from a Savior who died for your sins to pay your hell for you, who promises to save His people from their sins.

You need to recognize that there is a Savior.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Salvation is in the hands of the SAvior, not our hands. We are the savee.

Repent of reducing Him from Savior to "chance-giver."

 

[Atwood]

Re: Eternal Security is the Doctrine that the Saved Endure

Wrong again, Matthew 10 is what He taught the disciples before He sent them out two by two to preach the gospel and how one must walk, not about the tribulation period do to that did not happen then and still has not happened.

Read the passage:

Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."

Tribulation: And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake:
The above & following is the Tribulation -- it did not happen during the time of the missionary journey of the 12.

but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

The tribulation ends when Christ returns. The enduring is enduring the persecution of the tribulation.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well then I guess the Apostles were never truly born of God either. Because scripture tells us for instance that Peter fell away to by denying Jesus three times. Difference is Peter came back to our Lord's good grace. James never fully trusted in Jesus as Lord and Savior tell after the crucifixion. Judas was an Apostle and part of our Lords fold, then fell away.

The scripture you speak of is to those who never fully trusted Jesus, and also to those who came in for the purpose to defile the word ( form of anti-Christ ).

There are those who do trust, and through a trial or tribulation in their life they turn away from God, mentioned in scripture as well.

This is one of the main points the parable about the sower and the seed is all about.

Some accept, some accept for a little while but then something takes it from them, some accept but do not do, others just totally reject.

scriptures tell us that people who walk/fall away were never truly born of God in the first place according to 1 john 2:19. It ties into the parable of the four soils when people will fall away in trial and temptation or be choked out by cares of the world. It ties into phil 1:6 about how when God begins a good work he will finish it. I see nothing in scripture that cancels out these verses and says we can just use our "free-will" to overpower Gods saving power.

 

[Atwood]

Exactly, Judas went against our Lord and is now set for fiery indignation. And Peter denied our Lord three times. The difference between the two was Peter returned back to our Lord, and Judas did not.

The difference is that Judas already had a demon & eventually was indwelt by satan. Peter's faith did not fail, but Judas never had any, The reason why Peter's faith did not fail was that Christ prayed for Him, thus maintaining Peter's faith for Peter! Peter was sorry for his denial and repented, but that has nothing to do with his salvation. He was secure because Peter had a Savior.

And the only security you will ever have is from a loving omnipotent savior,

Stop fixating for a moment on earning "salvation" and realize that it has been bought for us all by the blood of Jesus. We have a Savior, not just a chance giver. You appear to have no focus on a Savior.

Repent of reducing Him to a chance-giver and depend on Him today for you Salvation.

 

[Atwood]

This is one of the main points the parable about the sower and the seed is all about.

Some accept, some accept for a little while but then something takes it from them, some accept but do not do, others just totally reject.

The parable of the 4 soils says nothing about losing salvation. In fact it says nothing about a Savior saving. You are stuck in your unbiblical rut. Apostasy is explained in 1 John 2 as proving that persons were never part of the body of Christ, or they would have remained with the Body.

 

[Cody]

Well then I guess the Apostles were never truly born of God either. Because scripture tells us for instance that Peter fell away to by denying Jesus three times. Difference is Peter came back to our Lord's good grace. James never fully trusted in Jesus as Lord and Savior tell after the crucifixion. Judas was an Apostle and part of our Lords fold, then fell away.

The scripture you speak of is to those who never fully trusted Jesus, and also to those who came in for the purpose to defile the word ( form of anti-Christ ).

There are those who do trust, and through a trial or tribulation in their life they turn away from God, mentioned in scripture as well.

This is one of the main points the parable about the sower and the seed is all about.

Some accept, some accept for a little while but then something takes it from them, some accept but do not do, others just totally reject.

Judas was never born again, no scripture to back that up. Peter didnt fall away, he denied that he knew Jesus to avoid being killed, and was ultimately saved in the end. I haven't seen any scripture where a person is born again and falls away due to trial and temptation and goes to hell. Salvation is not about accepting, people are either saved by grace or they arent from what I've seen. Acts 13:48 "As many as were appointed to eternal life believed." We are appointed to eternal life, it has nothing to do with us or our will, it has everything to do with God who has mercy on whom he wills Rom 9:16

 

[Cody]

The parable of the 4 soils says nothing about losing salvation. In fact it says nothing about a Savior saving. You are stuck in your unbiblical rut. Apostasy is explained in 1 John 2 as proving that persons were never part of the body of Christ, or they would have remained with the Body.

Where did I say the parable of the sower means you can lose your salvation? I'm defending eternal security and used 1 john 2:19 already to make the same point as you did just now haha.

 

[Atwood]

If you refuse, your reward is the lake of fire.
.

Kenneth, do you have asbestos underwear?
YOu appear to be refusing the gospel; you appear to be refusing the Savior, and following a non-gospel.
You have him reduced to a chance-giver. Refuse not the free gift of eternal life which goes to those who trust the SAvior.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Re: Eternal Security is the Doctrine that the Saved Endure

This chapter is not referring to the tribulation period. It is referring to personal tribulations the Apostles and we will go through in trying to spread the gospel.

Brother shall deliver up brother to death, and children rising up against parents applies to what has been happening around the world from day one of the gospel being spread to now in areas where teaching about Jesus Christ is forbidden. Families have and are turning over their family members who accept Jesus to authorities in those countries, and they are put to death for it.

Believing in Jesus has been a death sentence in some countries since it was first taught. It is even getting very close to being like that here in America. We are already listed as a hate group and terrorist group.

We must learn to discern between personal tribulations, and the tribulation period.

Read the passage:

Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."

Tribulation: And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake:
The above & following is the Tribulation -- it did not happen during the time of the missionary journey of the 12.

but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

The tribulation ends when Christ returns. The enduring is enduring the persecution of the tribulation.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Deny Jesus is a form of falling away.

Peter came back to God's grace, look at Matthew 25 at the ones who fell away by deny Christ by not doing for others and see what Jesus says to them.

Judas was never born again, no scripture to back that up. Peter didnt fall away, he denied that he knew Jesus to avoid being killed, and was ultimately saved in the end. I haven't seen any scripture where a person is born again and falls away due to trial and temptation and goes to hell. Salvation is not about accepting, people are either saved by grace or they arent from what I've seen. Acts 13:48 "As many as were appointed to eternal life believed." We are appointed to eternal life, it has nothing to do with us or our will, it has everything to do with God who has mercy on whom he wills Rom 9:16

 

[kennethcadwell]

Sorry Atwood, but I do not teach half truths.

I do not refuse Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, which is why I do not twist His words to fit my meaning.

When He says you must persevere to the end to be saved. That is exactly what you must do.

Nowhere does our Lord say if you are saved you persevere. ( That is what you say. )

Kenneth, do you have asbestos underwear?
YOu appear to be refusing the gospel; you appear to be refusing the Savior, and following a non-gospel.
You have him reduced to a chance-giver. Refuse not the free gift of eternal life which goes to those who trust the SAvior.

 

[Cody]

Deny Jesus is a form of falling away.

Peter came back to God's grace, look at Matthew 25 at the ones who fell away by deny Christ by not doing for others and see what Jesus says to them.

How does this verse jive with what Jesus says in John 6:37 "I will by no means cast out"
Still see nothing in this parable about these people being born again.

 

[Simona25]

Re: The Sinner is Sin-Erg-ic, but Can't Save Himself

Simona,
Human works are excluded from salvation (eph 2).

If you want to be believed, a proof text would be helpful

I agree that salvation is by grace. It is not me (or any other mere human being) that makes salvation possible and available: it is Jesus Christ who is both God and man.

I believe works are good in the measure in which they can transform us. I am against the idea of doing good works in order to win heaven, or to become meritorious in front of God.
I believe at the Last Judgement, when the books will be opened, God's penetrating light of truth will reveal who we really are. And - in this revealing - some will experience joy, while some other ... horror. I believe good works are important because they can get us closer to our neighbor. They can melt our stoned heart. I believe that everything that happens in life, happens for a reason; for example, if you meet a beggar in your way, you can be sure that God put him there, in order to give you an occasion to manifest your love.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

This one here talks about those who have been born again, but then return to the world.

 

[Cody]

Sorry Atwood, but I do not teach half truths.

I do not refuse Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, which is why I do not twist His words to fit my meaning.

When He says you must persevere to the end to be saved. That is exactly what you must do.

Nowhere does our Lord say if you are saved you persevere. ( That is what you say. )

He says you will persevere right here Phil 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Salvation is of the Lord Lam 3:26
The Lord is at work regarding salvation Phil 2:12-13
And when God begins, he WILL finish it phil 1:6

This is eternal security taught in scripture as opposed to a false believe that we can somehow mess up what God is doing in us.

 

[Cody]

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

This one here talks about those who have been born again, but then return to the world.

How does this jive with the only unpardonable sin being blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? So is falling away suddenly unforgivable? Also sharing in the Holy Spirit doesn't mean born again.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Re: The Sinner is Sin-Erg-ic, but Can't Save Himself

Exactly, so am I against using works to earn salvation. I have stated that over and over.


The problem is that those who do not believe one can then lose salvation cancel out all the scriptures of those that fall away, walk away, turn away from our Lord.

I agree that salvation is by grace. It is not me (or any other mere human being) that makes salvation possible and available: it is Jesus Christ who is both God and man.

I believe works are good in the measure in which they can transform us. I am against the idea of doing good works in order to win heaven, or to become meritorious in front of God.
I believe at the Last Judgement, when the books will be opened, God's penetrating light of truth will reveal who we really are. And - in this revealing - some will experience joy, while some other ... horror. I believe good works are important because they can get us closer to our neighbor. They can melt our stoned heart. I believe that everything that happens in life, happens for a reason; for example, if you meet a beggar in your way, you can be sure that God put him there, in order to give you an occasion to manifest your love.

 

[Simona25]

How does this verse jive with what Jesus says in John 6:37 "I will by no means cast out"
Still see nothing in this parable about these people being born again.

Cody,

Jesus Christ doesn't cast out! He prayed for those that spit Him, beat Him and crucified Him. It is people that reject His love! He will continue to love all of us forever! His love is like fire (Luke 24,32: 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”).

So, His love is like fire and unless we become ourselves fire (by learning by any means TO LOVE OUR NEIGHBORS), we are not going to stand His love! You have to understand that it is people that reject His love and that God's love falls upon everybody!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Falling away becomes unforgivable if that falling is to the extent that you stop believing, trusting, and following our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as some have done. This puts you back in the category of unbelief.

Matthew 25 for instance shows a picture in front of the judgment seat. Our Lord Jesus tells those that stand before Him by denying Him they were cast out. They ask Him how did we deny you, and He said you did not give me drink, food, or clothes. They replied to Him when did we not give you these things, and He said because you did not do for them you did not do for Me.

These people believed in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, but still denied Him by their actions ( works ).

People have watered down the unforgivable sin ( blasphemy of the Holy Spirit ) to just non-belief, but Jesus says otherwise. If you deny others you deny Him.

This is another one of those chapters in the bible OSAS faithful don't like because it goes against their philosophy.

How does this jive with the only unpardonable sin being blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? So is falling away suddenly unforgivable? Also sharing in the Holy Spirit doesn't mean born again.