I know this is from a waaaaaaay older post but when I read it I could't help but ask what about Romans 1:24? I literally says "God gave them up." Sounds to me like there is a time when God lets go.
It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
- Thread starter Atwood
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I know this is from a waaaaaaay older post but when I read it I could't help but ask what about Romans 1:24? I literally says "God gave them up." Sounds to me like there is a time when God lets go.
He does..this is directed at Lost men who reject God and who do not like to retain God in their Knowledge as the worship the creature (self) instead of the creator........Romans describes accurately lost men and their/our natural state....men and women who reject God will be given over to a mind void of judgment and should expect nothing but wrath from God.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
God never held the hands of those in romans 1. They rejected God outright, and were never saved, they wanted nothing to do with God. So God gave them up and let them do what they wanted.
A child of God is born of God. He holds on and he never lets go. When we get off the beaten path, As a loving father, he chastens us and brings us back in line, But he will never let go.
I agree as noted in post 2602 as God leads his children to the SAME TRUTH concerning ALL things!
No actually He sees us as his sons and daughters who have become his doulos' in Christ!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
According to OSAS, once you're in you're not free to leave. What do we call people who are not free? Prisoners. And no that's not at all how I look at our relationship with God. That is the image YOU are portraying.
I beg to differ sir. This is not referring to people who were already lost. Yes they became lost when God gave them up but if you start at vers 18 and read the rest of the chapter, you will find that these were people who KNEW God, the have the truth but are holding it in unrighteousness, and they know that the things they are doing are going to bring the judgement of God upon them. Sinners that have never known truth do not fit that description. These are people who WERE saved but God gave them up to uncleaness.
Re: Overcomer = Believer = Eternally Secure
Atwood,
As I stated before, I do believe that scripture does indeed prove eternal security. However, I have yet to find a single scripture that supports UNCONDITIONAL eternal security. How can I provide scripture for something that the bible does not teach?
Put your doctrinal pride aside for a moment and think about this rationally. Both Ephesians 2: 8-9 and John 3:16 teach that faith is the prerequisite of salvation. To remove faith as the prerequisite is to embrace universal salvation for all seeing as Romans 5 clearly states that the Cross of Calvery atones for all sin.
Now, since faith is the prerequisite for salvation, then faith must also be the prerequisite for eternal security because "eternal security" is but one characteristic of salvation. To attempt to seperate the two is utter nonsense, caused by a misunderstanding concerning the nature of faith. Faith is not the work of man, rather, faith is the work of the Holy Spirit in the heart of man, therefore establishing Christ as both the author and finisher of our faith.
I realize that some would argue that one could not possess faith if it were not for the grace of God. However, when one comes to the realization that both grace and faith are manifestations of the love of God it becomes obvious that we can not possess one without the other for both are but one aspect of love. Grace being the manifestation of God's love originating from God toward man while faith is the manifestation of God's love in man toward God.
riginally Posted by Atwood
There are great promises of eternal security to the Overcomer;
Overcomer = Believer in the Lord Jesus.
1st let us consider the tragic consequences of unbelief. Is it fear (of sin, of not having self-righteousness) that hinders your trusting Him for your eternal destiny?
'I will never blot his name out of the book of life." "For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith."
He who overcomes shall inherit these things; "But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death."
Must you insist on continuing not to trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal security? So sad!
THE OVERCOMER = THE BELIEVER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of Godovercomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and
he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and
God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and
he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes;
and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he who sits on the throne said, Behold,
I make all things new. And he says, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said to me, They are come to pass.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.
I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and
I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.
And he who hears, let him say, Come.
And he who is athirst, let him come;
he who will,
let him take the water of life freely. (at end of Rev)
Good afternoon SeaBass,
You cannot be a Christian without believing in (trusting) Christ as Savior (not just one who gives you a chance at salvation).
Every Christian is a believer and thus an overcomer.
I hope I see you under the Tree of Life.
Gal, you speak double-talk. You may as well speak of temporary eternal security or insecure security. And it is noted that you prove nothing from scripture; that was all you.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
Atwood,
As I stated before, I do believe that scripture does indeed prove eternal security. However, I have yet to find a single scripture that supports UNCONDITIONAL eternal security. How can I provide scripture for something that the bible does not teach?
Put your doctrinal pride aside for a moment and think about this rationally. Both Ephesians 2: 8-9 and John 3:16 teach that faith is the prerequisite of salvation. To remove faith as the prerequisite is to embrace universal salvation for all seeing as Romans 5 clearly states that the Cross of Calvery atones for all sin.
Now, since faith is the prerequisite for salvation, then faith must also be the prerequisite for eternal security because "eternal security" is but one characteristic of salvation. To attempt to seperate the two is utter nonsense, caused by a misunderstanding concerning the nature of faith. Faith is not the work of man, rather, faith is the work of the Holy Spirit in the heart of man, therefore establishing Christ as both the author and finisher of our faith.
I realize that some would argue that one could not possess faith if it were not for the grace of God. However, when one comes to the realization that both grace and faith are manifestations of the love of God it becomes obvious that we can not possess one without the other for both are but one aspect of love. Grace being the manifestation of God's love originating from God toward man while faith is the manifestation of God's love in man toward God.
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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
So while your here on earth, You will trust Self and not God.
Sorry to hear that, for if you do this. You will never see heaven, let alone have eternal life.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
again, This must be how you treat your children.
If you had perfect parents, You would never WANT TO LEAVE. You may not obey them all the time, But you would never wish to stop being their children.
This is how those who have been adopted as Gods children feel. If not. they do not Know God. And have never known God. for if they did. As John said, they would never depart.
Spoken with a true lack of understanding of the issues and the statements. Tunnel-vision is indeed a handicap.
I would turn that around and say that if you believe you can accept Christ and then not be punished for blaspheme, you may never see heaven or have eternal life.
Except I wouldn't say that about anyone. The question of one's salvation resides with THAT PERSON AND GOD. YOU have no right to make ANY judgment on that.
And jeez people. It's YOU'RE as in YOU ARE. Your is possessive. It's not that hard and shows either lack of understanding or lack of attention to the details. Which is exactly what OSAS is.
A
Alligator
Guest
and vs 32 makes it abundantly clear...[SUP]32[/SUP]Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
look out for a greek verb now
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because they made that choice
[SUP]66 [/SUP]From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
[SUP]67 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
[SUP]68 [/SUP]Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yes it is a handi-cap. I pray one day you open your eyes to see the real situation.
If you have accpeted Christ, You have already changed from a blasphemous state to a state of adoption. You have already stopped commiting blasphemy of the spirit.
If you are still trying to earn eternal life. Your still in a blasphemous state. And are in danger of hellfire.
Nice try though (that tunnel vision thingy you have)
You can turn that around, I can judge a gospel. And warn you of your impending doom. The apostles did it all the time.
But as stated earlier. If yuo will nto listen to them, you will nto listen to us.
Look at this A perfect statement of how a child would love and cherish a perfect parent (god) and you did not even respond to it. Instead you did like they always do. When in circles and side streets, and did everythign but respond to what was said.
Here I will help you out. It is not me who said I have no need to fear anything as a child of a perfect father, Paul said it. Maybe you will listen to him?
2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
Then again, I guess if you have never experienced the love of an Abba Father, then you can not understand where I am coming from.
E