It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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I did not misinterpret anything EG. I did research on the early church and what was taught. Not misinterpreting scriptures.

And in the research it showed from Peter and Paul for the first 500 years of the church taught one could lose salvation. I pray to God in Jesus name that you will do the research yourself. It is time consuming, but it is for a good cause. The seeking of the truth.

The roman church destroying the documents is a false ploy put on by the Roman Catholic church. The recorded history of the early church is still able to find and read. As a matter of fact, and most people don't know this but the Catholic church still holds most of those documents in their vault.
Well Kenneth, As I recall there arose a thing called Islam, that swept through the East. There was this great professedly Christian library, for example at Caesaria, library which was destroyed by the Arabs. And do you realize that no sooner did the Roman Empire take over the professed "Church," than persecution of heretics became Roman policy. How many murders were done by papists in the middle ages? I saw an estimate at 50,000,000. They got busy persecuting the real Christians. It appears to me that they converted pagan gods to saints, including Mary, and did a syncretistic idolatry.

But who knows what is in the vaults of the Vatican. This is the stuff of conspiracy movies. I think that the real Christians were busy being persecuted. Now what percent of the "Church Fathers" were heretics? Binity instead of Trinity, modalists, monophysites, Arians, universalists? We have the word of God, it is more than enough. It teaches eternal security. That is enough for me.

I trust the Lord Jesus with my eternal destiny. He paid for my sins & promised me eternal life as a free gift.
I shall dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

Now come clean, Kenneth. You don't care what Bible we quote do you? For you put human tradition above the Bible? You don't care what we quote, because your faith is in your denomination?

But watch out; God's word is powerful.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest

I did to. By using Gods inspired word. the ONLY words which should be trusted.
Are you going to trust uninspired men? or the imnpired word of God?


The problem with just reading the bible is just that you don't get the true context of scriptures. Even Jesus said to search out all things, test all things, and that you must research to find out what was meant by what they said.


Then go become a catholic. ( you are one anyway in part) because history in the words of men shows the roman church was the only church.


That is not true as well because there are plenty of churches that claim to be the one true church.
The true church is those who believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and try to follow all that He said to do.

Again, In rome's own documents, they destroyed any and all books which taught anythign different than what they believed in, Anything they called heresy. Do you think they would spare any books which showed anyone believed in eternal security?



God promised to keep his word pure. not the words of men. Israel should have proven that. Their history books proved jesus was a heretic. So much for how good those history books did the jews now isnt it?


But his words are not pure, they have been changed, words taken out, words put in. That is why you have to do the research on the history to get back to the pure word of God, and not what has been defiled in the bibles we read today.

Once again to repeat what you said, the romans said they destroyed......lie from those who want to control all

lol.. Ok.. Lets make the same mistake the jews made.

Jesus is a heretic. History proves it (rolls eyes)
I am not calling Jesus a heretic...He is my Lord and Savior and I do as He has told me to do and to search out all things to find the truth.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Do you know that Islam and the Catholic church work together hand and hand...always have...dig hard in research and you will be surprised what you find.


Well Kenneth, As I recall there arose a thing called Islam, that swept through the East. There was this great professedly Christian library, for example at Caesaria, library which was destroyed by the Arabs. And do you realize that no sooner did the Roman Empire take over the professed "Church," than persecution of heretics became Roman policy. How many murders were done by papists in the middle ages? I saw an estimate at 50,000,000. They got busy persecuting the real Christians. It appears to me that they converted pagan gods to saints, including Mary, and did a syncretistic idolatry.

But who knows what is in the vaults of the Vatican. This is the stuff of conspiracy movies. I think that the real Christians were busy being persecuted. Now what percent of the "Church Fathers" were heretics? Binity instead of Trinity, modalists, monophysites, Arians, universalists? We have the word of God, it is more than enough. It teaches eternal security. That is enough for me.

I trust the Lord Jesus with my eternal destiny. He paid for my sins & promised me eternal life as a free gift.
I shall dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

Now come clean, Kenneth. You don't care what Bible we quote do you? For you put human tradition above the Bible? You don't care what we quote, because your faith is in your denomination?

But watch out; God's word is powerful.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
They did indeed, but there are some who don't understand the difference between God letting go of us, and us walking away.
Ricky, walking away is explained in 1 JOhn 2. Those who are really in the Body of Christ do not walk away. Imagine one of my toes up & walking away. "Hol' on thar, toe -- gitchee back heeuh."
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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You're a funny man, if nothing else. And I mean it in a good way.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Now come clean, Kenneth. You don't care what Bible we quote do you? For you put human tradition above the Bible? You don't care what we quote, because your faith is in your denomination?



No I put our Lord Jesus first, and then the bible and what the Apostles taught from what they learned from Jesus and in turn taught to those who followed before it got twisted and perverted by the Roman empire and those else to follow.
 
S

Sinnner

Guest
Im beginning to see the true problem. It is yall not knowing your enemy. The bible teaches that we are at war, right? A big part of war is knowing your enemy. Atwood, how can you not know your enemy? Anyone familiar with how satan works is familiar with who Aliester Crowley is. When you know you enemy you can spot his lies a mile away and you would see how clear it is that OSAS is one of satans lies. Do some research on Satanism.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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I am not calling Jesus a heretic...He is my Lord and Savior and I do as He has told me to do and to search out all things to find the truth.
There is no "Roman Church" in the Bible. There is a church at Rome; no hint that it is superior. The Church in the Bible is the Catholic (universal, not Roman) Church, composed of everyone who trusts the real Christ as Savior -- those who trust Him for their eternal destiny. You get in it only by trusting Christ & being baptized of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13).

You are invited to join! You don't even have to leave an idolatrous denomination to get in the Church (though you should), and the Church is no denomination.

But you do have to trust the Lord Jesus as SAvior, not just as One who gives you a chance at salvation.

If you do as He tells you to do, then
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Atwood through my times I have met people, some that are a lot older than me who I talked to that followed Christ from a child to the age they are now and tried to live the way we are told to in the bible. Then some thing happened in their life that caused them to stop believing in Christ, they turned away. I talked to them some listened and came back to Christ, and others just blew me off. Now the ones who blew me off if they continue in their unbelief will lose salvation.

Ricky, walking away is explained in 1 JOhn 2. Those who are really in the Body of Christ do not walk away. Imagine one of my toes up & walking away. "Hol' on thar, toe -- gitchee back heeuh."
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Im beginning to see the true problem. It is yall not knowing your enemy. The bible teaches that we are at war, right? A big part of war is knowing your enemy. Atwood, how can you not know your enemy? Anyone familiar with how satan works is familiar with who Aliester Crowley is. When you know you enemy you can spot his lies a mile away and you would see how clear it is that OSAS is one of satans lies. Do some research on Satanism.
If you have something to claim about AC, I will leave it to you to do the proving.

What the Lord teaches in His word is no lie.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
I shall dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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So far as I know, all cults deny eternal security.

Aliester Crowley?

Is someone claiming that AC advocated that if you trust the Lord Jesus as Savior you get eternal life?

Or was that some phony attempt to discredit OSS by association? Are the opponents abandoning the Calvin canard for Aliester Crowley?

I did take a peak at the WickedPedia article on him, where it says he abandoned the Plymouth Brethren movement, which so far as I know is a hot-bed of actually trusting the Lord Jesus as Savior & thus being eternally secure.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
The church in the bible is not stated as being Catholic either. It says the apostles were called Christians not Catholics. Now even though Peter and Paul started the Catholic church, it was the Roman empire that first perverted the church which we now know as the Roman Catholic church. And the Catholic church is not superior to any other church and is not the true church. The true church is not a name or denomination like catholic, Baptist, evangelist, and so forth.

The true church is all the Christians in the world that believe Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior no matter what order or denomination you belong to.

And you said do as He tells you and you shall be saved, believe on Him ( also means do as He says )

Did He say repent, did He say be baptized, did He say confess Him before men, did He say to do for and esteem others more then self......Yes to all !!!



There is no "Roman Church" in the Bible. There is a church at Rome; no hint that it is superior. The Church in the Bible is the Catholic (universal, not Roman) Church, composed of everyone who trusts the real Christ as Savior -- those who trust Him for their eternal destiny. You get in it only by trusting Christ & being baptized of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13).

You are invited to join! You don't even have to leave an idolatrous denomination to get in the Church (though you should), and the Church is no denomination.

But you do have to trust the Lord Jesus as SAvior, not just as One who gives you a chance at salvation.

If you do as He tells you to do, then
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
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Totally false. Men die all the time. It is appointed to man once to die, but after that the judgment. The unsaved are raised for judgment at the Great White Throne & then sentenced to the second death in the Lake of Fire.
Yes, die once so that all men can be raised to immortality and incorruptibility because of Christ's Incarnation and resurrection. Death no longer has dominion over man, or this world. Christ gave life to the world, II Cor 5:18-19, gave life to all men, Rom 5:18, Christ defeated death the power of Satan, Heb 2:14, Heb 2:9, II Tim 1:10.

Because Christ gave life to all men, all men will be raised in the last day and all men will stand in judgement, that great while Throne Judgement of Rev 20:13. Those NOT written in the Book of life will be cast into hell.

Are you teaching the heresy of universalism? Universalism is an extreme "eternal security" position and a heresy, a heresy of so called "Church Fathers" too.
No, but you seem to not understand the difference between what Christ did for mankind, for the world, and what constitutes Universalism. They are not the same. But then OSAS has also been condemned by that same Church, if that should matter to you.



Again, you are unable to quote and prove. You cannot prove that James speaks of spiritual death. IN context a man is sick & calls for the elders. He confesses sins. There is no loss of eternal life -- nor do you have one verse that ever says ones lose eternal life. It wouldn't be eternal if they lost it.
If they actually had it you have a point. But no man has eternal life finitely in this life. Eternal life is attained by those those who endure to the end, who remain faithful to Christ, those that do not lose faith. We are being saved through our faith, not by predestination of some decree of God.
Of course you make a lot of assertions that are quite meaningless since none of them are applicable to scripture. You need to consistantly deny what scripture states in order to maintain your view of a couple of verses that do not even support "eternal security" as defined by you, and Calvin either.



Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Yes, Christ renewed, begat us again by His Incarnation and resurrection. It is because He saved us all from death and sin that He can again offer all men eternal life IF they desire to be in a covenantal relationship with Him, as was Adam in the beginning. Here is where your theory gets sunk every time. You cannot answer as to why God could not hold Adam in the same relationship believers have in attaining eternal life with Christ.


It states it is reserved in heaven for you. so obviously you do not possess it finitely in this life. Scripture clearly states that man, believers, can lose faith, and thus will not inherit His promise of eternal life. They forfeited when they no longer believed, no longer had faith in Christ. Every text you quote speaks against your premise rather than for it.


2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
there you have it again, a hope that is based on every good work. NOt given on a single affirmatioin of faith only. Again, you quote a text that condemns your view.

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Everything God gives us is free and a gift. Your very life is a gift. The air you breath is a gift. But in this case, eternal life has condtions for us to meet before we will be given eternal life. If not for the conditions, then God might just as well give eternal life to all men since that is what He desires.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Ah, those present tense verbs again. follow, If we don't follow can we inherit eternal life? Scripture says not, what say you?

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Since all things were given to Him and all things were reconciled to God by His Blood, Col 1:20, and that He desires all men to know Him and join with HIm, why would He cast them out? But where is man's promise of the same regarding his commitment to the covenant? You have yet to produce any that man can guarantee his faith.
Believers are in a covenantal agreement, not a predestined arrangement, whereby both sides have obligations to meet. You keep presenting God's promises but I never see any for man. If you really want to have eternal security yoiu need to present both sides of the covenant, not just one side.



John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Yes, that world that He saved from death as well. Then we have a conditional word again, believes, present tense, active and continuous. Nothing about having it now finitely and not conditioned on faith, since man can lose faith.



John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
again, conditional word. As long as we believe, keep the faith, we will not be condemned. But if we lose faith, deny Him, He will deny us. Doesn't sound like guaranteed eternal life no matter what.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Yes, Christ gave the Holy Spirit as His guarantee. What can you give to Him that will guarantee your faith? You have a very lopsided theory respective of scripture, but does work well with predestination where a covenant is not necessary, just a divine decree that certain men will be saved no matter what.

Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Thank goodness they are. We don't need to worry or concern ourselves with God's word, but again, is your commitment irrevocable, can you guarantee your faith?

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Conditional statement again. ONe needs to believe, not just a one time thing, but throughout ones life to the end, through thick and thin. We must be faithful, not lsoe faith in order to inherit eternal life.

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
so long as the believer remains IN Christ. As long as a beleiver does not lose faith. Can one be saved without faith?

The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable.
but where is your promise of the same. We are in a mutual covenant. OUr side depends on us, on what we do, whether we believe, follow, desire to be transformed into His Likeness and not abandon Him, not forsake Him, not deny Him.

So you posted several texts, but not a single one says we have guaranteed etenral life upon a one-time, mental affirmation of faith whereby we are saved finitely. Nothing about faith only either.

You have proved only one thing. Eternal security does not exist in scripture with the correct understanding of scripture.
You have also proved that it is a viable and very logical conclusion to Calvinism and the doctrine of predestination.

YOu have shown that these two things are mutually exclusive which is why you have such difficulty is showing eternal security based on scripture rather than Calvins interpretation of scripture.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Atwood through my times I have met people, some that are a lot older than me who I talked to that followed Christ from a child to the age they are now and tried to live the way we are told to in the bible. Then some thing happened in their life that caused them to stop believing in Christ, they turned away. I talked to them some listened and came back to Christ, and others just blew me off. Now the ones who blew me off if they continue in their unbelief will lose salvation.
One thing that is remarkable about your posts, Ken, is how you seem to ignore what I post to you as if you never read them.

How many times have I quoted the explanation of apostasy to you from 1 John 2? Did you read it? Members of Christ's body don't apostatize. It does commonly occur, proving that the apostates were never saved.

I am not surprised about "tried to live the way we are told to in the Bible." That means tried to be perfect, or hypocritically pretend. As I done tol' you, the words lose & salvation never occur in the Bible in one verse. If you have a version that has that, let me know.

Ken, you can't lose what you never had.
And from what I see, it appears to me that you do not trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
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Jesus Christ - Strive to enter in at the strait (narrow) gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. (Luke 13:24)

If faith and salvation are so simple and easy, why did Jesus say that many would seek to enter in and not be able?

Actually, salvation is difficult and too rare. Men and women who seek salvation remain dependent upon Sovereign gifts of grace and spirit and mercy. Faith is called "precious faith" (2 Peter 1:1).

Note also that Jesus exhorted his hearers to striving.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
933
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18
...
And from what I see, it appears to me that you do not trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny.
Saving faith is a gracious, heart faith and not a worked-up faith or heady achievement lest any man should boast. Saving faith will hear and heed the call of Christ and follow Him (individually and corporately) to the end.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
I just read that chapter and you fail to see that John is speaking of those who are considered anti-Christ in their own right because they came in just to defile the word and therefor were sent out from them.

Not people who were once saved or not. This is about the defiling of the word of God. This has nothing to do with those who once accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and the walked away. Read 2:18 and 2:22 it shows who it is talking about...anti-christs ( which twists and defiles the word )

One thing that is remarkable about your posts, Ken, is how you seem to ignore what I post to you as if you never read them.

How many times have I quoted the explanation of apostasy to you from 1 John 2? Did you read it? Members of Christ's body don't apostatize. It does commonly occur, proving that the apostates were never saved.

I am not surprised about "tried to live the way we are told to in the Bible." That means tried to be perfect, or hypocritically pretend. As I done tol' you, the words lose & salvation never occur in the Bible in one verse. If you have a version that has that, let me know.

Ken, you can't lose what you never had.
And from what I see, it appears to me that you do not trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny.
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
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One thing that is remarkable about your posts, Ken, is how you seem to ignore what I post to you as if you never read them.

How many times have I quoted the explanation of apostasy to you from 1 John 2? Did you read it? Members of Christ's body don't apostatize. It does commonly occur, proving that the apostates were never saved.

I am not surprised about "tried to live the way we are told to in the Bible." That means tried to be perfect, or hypocritically pretend. As I done tol' you, the words lose & salvation never occur in the Bible in one verse. If you have a version that has that, let me know.

Ken, you can't lose what you never had.
And from what I see, it appears to me that you do not trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny.
Changing the meaning of words again so it fits your false theory. I don't think you even understand the meaning of the word apostisize since in order to be one, one must of necessity be a member in order to be an apostic. Which given the correct menaing of the word, sinks your theory again. I can understand why you need to change the meaning of words to fit your theory, but that does not change the meaning of scripture.

And you are also correct in that we cannot lose what we never had. What we don't have finitely, absolutely in this life is eternal life. The inheritance is based on meeting the conditions of receiving it. You know, the believing, following, obeying, being transformed. Being the doers not just the hearers, etc. You get it at the end, It is waiting for you IF you abide in Him. Nothing in scripture states or guarnateed that man will abide always in Christ. In fact is teaches just the opposite.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
Like I said before I do believe in eternal salvation, but unlike some I do not believe that salvation comes tell you persevere to the end, because those are the words of our Lord Jesus and is reaffirmed by James.

Matthew 24:13 " But he who endures ( perseveres ) to the end shall be saved. "