As I've stated before, I believe the Reformation and Counter Reformation were part of God's plan. Neither side more so. Did it create schism? Yes, but not an irreparable one.
Catholic Heresy (for the record)
- Thread starter RoboOp
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L
Last
Guest
For one, it would be the Jesuits, not "the Vatican". Two, the Catholic Church has better things to do than go around suing over every obscure conspiracy website. Seriously, do you believe that you can take anything on the internet seriously because they have no been sued yet?
Because:
1) There is no proof
2) Ordinations are not done in private. I lived in a monastery and saw men being ordained as monks and priests. Vows and promises are always made publicly.
L
Last
Guest
No, they didn't. A website made that claim, and you believe it. You should sue whatever school you went to.
1. Brother, You said it is Jesuit not Vatican. I believe Jesuit is under Vatican. If Vatican not agree, with what Jesuit does, then there will be some clarify or denounce from Vatican, or sue etc.
One that make me believe is have not sued Yet, but I also consider some news like :.
Since the beginning, the purpose of the Jesuits has included global political domination, as Loyola himself once said:
Finally, Let all with such artfulness gain the ascendant over princes, noblemen, and the magistrates of every place, that they may be readyat our beck, even to sacrifice their nearest relations and most intimate friends, when we say it is for our interest and advantage (emphasis added).[SUP]i
[/SUP]
and This:
John-Henry Westen
Life Site News
Tuesday, July 14, 2009
Newspapers, blogs, talk-shows on radio and television are full of discussion over Pope Benedict XVI’s supposed call for a “new world order” or a “one-world government.” These ideas are, however, neither based in reality nor a clear reading of the Pope’s latest encyclical, Caritas in Veritate, the release of which yesterday spawned the heated discussion.
The Pope actually speaks directly against a one-world government, and, as would be expected from those who have read his previous writings, calls for massive reform of the United Nations. Confusion seems to have come from paragraph 67 of the encyclical, which has some choice pull-quotes which have spiced the pages of the world’s news, from the New York Times to those of conspiracy theorist bloggers seeing the Pope as the Anti-Christ.
The key quote which has led to the charge reads: “To manage the global economy; to revive economies hit by the crisis; to avoid any deterioration of the present crisis and the greater imbalances that would result; to bring about integral and timely disarmament, food security and peace; to guarantee the protection of the environment and to regulate migration: for all this, there is urgent need of a true world political authority, as my predecessor Blessed John XXIII indicated some years ago.”
However, in paragraph 41, the Holy Father specifically differentiates his concept of a world political authority from that of a one-world government. “We must,” he says “promote a dispersed political authority.” He explains that “The integrated economy of the present day does not make the role of States redundant, but rather it commits governments to greater collaboration with one another. Both wisdom and prudence suggest not being too precipitous in declaring the demise of the State. In terms of the resolution of the current crisis, the State’s role seems destined to grow, as it regains many of its competences. In some nations, moreover, the construction or reconstruction of the State remains a key factor in their development.”
Later in the encyclical (57) he speaks of the opposite concept to one- world government -subsidiarity (the principle of Catholic social teaching which states that matters ought to be handled by the smallest, lowest or least centralized competent authority) – as being essential. “In order not to produce a dangerous universal power of a tyrannical nature, the governance of globalization must be marked by subsidiarity,” says the Pope.
and This:
[h=3]Holocaust survivors' lawsuit against Vatican proceeds[/h]www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1424622/posts
Free Republic
Jun 14, 2005 - Vatican dealt another legal setback in Holocaust claims lawsuit ... The majority of the victims of genocide in Croatia during the Second World ...
[h=3]Ukranian Holocaust Survivors Sue Vatican (Kneisel) - H-Net[/h]h-net.msu.edu/.../logbrowse.pl?...holocaust...
Michigan State University
Class Action Lawsuit Filed Against Vatican Bank: Alleges Complicity In Holocaust Era Crimes Ukrainian Union of Nazi Victims and Prisoners (press release) 24 ...
[h=3]BREAKING NEWS: Vatican Bank Asked to Open Holocaust ...[/h]www.vaticancrimes.us/2013/.../breaking-news-vatican-bank-asked-to.ht...
Aug 4, 2013 - VATICAN CITY, ROME -- A formal request has been made to VaticanBank ... Holocaust victims, their heirs, and organizations, has also asked the ... has been suing the Vatican for money laundering for now over 10 years.
And more.
2, You said you accused European institute for Protestant study, lie because there is no prove, From what I know in the court system if there are 2 witness it consider prove.
There are a lot of books mention this Jesuit secret oath not only 2.
The bottom line is up to you brother. As for me, I will be honest to make evaluation. I understand we life in the politic environment. What I mean is. A politician, has to defend his buddy. Let say if I am democrat, Bill Clinton commit adultery, And after reading the evident, I convince hi did it indeed. But because I am democrat, in public I pretend I am not convince that he did it.
In my heart yes indeed I am sure he did.
I understand this situation, but for the salvation, I better make serious investigation and honest to myself.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Abolishing the papacy would go a long way to repairing that schism as papal supremacy was the first irreparable schism (and the most egregious) in Christendom to occur between orthodox believers. I don't see how it can ever be truly repaired without the RCC surrendering papal supremacy.
I don't believe the Papacy will ever be abolished, believe it or not. I think the true step towards reunification is a true Ecumenical council to discuss Trent. If that can be accomplished, then the field of play will change.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
It will be abolished when Christ returns and rules directly "forever and ever."
That aside, you are revealing that you do not really understand the extent of the schism with respect to the RCC doctrine of papal supremacy. It is irreparable.
Let me give you a different view: there will be a formation of a super world church consisting of a union between liberal ecumenical Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church, joining politically hand in hand, to create one of the most powerful religious forces on earth freely using the name of Jesus Christ: but it's going to be antichrist and political in many of its activities despite it's social action, charity, and ministries of compassion.
The pope will be considered more of a political than a spiritual leader of this great union. Protestant leaders of the ecumenical movement will insist upon and receive certain concessions from Rome in exchange. They will not be asked to consider the pope as the infallible head of the church and, in exchange, will accept his political leadership without accepting his role as Peter's successor.
I'm not asserting that the Pope in this super church organization will be engaging in antichrist activity. But an army of career people invading the most influential posts in this super church organization will be ungodly, antichrist people, obsessed with the concept that this super church must become a political power strong enough to put pressure on all those who oppose its actions.
While those in the highest posts of leadership will be speaking about miracles, love, and reconciliation the hirelings who work under them will be harassing and persecuting all Christian organizations opposed to their leadership. Homosexual and lesbian love will be vindicated by the leadership of this church union, including the pope, and will be both welcomed and encouraged. Homosexual and lesbian ministers will be ordained and given places of authority in this church union, and will be heralded as a new breed of pioneer introducing new concepts of love and evangelism.
Sunday school and church literature will be distributed in study curriculum asserting to children and teenagers that homosexuality is a normal and acceptable form of Christian sexual practice and most homosexuals will no longer seek help from the church as their sin will be defended by this super church as "gifts from God."
In some of the super church's member assemblies nude dancing will be excused as "artistic forms of worship." Men will become worshippers of the creature more than of the Creator, and God will be forced to give these kinds of worshippers
over to a reprobate mind.
The super church will condone certain occult practices (phrenology, palmistry, fortune-telling, horoscopes, etc...) in practice though it will never officially accept occult practices outright.
While all of this is occurring, a great and supernatural union of all true followers of Jesus Christ bound together through the Holy Spirit and mutual confidence in Christ and His Word will become a kind of underground fellowship and will include Catholics and Protestants of all denominations. It will bind together young and old, black and white, and people of all nations.
While the visible super world church gains political power, this invisible supernatural church will grow tremendously in spiritual power. This power will come from persecution. The persecution madness that is coming upon this earth will drive these Christians closer together and closer to Jesus Christ. There will be less concern for denominational concepts and more emphasis on the return of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit will bring together, as one, people from all faiths and walks of life.
Although this supernatural church already exists around the world, it will become politically more invisible. But as persecution becomes more intense, this body of believers will become almost radical in its evangelistic efforts. This invisible church will receive Holy Ghost power to continue preaching the gospel until the ends of the earth have heard acting as a thorn in the side of the super church "coming out from among them" as ultimately, the RCC takes a negative stand against the Charismatic movement within the Catholic Church.
That aside, you are revealing that you do not really understand the extent of the schism with respect to the RCC doctrine of papal supremacy. It is irreparable.
Let me give you a different view: there will be a formation of a super world church consisting of a union between liberal ecumenical Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church, joining politically hand in hand, to create one of the most powerful religious forces on earth freely using the name of Jesus Christ: but it's going to be antichrist and political in many of its activities despite it's social action, charity, and ministries of compassion.
The pope will be considered more of a political than a spiritual leader of this great union. Protestant leaders of the ecumenical movement will insist upon and receive certain concessions from Rome in exchange. They will not be asked to consider the pope as the infallible head of the church and, in exchange, will accept his political leadership without accepting his role as Peter's successor.
I'm not asserting that the Pope in this super church organization will be engaging in antichrist activity. But an army of career people invading the most influential posts in this super church organization will be ungodly, antichrist people, obsessed with the concept that this super church must become a political power strong enough to put pressure on all those who oppose its actions.
While those in the highest posts of leadership will be speaking about miracles, love, and reconciliation the hirelings who work under them will be harassing and persecuting all Christian organizations opposed to their leadership. Homosexual and lesbian love will be vindicated by the leadership of this church union, including the pope, and will be both welcomed and encouraged. Homosexual and lesbian ministers will be ordained and given places of authority in this church union, and will be heralded as a new breed of pioneer introducing new concepts of love and evangelism.
Sunday school and church literature will be distributed in study curriculum asserting to children and teenagers that homosexuality is a normal and acceptable form of Christian sexual practice and most homosexuals will no longer seek help from the church as their sin will be defended by this super church as "gifts from God."
In some of the super church's member assemblies nude dancing will be excused as "artistic forms of worship." Men will become worshippers of the creature more than of the Creator, and God will be forced to give these kinds of worshippers
over to a reprobate mind.
The super church will condone certain occult practices (phrenology, palmistry, fortune-telling, horoscopes, etc...) in practice though it will never officially accept occult practices outright.
While all of this is occurring, a great and supernatural union of all true followers of Jesus Christ bound together through the Holy Spirit and mutual confidence in Christ and His Word will become a kind of underground fellowship and will include Catholics and Protestants of all denominations. It will bind together young and old, black and white, and people of all nations.
While the visible super world church gains political power, this invisible supernatural church will grow tremendously in spiritual power. This power will come from persecution. The persecution madness that is coming upon this earth will drive these Christians closer together and closer to Jesus Christ. There will be less concern for denominational concepts and more emphasis on the return of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit will bring together, as one, people from all faiths and walks of life.
Although this supernatural church already exists around the world, it will become politically more invisible. But as persecution becomes more intense, this body of believers will become almost radical in its evangelistic efforts. This invisible church will receive Holy Ghost power to continue preaching the gospel until the ends of the earth have heard acting as a thorn in the side of the super church "coming out from among them" as ultimately, the RCC takes a negative stand against the Charismatic movement within the Catholic Church.
Actually, the RCC is rather open to the Charismatic movement. It's staunchly opposed to liberal Christianity. We do not support gay marriage, we don't support abortion, we don't support euthanasia, we don't support drug abuse, we don't support modern sexuality, and we don't support divorce. That's about as conservative as.you can get.
Now if only the catholic laity acted in a manner consistent with that position we would have something.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
At the moment yes and I commend that and it is a primary reason why I am presently tolerant of Catholicism (even to the point of being castigated soundly for it by many fundamentalist Protestants for correcting them when they misrepresent Catholicism) but certainly a pope may exercise his papal supremacy to change course (or just allow the RCC hierarchy underneath him too bring it about) creating a different future than the present as I posited which was not pure speculation but rather an alleged prophecy of a reputable Charismatic named David Wilkerson that published it in a book titled 'The Vision' in 1974.
Much of what Wilkerson wrote has already occurred though what I posited has not yet happened though it's important to note that the alliances by way of ecumenical documents and a moral slouch toward Sodom have seen much progress in recent decades.
Let's face it, a great many Roman Catholics disagree with the official position of the Roman Catholic hierarchy on divorce and remarriage, abortion, marijuana use, etc... and with respect to LGBT showing even stronger support for LGBT (e.g. same-sex marriage, etc...) than even the general population in North America, Northern and Western Europe, and the Southern Cone and both the numbers of Catholic supporters and the passion of their support for these things is increasing not decreasing over time.
It's not hard to see where this is headed but I'm glad that you are not among those ones.
Much of what Wilkerson wrote has already occurred though what I posited has not yet happened though it's important to note that the alliances by way of ecumenical documents and a moral slouch toward Sodom have seen much progress in recent decades.
Let's face it, a great many Roman Catholics disagree with the official position of the Roman Catholic hierarchy on divorce and remarriage, abortion, marijuana use, etc... and with respect to LGBT showing even stronger support for LGBT (e.g. same-sex marriage, etc...) than even the general population in North America, Northern and Western Europe, and the Southern Cone and both the numbers of Catholic supporters and the passion of their support for these things is increasing not decreasing over time.
It's not hard to see where this is headed but I'm glad that you are not among those ones.
D
didymos
Guest
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Pretty lame excuse for not knowing and loving the Lord. There is of course that continuing problem with the leadership that is scandal ridden and setting a terrible example for the laity. I cannot expect unsaved men or women to set a Godly example so despite all the platitudes of the catholic church they are simply unsaved men groping in the darkness of their sin. Calling themselves righteous does not make them righteous by God's standards.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Ahhh, Roger, our resident unblemished lamb.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!
D
didymos
Guest
'Why do you look at the speck of sawdust
in your brother's eye
and pay no attention to the plank
in your own eye?'
(Matthew 7:3 / NIV)
D
didymos
Guest
That comment wasn't meant for you.
Btw YOU and your 'buddy' will get nowhere pushing
catholicism here so you might aswell drop it.
You know what. I'm not the one who started this thread. And by the way, I don't know Maynard, and there are many of us Catholics on here. instead, why don't you take down your "No Catholics allowed" attitude, because I am sick and tired of the sheer snottiness of the responses by some people. You want me to drop it, why don't you?
L
Last
Guest
The Vatican is the name of a hill in Rome which is something used to describe Vatican City or the Pope. If anyone is going to sue, it would be the Jesuits per international law.
It's just silly to believe anything you read on the internet and say it must be true because they have no been sued yet.
This is called "I have nothing more to defend what I said, so I'll just post a bunch of other stuff in the hope of distracting from the original point.
Sorry, does not work that way with me.