It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[eternally-gratefull]

NOW you are making a judgement reserved for Christ. You have crossed a very dangerous line with such a statement.

No, I am stating a fact. Based on Scripture I will be right there with you. Every man woman and child who stands in front of God will stand convicted, Condemned, And just as guilty as the person standing next to him.

Only God knows my heart. You can only judge the outward man. For you to make a decision on where one spends eternity is to usurp Christ's authority.

It has nothing to do with where one will spend eternity. It has to do HOW we all STAND in front of God, guilty.

Such a statement puts you in a very bad place.

Such denial puts you in an even worse place.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You know nothing. You, sir, are ignorant. I hate no one. I am no mans enemy. The vitriol you have spewed at me with this post deserves attention. Take your lies about me elsewhere.

Again, Denial of your standing against God as being as guilty as the next person apart from being saved is just amazing.

 

[phil112]

Again, Denial of your standing against God as being as guilty as the next person apart from being saved is just amazing.

Standing against God? Are you on LSD? From your last couple of posts it looks like there should be a drug test before someone is allowed to post.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Standing against God? Are you on LSD? From your last couple of posts it looks like there should be a drug test before someone is allowed to post.

Your lack of humility and knowledge amazes me.

James makes it clear. If you break even the least of the commands, Yuo stand guilty of the whole law.

You want to rile against murderers and rapists. When you in the eyes of God are just as guilty of breaking the law as they are.

Instead of judging people (your the one who judged my friend, not me) why do you not be the sinner who gets on your knees and begs for Gods mercy.

 

[phil112]

Your lack of humility and knowledge amazes me.

James makes it clear. If you break even the least of the commands, Yuo stand guilty of the whole law.

You want to rile against murderers and rapists. When you in the eyes of God are just as guilty of breaking the law as they are.

Instead of judging people (your the one who judged my friend, not me) why do you not be the sinner who gets on your knees and begs for Gods mercy.

We are to judge. You should spend more time reading your bible than running your mouth in here. Telling someone where they will spend eternity is reserved only for Christ. You did that. You usurped Christ's authority. That is a really, really, bad thing to do.
When and which one of your "friends" did I judge?
You speak for God also? You know what He sees thru His eyes? Do you have any idea of the blasphemy you have uttered?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are to judge. You should spend more time reading your bible than running your mouth in here. Telling someone where they will spend eternity is reserved only for Christ. You did that. You usurped Christ's authority. That is a really, really, bad thing to do.

Wow, I did not tell you where you will spend eternity. I Just told you a fact. You are guilty. Just as I am, as the murderer and rapist. Paul was a murderer. is he going to hell?

I was trying to get yoiu to see a point. But your to busy assuming you know what I mean to understand the point. But i guess I should not be suprised.

When and which one of your "friends" did I judge?
You speak for God also? You know what He sees thru His eyes? Do you have any idea of the blasphemy you have uttered?

No. But I KNOW how blind you are.

You think I judged and condemned you. I guess you think All murderers and rapists will go to hell. And you are so much better than they are? No wonder you believe the way you do.

You did exactly what I thought you would. You acted like the pharisees and Got angry..

 

[phil112]

Wow, (1)I did not tell you where you will spend eternity. I Just told you a fact. You are guilty. Just as I am, as the murderer and rapist. Paul was a murderer. is he going to hell?

I was trying to get yoiu to see a point. But your to busy assuming you know what I mean to understand the point. But i guess I should not be suprised.


No. But I KNOW how blind you are.

(2)You think I judged and condemned you. I guess you think All murderers and rapists will go to hell. And you are so much better than they are? No wonder you believe the way you do.

You did exactly what I thought you would. You acted like the pharisees and Got angry..

1. You said: "when you and that rapist and baby killer stand in front of God. Niether of you will be worthy of eternal life"..that is telling me I am going to hell. Which makes the first statement I am responding to a lie.
2. You said: " I know. It hurts to think God looks at you with as much judgment as he does those people you hate"..you said it will hurt me the way God judges me, that He will judge me the way he does those I hate. It will not hurt me. You are saying I will be on the wrong end of God's judgement. That is judging and condemning in the same breath. You said I hate people. That is a lie, which means you judged, condemned, and lied in the same breath.
You tell me how God looks at me. That is putting yourself in God's place. That is blasphemy.

If you meant none of that the way you said it, you need to stay away from the keyboard until you can develop basic communication skills.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1. You said: "when you and that rapist and baby killer stand in front of God. Niether of you will be worthy of eternal life"..that is telling me I am going to hell. Which makes the first statement I am responding to a lie.

Saying one is not worthy of eternal life. and they are going to hell is not the same. All have sinned and fall short. No one is worthy. Is no one going to heaven?

2. You said: "I know. It hurts to think God looks at you with as much judgment as he does those people you hate"..you said it will hurt me the way God judges me, that He will judge me the way he does those I hate.

I said I know it will hurt. Because we think we are better than them. It is what we do with this knowledge and hurt that matters, which is the point i was making. But again, It went right over your head

It will not hurt me. You are saying I will be on the wrong end of God's judgement.

If your not saved and given eternal life. You will be, But that was not the point I was making. I was saying if left on our own, we are just as guilty as they are.

I NEVER said you would be on the wrong end of Gods judgement. Stop assuming you know what I mean, And try to sit still long enough, and remove your PRIDE long enough to listen.

That is judging and condemning in the same breath. You said I hate people. That is a lie, which means you judged, condemned, and lied in the same breath.

Then why did you even mention them.. Why is it when anyone talks about sin, It always has to be murderers, rapist. or child molestors. It is like people who reject osas, think they are better than they are. News flash. YOUR NOT! NEITHER AM I!

You tell me how God looks at me. That is putting yourself in God's place. That is blasphemy.

Read the bible. What I said is what the bible says about you, me and everyone else who ever walked the earth.

I guess you do not yet comprehend that, That explains alot.

If you meant none of that the way you said it, you need to stay away from the keyboard until you can develop basic communication skills.

Nothing wrong with my communication skills (except spelling I know that is bad). The issue is your listening skills. Your defenses go up way to fast for a child of God.

 

[Timeline]

I do not want to address any particular post, but the series.

I have heard truth from both of you. I believe that both of you want to please God.

EG's approach irritates me very much. I believe that the way EG says things can be very misleading. And quite honestly I go back and forth between EG gets "it". I think he does.

It seems that I agree more with Phil, but I don't pretend to know or have read everything (even in this thread) that Phil has said.

And I to am just a man.


But what is going on right here on this thread has ceased to be edification and has become destructive.

EG, when you said, "You will stand condemned just like the rapist....", I knew what you were saying, but don't you think that if you were trying to be clear and not argumentative, that you would have said, "We will stand condemned....." We must all accept Jesus Christ. He is The Way. I believe you and Phil know this.

gentle words

PS I am sure if y'all want to invest the time y'all can find a post were I prove myself hypocritical (not being as kind as I should have). I will save you the time. I am not perfect, but I have posted this, not in an aggressive fashion, but with love, hoping that this will turn back to a peaceful chat/thread that shows our desire to know the truth (as I believe that you both do, as I said before).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not want to address any particular post, but the series.

I have heard truth from both of you. I believe that both of you want to please God.

EG's approach irritates me very much. I believe that the way EG says things can be very misleading. And quite honestly I go back and forth between EG gets "it". I think he does.

It seems that I agree more with Phil, but I don't pretend to know or have read everything (even in this thread) that Phil has said.

And I to am just a man.


But what is going on right here on this thread has ceased to be edification and has become destructive.

EG, when you said, "You will stand condemned just like the rapist....", I knew what you were saying, but don't you think that if you were trying to be clear and not argumentative, that you would have said, "We will stand condemned....." We must all accept Jesus Christ. He is The Way. I believe you and Phil know this.

gentle words

PS I am sure if y'all want to invest the time y'all can find a post were I prove myself hypocritical (not being as kind as I should have). I will save you the time. I am not perfect, but I have posted this, not in an aggressive fashion, but with love, hoping that this will turn back to a peaceful chat/thread that shows our desire to know the truth (as I believe that you both do, as I said before).

here is the point.

I am as guilty as the rapist. As is everyone else. When we stand in front of God. We will not be any more righteous or any less righteous than they will be.

The smallest sin we can commit is the greates stin against God. He has no degrees of sin (as many churches want to suggest) You break the least of the law, Your found guilty of the WHole law.

People want to condemn and judge certain sinners, When they do not realise when they stand on judgement day, they will stand just as guilty.

What can wash away those sins, And make us righteous? Not our righteousness, But Gods righteousness imputed to us. It does not matter if we have committed only ten sins or a million sins, We stand guilty before God. Ten death sentences is no laughing matter. (most of us if not all have these against us every day. Every-time we look to self. and do not look to God we are in sin. How many times do we do this on a given day?)

Which is why it is so dangerous to put self in front of God. and why all this talk against eternal security of the woul based on our faith in Christ and HIS PROMISE is of satan.

If we realise how much of a sinner WE ARE, and stop trying to judge everyone elses sin, We MAY start to understand this (yes it took me awhile, I did not like being called just as evil as the murderer either. But Thank God he finally opened my eyes and showed me I was. So I could stop looking at self. And KEEP MY EYES FOCUSED ON HIM.

 

[Timeline]

here is the point.

I am as guilty as the rapist. As is everyone else. When we stand in front of God. We will not be any more righteous or any less righteous than they will be.

The smallest sin we can commit is the greates stin against God. He has no degrees of sin (as many churches want to suggest) You break the least of the law, Your found guilty of the WHole law.

People want to condemn and judge certain sinners, When they do not realise when they stand on judgement day, they will stand just as guilty.

What can wash away those sins, And make us righteous? Not our righteousness, But Gods righteousness imputed to us. It does not matter if we have committed only ten sins or a million sins, We stand guilty before God. Ten death sentences is no laughing matter. (most of us if not all have these against us every day. Every-time we look to self. and do not look to God we are in sin. How many times do we do this on a given day?)

Which is why it is so dangerous to put self in front of God. and why all this talk against eternal security of the woul based on our faith in Christ and HIS PROMISE is of satan.

If we realise how much of a sinner WE ARE, and stop trying to judge everyone elses sin, We MAY start to understand this (yes it took me awhile, I did not like being called just as evil as the murderer either. But Thank God he finally opened my eyes and showed me I was. So I could stop looking at self. And KEEP MY EYES FOCUSED ON HIM.

Points:
1 - Agreed
2 - Almost agreed - Yes, all sin is sin. And if we violate one we have become guilty and are in need of salvation. I really don't believe that God sees all sin as equally abominable.
3 - I do not want to condemn anyone. I don't believe that Phil does either. If someone is drowning and you make efforts to get them out of the water, that does not mean that you want them to drown. Sometimes are efforts aren't as efficient or effective as they could be. (The rest was already agreed to in response 1)
4 - Agreed, though I am not sure what you mean about 10 death sentences in regard to eternity.
5 - I don't believe that I speak against our eternal security being based on Jesus. I just believe that Jesus expects more of us than just a thanks, or a prayer, or any one time, or temporary act. The bible tells us to imitate Jesus and though we can never achieve perfection, our eyes are on that goal.
6 - Agreed, but I do think that you see a focus on self where I believe the focus is on Jesus with the hope of growing closer to Him each day. Not in all cases, as I do know some that think very highly of themselves (not talking about anyone specifically) and look down on others. Yes, that is a problem.

 

[Apostol2013]

Atwood you dont listen to the word of God so stuck on thay doctrine of yours ,Christ came teaching Spiritual truth and was very plain but even then people would misunderstand Him , and devise a doctrine of their own lets look at the nag hammadi or some of the other gospel manuscripts proven herresy by its content itself allthough some are left with a question ma4k to it

 

[Kerry]

You know why Catholics pray to Mother Mary. Because they were taught to do so since they were 2 years old. You know Muslims cling to Islam, because they were taught to do so since they were 2 years old. You know why Buddhist pray to Buddha because they were taught to so since they were 2 years old. You know why Baptist believe that water baptism is the only means of salvation. Because they were taught that since they were 2 years old.

The most difficult thing is unlearning what you have learned. That's why the cross is so offensive to people.

 

[Atwood]

So when we find passages like Jn 3:16, who is it being said to? Jews under the law of Moses, other passages directed at the Pharisees.

Good evening, Feedm --
I don't know if that means "freedom" or feedom (like a kingdom run on fees), or feed'm = give them food. I commend you for at least interacting with scripture instead of just pontificating.

Take another look at John 3 and see if you don't agree with me that John 3:16 is the prophet John's comments -- the narrative between the Lord and Nicodemus is over by that point. It was written after the Church had begun. But there are not different ways to be saved in the Bible: one for Jews, one for gentiles, one for the Church. The one gospel is believe and be saved -- in the OT men just believed in YHWH without distinguishing the Trinity; now we must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. I do agree that the Lord Jesus had a special message for Israel, but I think that would be a rabbit path at this point.

So when "believe" is the only thing mentioned for salvation, what does believe mean? Is that in harmony with other passages that give us actions to follow to be saved - Acts 2:38, 22:16, etc.?

That is a good question. While many, many times Faith or believe is the one and only condition for salvation, on occasion some different terms are used. Nonetheless, an advertiser must keep his word. If he put up 1000 ads that said, "Gootchie X Watches for $10," and then a few other signs saying, "Gootchie X Watches for $1000," he would have to sell the for $10. But this illustration doesn't really fit, since there is only one way to be saved.

Repent is used a little. But Repent (metanoeō) means change mind. Consistent with the multitude of by faith only passages, the only change of mind which saves is change from non-belief to belief in the Lord Jesus as Savior.

Once "receive" is used, Jn 1:12, but it is immediately explained as believing.

Very rarely baptize seems added on, but never is water mentioned in such a context. I take those rare instance to refer to the baptism of the Spirit which makes sense as salvific according to 1 Cor 12:13 and Rom 6, as putting us into the Body of Christ, and that in turn puts us on the cross with Christ co-crucified, so that believers can say that their Old Man was crucified with Him and "I have been crucified with Christ" Gal 2:20.

Many things were done to save the sinful man. Most of them were done by God, like dying on a cross, regenerating, sealing, promising to freely give us all things. Baptism is a thing done TO a man, not an action that the man himself does. The one thing a man must do to be saved is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thus let us major on the major way of expressing it, which is believe or have faith.

If a Jew under the law was to believe Christ is the Messiah, that mean he would do whatever is commanded in order to be saved by his Lord.

I am at a loss as to where you get that from. You have no scripture. Salvation is a free gift. "The wages of sin are death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." But while salvation is free, discipleship costs everything. We are to deliver over our bodies and selves as a living sacrifice to the Lord in gratitude for His unspeakable gift after we are saved.

Yet the truly believed and followed Him, they would obey. Believing gives us the "power" or the "right" to BECOME the sons of God. This does not happen until we obey what is commanded
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Those who believe suddenly have this "power or right" given by God to "become" a child of God. Yet if chooses not to act upon this believe and obey Him, then he will never become this.

The only thing required by way of obedience is to obey the command to trust the Lord Jesus. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved. John 1:12 obviously does not contemplate persons receiving Christ, getting power, and then not believing -- Believing is an explanation of the preceding. But regardless of how you take John 1:12, justification is by faith apart from works, and belief is reiterated time after time as the only condition.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast. Eph 2.

As I showed, the supposed different ways are not different, and don't contradict.

For we are saved by hope

: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

The ASV (1901), my favorite literal scholar committees translation no where has the expression "by hope" anywhere in its pages, according to the search I just made. Your passage is a mistranslation from Rom 8: "For in hope were we saved: but hope that is seen is not hope: for who hopeth for that which he seeth?
I took a look at the Greek and find no prepostion "for" there, but just a dative case ending on the noun hope; the dative case with no preposition is capable of a variety of meanings. Taking it as instrumental doesn't seem to fit the context. But I suppose you could call hope in Christ (not in the English sense of uncertainly) faith in Christ.

You might indeed come up with odd ball ideas about salvation if you didn't take the whole tenor of scripture with its multitude of faith/believe passages.

So the Jews and in Acts 2:38 were told what to do to be saved after they believed the gospel.

Not on the understanding that the baptism is the baptism of the Spirit. Moreover, being baptized is not something a man does, but something done to him by the Lord in effecting our salvation.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believe unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

And almost at once it is said, "For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved," with the context indicating that this is a call of faith; calling on the Lord is a way to express faith.

Confess is homologeo, literally to say (log-) the same (homo, with no phobia).
To say the same thing is to agree. In order to be saved we must have the Lord Jesus defined correctly in our minds as Lord, even YHWH, as Rom 10:13 quotes Joel where the word Lord (referring to Jesus) refers to YHWH. Believe is not just factual, as is made clear in scripture. We trust in Him as a risen from the dead Savior. It is not a public confession that saves, but agreeing with God about Who the Lord Jesus is is necessary when we trust Him.

The odd passages must be harmonized with the repeated over and over statements which offer salvation merely for believing in the Lord Jesus.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

Great passage. The baptism here has no water, just as Acts 2 has no water. Baptism of the Spirit puts us into the body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13). The Baptism of Rom 6 is a baptism into Christ, not water.
Did you intentionally not quote 6:3 before all this:

Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

It is not "into water," but into Christ.
This baptism is not something a man does, but is done to him. It is not an action of man to get salvation. Neither here, nor in Acts 2 is water baptism mentioned.

Same as Paul "why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling upon the name of the Lord" - Acts 22:16

You may infer no more than that the calling upon the name of the Lord (in faith, context Rom 10)
is what brings salvation, washing away sins.

If the sinners prayer was the answer, then Acts 2 would have been a perfect time for Peter to have them recite it, yet it was not there, nor anywhere else in scripture.

You don't know what all was there; nor do you have any way to know. But salvation is by grace through faith throughout scripture, apart from any works.

There is a difference between water baptism and Spirit baptism, as John the Baptist said. John baptized with water. The Lord Jesus would baptize with the Spirit. The point in Eph 4 is unity of the Body of Christ, we all have the same Lord, faith, and baptism (again a thing done to a man). The One Body is needed today, and it is the product of the baptism of the Spirit (1 Cor 12:13).

You seem to claim that there is a list of essential things to do to be saved:

Believe - John 3:16
Repent - Act 2:38, 3:19
Confess - Rom 10:28
Be baptized- Acts 2:38, 22:16, Rom 6
Live in newness of life - Rom 6:, Heb 5:9, 10:26-f., Gal 5, Matt 24:40-f.

The list concept is false.

Believe: Salvation is offered just for this so many times that the Lord would be a false advertiser having said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, and then not paying up.

Repent: Change of mind from non-belief to belief, not being sorry for sin (metamelomai, which Judas did and hanged himself).

Confess: Agree with God as to Who the Lord Jesus is, have Him in mind as YHWH when you trust Him. This is not a separate thing to do, but one' definition of the Savior.

Be baptized: Never said to be essential to salvation, but rarely included with faith as what the Holy Spirit does in saving you; not something a man does.

Live in newness of life: This is heretical salvation by works. With this approach, you will have no new nature, not be a child of God and unable to live in newness of life.

They understood that believing meant follwing the law given by who they believed on.

Rom 7: I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. The sting of death is sin; and the power of sin is the law: but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."

 

[Atwood]

You know why Catholics pray to Mother Mary. Because they were taught to do so since they were 2 years old. You know Muslims cling to Islam, because they were taught to do so since they were 2 years old. You know why Buddhist pray to Buddha because they were taught to so since they were 2 years old. You know why Baptist believe that water baptism is the only means of salvation. Because they were taught that since they were 2 years old.

The most difficult thing is unlearning what you have learned. That's why the cross is so offensive to people.

The cross is indeed an offense. I am grateful that the Lord had a man stick a Bible under my nose for me to read when I was 18. I read and learned that the religion I was raised in did not have it right.

The gospel of free salvation by grace through faith is an offense vs the pride of the man who would imagine that he should be vindicated in the judgment of his works, instead of a depraved sinner whose only hope is grace.

 

[Atwood]

Atwood you dont listen to the word of God so stuck on thay doctrine of yours ,Christ came teaching Spiritual truth and was very plain but even then people would misunderstand Him , and devise a doctrine of their own lets look at the nag hammadi or some of the other gospel manuscripts proven herresy by its content itself allthough some are left with a question ma4k to it

"Apostol": Are you naging me? Wanting to pound me with your hammader?
I suggest that you go back and read the Word of God that I posted.

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved."

 

[Atwood]

I know what NT means (New Testament).

Neither monks, nor askets exist in your church, but only whoever agree with your own theory of self-sanctifying salvation. Whosoever rejected communion (the Holy Sacraments) and hierarhy is your brother in Christ.

Hobo, there is no such thing as "your church" or "my church." There is only one Church, the Body of Christ, which you get in by the baptism of the Spirit when you trust Christ as SAvior. It is no denomination or sect. Persons in various denominations are part of that one body as are some non-denominational Christians.

The Lord's supper makes a wonderful worship service: Do this in remembrance of Me.
But we are not doing a human sacrifice. Christ died once for all for our sins. We don't worship bread and pretend it is Christ's actual body.

There are no denominations and sects, but whosoever read bible and accept OSAS-teaching from you, could become an already saved body of church right now.

There are denominations, better and worse. There are non-denominationalists, better and worse. All groups are likely to have unsaved people playing church who never really trusted Christ as Savior. The teaching to accept is
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. You must trust Him as Savior, not as an opportunity giver.

The Universal Church of whole the NT now is explained.
There are no monks and hermits inside, but as rightly noticed someone above devils are also members of the church, since they also believe that Jesus is the Lord.

There are no monks or hermits in the Bible, and no rocket scientists either. But monks and hermits can be saved if they trust Jesus as Savior instead of works. I think that there may saved monks, maybe also hermits -- if saved, then they are in the Universal Church. Those orthodox and RCCists who trust Christ as Savior are also in the same Church I am a member, the Body of Christ.

So you want me tortured by an inquisition, Hobo?

I want only good for you.
Why not ask the Lord Jesus to save you? Can't you trust Him to get you to Heaven?

 

[Kerry]

Eternal security is saying even tough I hit that hoe and I smoked that crack I am all good.

 

[phil112]

.................... EG, when you said, "You will stand condemned just like the rapist....", I knew what you were saying, but don't you think that if you were trying to be clear and not argumentative, that you would have said, "We will stand condemned........................

He didn't say "we". He pointed the finger at me. Sat down on Christ's judgement seat and made an accusation. That is blasphemy. He had the opportunity to say he mispoke, but instead turned to more accusations. I am in no position of doubt as to what was said.

 

[Kerry]

I f your in the boat it don't mean that you can jump out the boat.