It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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Yes for when one believes trully they will act upon that faith , like when a woman or even a man falls in love they will surely find out what the other likes and adjust to that persons expectation . But in the kingdoms case there is one standard not like the human realm but a higher existence true standards of everlasting peace , I seen heaven I seen hell I seen a glimpse of the lake of fire I tell you Jesus is real , I even seen my Lord several times , I been liberated on one of these occasions but I tell you Jesus is coming soon better get it right now and stop that Osas and any doctrine that denies Jesus His holy Ghost or even the spiritual circumsision all of these are damnable
Brother, how does OSAS deny Christ and our confirmation in the Holy Ghost?
I mean I think you have been confirmed not by man, but by God right, I know I have, and I do not say this arrogantly, I do so in all humility, knowing I do not deserve to be saved, no matter how well I might do

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: I personally am thankful, by Father's grace and hid Spirit has testified to mine, and I am confident in this aren't you?
This is what OSAS is to me and am thankful, Father has heard my cries and given me his Mercy, as he gives all theirs if they stay steadfast in belief as Paul says:
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Doesn't seem possible to me someone can rape and kill babies........that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Professed Christians are observed to apostatize, to deny the Lord Jesus. But such are persons who were never born again, never trusted Christ a Savior, like many church members.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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I am apostolic in ministry teaching true deliverance , my passion is the gospel to save people change lives that is my joy my fellow
Thank you, so are we forgiven by God before anyone of us here were ever born? Is there anymore forgiveness to be executed from God after the cross?
And if there is, please show scripture that states more forgiveness to be executed if one sins after the cross.
And 1 john 1:9 is not it, It does not state this is ongoing to receive and lose forgiveness if one sins
It is about Gnosticism, those that do not believe Christ came in the flesh, since no flesh pleases Father, as scripture states this. They failed in this Christ did come in the flesh and is the only flesh ever that ever pleased God
There is no more ongoing forgiveness, after the cross, it is finished done taken away, to be appreciated and walk as Christ walked in Faith
[h=3]1 John 3:3[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

So we be careful to walk by Faith and not self or by others trying to lead.
Only God leads if one is willing and asking for it day by day, to learn truth over error from God alone who lives in us, thanks to that final sacrifice of Christ's. the last shedding of blood for forgiveness to all. Daily getting self will out of the way, and getting taught truth over error

[h=3]Hebrews 8:11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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It's a door prize.

Sorry, I joke.

But I do disagree, maybe not so much what I think you are trying to say, but with the way you say it?

OSAS is a dangerous teaching for the careless hearer. I know that there are many who don't read the bible, but listen to people, picking and choosing what "tickles their ears." Maybe it is true, but some carelessly suppose that they are saved, never checking scripture.

I do wonder how one can be severed from Jesus if they were never part of His body. I wonder how Peter stood condemned after being given the keys, being filled with the Holy Spirit, and writing scripture. I wonder how Jesus says that the one that puts his hand to the plow and looks back is not worthy of the kingdom of Heaven - However, I have also wondered why Jesus says this since none of us are worthy of the kingdom of Heaven.
Good morning TimeLine.

Indeed there are those who distort Grace "I should sin that grace may abound." But it is particularly dangerous to consider oneself righteous without grace. The Lord Jesus came not to call the righteous, but sinner to a change of mind. The Pharisee who bragged on his righteousness, like "I fast 3x a week, I give tithes of all I possess" went to condemnation; the Publican who cried out, "God be merciful to me a sinner" ended up with read righteousness. I recommend reading very carefully Romans 5 to learn the real reasons why persons A are sinners and persons B are righteous.

Being cut off from Christ doesn't imply a person was a part of Christ's Body. This is a case where no scripture is of private interp, but we have to take each verse in harmony with the whole revelation of God on a subject. Taking a works/law/righteousness position cuts oneself off from the grace of the Lord Jesus.
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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The true church is not the roman Catholic church for we know that the roman emperor had all the apostles killed then miraculously decided to become Christian and proclaim himself grand pumba named pope
And as this is truth, neither is any Church here on earth, the true one:

[h=3]Hebrews 8:1-4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; [SUP]2 [/SUP]a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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Roman church also have fell in heresy (starting with fillioque changing of the initial creed). But it is known from the begining (since apostolic times) that the wittness of Lord Elijah-prophet will be the last bishop of Rome under name of Peter II.

That is why during whole the time of almost of two thousands years not a single pope was dare to take the apostolic name.

In time of initial unity Peter lead Roman church (and Paul joined the cathedra). And in the last time Elijah will be bishop of Rome under name of Peter II. And Enoch will join him in Vatican.

So they togerther will gather last Eight (truly ecumenical) council. And the initial unity of Church will be restored under authority of Roman bishop.

I am not catholic (orthodox). Still I know it as part of apostolic tradition.

If you doubt in me (as in source of information) inquire Catholic cardinal about the matter.

The words of Lord will be implemented upon last leaders of Roman Church
Matthew 16:18

King James Version (KJV)

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
For what purpose? The great Apostasy, or total truth? no matter to me for I know the future, no matter what things appear to be or not, God wins and has won, thank you Jesus
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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I don't trust a single whisper from the catholic church..
And I do not trust mankind, taking all said to Father in Christ and trust to be straightened out to truth over error, just as the light overtakes the darkness
 
P

phil112

Guest
Professed Christians are observed to apostatize, to deny the Lord Jesus. But such are persons who were never born again, never trusted Christ a Savior, like many church members....................
Why is it people refuse to believe the bible if it doesn't agree with what some man told them. Why is that atwood? What exactly makes you do that?

You cannot explain away what happened between Peter and Simon.
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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It is not a wisper, but a part of verbal apostolic tradition.

No matter who trust it, and who does not.

Do you suppose Elijah to be peacefull preacher????

When the earth will be filled with burnt human corpses (of them who will be burnt by him
Revelation 11:5), then christians will trust to the witnesses and not to the false teachers of newly-made illussive doctrines.
And just as the Devil did not see or understand what Christ's death was for, and then went oh no he's alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and those keys the devil had are now taken away
The same is for end time prophesy, mankind thinks and says they know, but do not, Case rested at least for me, I just trust, no matter what. And by this am rested in God by Christ the Son, anyone else?
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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Well, I appreciate you being civil in your response to me. If it makes you feel any better, my preacher is on the same page and quoted the same verses in John. But I don't think that God will be too upset with me if I am wrong when I understand Jesus to be the Son of God. Like I said, there are more verses than one that suggest plural and more verses than one that suggest One God. I don't think that it is grounds for calling someone a heretic (as you seem to somewhat agree, in this post). I do believe that we accept Jesus and God at the same time because you cannot truly accept God without accepting Jesus. And you cannot accept Jesus and deny God.

I can't remember if I wrote this last time or not. But there is a verse that says that God cannot be tempted. And another that says Jesus was tempted. I don't know Greek, so I am not sure if this was translated properly. If one of them isn't exactly right, I know it would be the one that says Jesus was tempted. Because I know that God cannot be tempted.
Do you really think Jesus was tempted? If were tempted, that means thought about it, which is what brings forth sin the thought of is the bringing forth doubt as is what happened to Eve.
Now Christ was not completely born of the flesh. for no man had ever entered Mary, she was a Virgin, And Christ was born here on earth to be a life-giving Spirit. This is completed in the resurrected Christ, not the dead one.
For Christ came to give us life and the thief comes to steal this new life in Spirit and truth. This thief is still fighting to this very day, one own selfishness as shown in Exodus with Moses representing God and Pharaoh representing self, in the magical fight that went on.
Satan was good at copying Father, but when it came to life and death of the first born, Satan lost and God showed God's power and love and Mercy and how Father just hates evil as I do as well now, you, or anyone else reading here agree?

Now see this the blood covered the Hebrews, and today the blood of Christ covers us all to learn how to walk as Christ walked in Faith, total dependence on Father to lead, get it you all. not by my works, by Father's, thanks Jesus
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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Look, the word ONLY = is your own addition to the verses. For it is not written ONLY THEM. The verse just give explanation o how the security of the witnesses will be provided in times of the rul of antichrist.

But, modern realities are such, that the way of the witness to the destined for him tiara will be directly implemented upon thousands and thousands of corpses, of burnt enemies of christianity and of the witness.

No wonder that you unaware about verbal apostolic tradition. Outside of church the Written Scriptures is only known source. But the verbal tradition (the ancient verbal teaching laid in apostolic times) is superior over the Holy Scriptures itselves.

And whosoever false teacher now is dare to interpritate the Scriptures and manipulate by the verses in support for whatsoever perverted heresy (perishable to human soul).
While it is also known from the begining that Devil himself likes to use the Holy Scriptures for own sedusive attempts:

Matthew 4:6

New International Version (NIV)

6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[a]

Are you sure? We all shall see, I personally am resided to trust Father and Son as one, freed to love as Father loves and present this love to all, as in 1 Cor13:4-13, an imputed righteousness that the believers do or are on their way to learn and see this in Father's timing not mine or anyone elses
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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So if a person that claims to be eternally saved
takes the mark of the beast of Revelation,

He will be eternally lost

ergo

once saved always saved is not Bible truth.
One's that know they are saved:
[h=3]Romans 8:16[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God

will not take the mark, no matter how bad it is, just as Stephan stayed the Faith and they stoned him to death, for him saying God does not live in buildings.
So will you go to the death for God? will you give up waht you most love here on earth for God during the tribulations?
As they got you all tied up telling you to deny Christ and take the mark, and you see your kids about to be killed right in front of you, are you going to stand in the Faith and watch them die right in front of you?
Or will you give up and take the mark of the beast?
You know, truth in this as those that say OSAS do as well, Confirmation comes from God and God alone, no Church on earth here can do this, even though they do as if they are God, and are not
What does inri, feli, deli mean in English from the Catholic Church. not sure spelled it right, Do you know what that means?
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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So if a person that claims to be eternally saved
takes the mark of the beast of Revelation,

He will be eternally lost

ergo

once saved always saved is not Bible truth.
Of those that know they are saved will not take the Mark
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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I am of the seal you see in my avatar that is my bloodline my tribe the times are upon us i seen the end times but the harlot received her mark already in the 1400 in constintanople a predeceding sign to whats coming
All scripture is truth, not one's interpretation of it is.
God is the teacher, the discern-er and the truth, Jesus who is God is the way, the truth and the life, (new life) in Spirit and truth, no other way to Father and Son, them as one. They sent the Holy Spirit of truth, the same Holy Spirit that led Christ so we can be led the same if we will a tune and listen , we will know the truth that sets us free
So if in bondage, anyone who is, is not in complete truth are they?
Now this is not for me to judge anyone, it is for me and you personally between God and you, to straighten out error over truth
I have had to rethink truth every time I found me in Bondage, now you as well I pray to see this truth and be free in Christ as what we are called to be
 

Cassian

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Oct 12, 2013
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What is your proof of that? What you say is false. I see no proof, just you saying it, Cassian. My gospel of eternal life comes from the Word of God, the Bible. It hasn't changed since the Bible was finished -- nor did it change at any time in history, except that in OT times men trusted in YHWH without distinguishing the Son of God as the 2nd person of the Trinity, in whom now faith must be focused.
When and what Church[/quote]

This is suggests an error. There is and only has ever been one Church. He who doesn't trust Christ as only & sufficient Savior is not a part of it. Denominations & sects are not churches.

The universal gospel: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. (not shall get a chance at it.)



The only and one tradition to keep is that of the prophets of God, some of whom were apostles. Human traditions are forbidden as religious authority by the Lord Jesus. The only tradition we have from prophets (commonly & readily available to men) is that in the Bible.

[/quote]all have a different gospel, a sectarian, personal one with a few followers. It is why you don't understand each other.[/QUOTE]

No, all do not have a different gospel. There is broad agreement among many Christians as to the gospel. As a matter of fact, I have done extensive research in Bible commentaries on a particular subject. Compare RCC commentaries, to learn that they do not agree with each other on the interpretation of particular verses; neither do the so-called "Church Fathers."

Now tell us the truth Cassian. Have you actually read the Bible even one time?

Mark 7 "Ye leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men." "making void the word of God by your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things ye do."

Col 2: "
Take heed lest there shall be any one that maketh spoil of you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ:"

Prophet & Apostle Paul: "
So then, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye were taught, whether by word, or by epistle of ours.

"
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which they received of us."

What leads anyone to suppose that these traditions are anything other than prophecy of Paul ("of us")? These are not said to be human traditions. Nor can this teaching disagree with that of the Lord Jesus.

Cassian, have you read the Bible even once?
[/QUOTE]

So we have offshoot Protestants telling Christ and the Holy Spirit that they got it all wrong. Your arrogance, ego and pride is truly the mark of a true sola scripturist. You have thousands of competing equal, valid, religions and you claim these are all preserved by the Holy Spirit as well as all of the thousands of variations. Amazing the demonizing of the Holy Spirit. Ah, but that is blasphemy, assigning the work of the Holy Spirit as that of the devil. What is even more amazing is the church you denigrate, call evil, a Satanic Church gave you the Bible.

Your statement is as good a rationalization of calling Truth evil so that a false teaching(s) can have validity. It is modern man at his best. Especially that good ole western individuality which is the antithesis of Christianity.
You are showing your true colors.
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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Well with every major prophecy as it appears is acompanied by a shadow form or a pre sign of the original constintanople was to be the new rome , like scriptures describe it , what happened in constintanople is an exact mirror image as the scriptures say it is the city that sits on seven hills and many waters , and there were ten unicipalities surrounding it and it so happens that these acted against the city along with the muslims . The city was burned their wkmen raped and children killed and as prophecy said no more will ships go in their and no more will merchants by her merchandise etc .. But this was the Holy Spirit that told me this , later i verified and it was true that city today is istanbul . Constintanople was the trading central of the world rich in silk etc .
And so was America, when the twin towers came down in 2001, 9-11 and Revelations confirms this in chapter 18. The kings from far east crying over her smoldering smoke, and the whole world shut down within the hour
As said before mankind does not understand the true meaning of Scripture, until after it is played out. Just as if the Devil knew what Christ's death was going to bring through ti , new life in Spirit and truth
The enemy would have never encouraged evil, selfish mankind to kill Christ. Ever since has been at it to steal, kill, and destroy
Keeping one and many focused only on the death of and not the resurrection of Christ for this new life that is given to us by Father, if we agree that by Christ we are forgiven totally, no more forgiveness is going to come as did once a year prior to Christ
[h=3]Philippians 3:10-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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Saved by the life not by the death or works after the death. BY THE LIFE
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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so you believe Revelations in it's entirety already took place or what?
Not yet, but is being as we speak, and has been being since the resurrected Christ, were the enemy is battling detoothed and declawed, all weapons obsolete, as like in the cold war, they used fear to stop anyone from going over there to win, having nothing but obsolete weapons
Satan by the cross is Judged, and all weapons that he had are stripped from him. All that is left to defeat is the carnal nature of ones self selfishness, to be born again here and now in Spirit and truth, a gift from Father to us if we will see and cry for Mercy seeing our own depravity and need for new life in Spirit and truth
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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It is a biblical truth that comes with a condition - abide in the Father and the Christ always.
There's no example either in OT or NT that one, who abided in the Father and the Christ, was snatched from the Father's hand. He'd always protect till the end.
It becomes a false teaching when men remove the condition.
It becomes a false teaching when abiding in the Father and the Christ is interpreted as men can go in and out of grievous sins.
It becomes a false teaching when men decide that it's impossible to be sinless.
Rather, maybe in knowing in this flesh and blood that I am in, can't be perfect and need God as my savior, then God might you think do those things in and through me That I am at a straight perplexity as why I can't
So then might I gain this new life? If I give up and tell God I can't? Is that not what Jesus showed as he walked this earth before the cross and the resurrection for new life in Spirit and truth?

Just a thought, and your take on this please?
 

Cassian

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Oct 12, 2013
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Again you say things with no proof. If you are working to attain eternal life, then you are not trusting the Lord Jesus for it. "Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved." The faith that trusts the Lord Jesus, is the same faith that continues to trust Him.

I have been crucified with Christ,
and it is no longer I who live,
but Christ lives in me;
and the life which I live in the flesh,
I live in faith,

the faith which is in the Son of God who loved me,
and gave Himself for me;
I do not make void the grace of God,
for if righteousness come through the law,
then Christ died in vain.

Eternal life is the immediate possession of anyone who trusts Christ as Savior.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."
Present tense & a truth repeated in God's Word.

One must rest from one's works and trust the Savior. "All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags."




I rejoice to see you quoting scripture instead of just pontificating.

You quote: "I John 3:23-24
23
And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as He has commanded us.
24
Whoever keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him; and by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."

Great verse, but nothing to do with obtaining salvation at all. Yes, we are commanded to believe -- and when will you?
Abiding in Christ refers to fellowship, which we may or may not enjoy after being saved. There is nothing about losing salvation here.

Then you quote:

1 Corinthians 9:24
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.

There is nothing about losing salvation here. The prize is a crown, a victor's wreath, a reward, not salvation. There are about 5 crowns (rewards) specifically mentioned in the NT. Rewards are earned by works. Salvation is a free gift of grace.

Next you quote:

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect,
that they also might obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Nothing is said here about what the elect do to obtain salvation. Paul is bringing them the gospel so they might be saved. BTW, the elect are not necessarily saved; a man is elect before saved. So the gospel is brought to the elect, they hear it and believe, and become saved. There is nothing about "losing salvation" here.



Then we have 1 Peter 1:9
obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

There is nothing here about losing salvation. Indeed salvation is the outcome of faith. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,

Lastly you quote Romans 2:6-7:

6 He will render to each one according to his works:
7 to those who by patience in good works seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life;

There is nothing here about losing salvation or losing eternal life. This is the hypothetical offer of salvation for good works, which can never be fulfilled, because all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. We know it is hypothetical because so many times works is said not to lead to salvation.
Read the context. Prophet Paul is bringing all under condemnation, prior to getting the reader (hopefully) saved. Prophet Paul says that there is none good, no not one! And he specifically negates works in the context. "
that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God:"


Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things. And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things. And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; who will render to every man according to his works: to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life: but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek; but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek: for there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law . . .


What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
] as it is written,

There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
12 They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one:
Their throat is an open sepulchre;
With their tongues they have used deceit:
The poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes.


19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law;that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God: 20 because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.



Nothing you posted even addresses OSAS. There is nothing relevant in this post. You changed the meaning of eternal life which you call salvation to something other than scripture defines it. Same ole story. Man can make scripture mean anything they need it to make it to support errant suppositions. OSAS is just one of them. You can change scripture's meaning to your hearts content but that does not change the meaning of scripture as it was given in the beginning and has been preserved in His Body, His Church that He established.

You are going all over the map making so-called last ditch efforts to find something that supports OSAS and you cannot find it. You are certainly welcome to believe whatever you like to make scripture mean. You have a lots of company.