It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[eternally-gratefull]

You go on and on, claiming things, as if they should be believed because you say them. Try God's word; the entrance of God's word brings light. The Calvinist system includes perseverence of the saints, yes. But many who do not buy Calvinism believe in eternal security.

But the issue is not Calvinism, the issue is what does God's Word say?

Does it say something about "should not perish but have everlasting life?"

I don't think that prophet Peter ever heard of Calvin:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Cassians problem is it is all about listening to men. So according to his belief system. whatever doctrine you follow falls under the category of some man in history.

The word of God means nothing to him. SOLA Scriptura is heresy according to him. Men come before the word of God. Men replace God. And men must do the work of God to save you. It is all humanism in the name of God



if you believe in OSAS, you are calvanist. If you believe in armin

 

[Cassian]

Cassians problem is it is all about listening to men. So according to his belief system. whatever doctrine you follow falls under the category of some man in history.

The word of God means nothing to him. SOLA Scriptura is heresy according to him. Men come before the word of God. Men replace God. And men must do the work of God to save you. It is all humanism in the name of God



if you believe in OSAS, you are calvanist. If you believe in armin

You must have been looking in the mirror.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Heb 6:6 "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

1) falling away could not be possible of eternal security were true.

It is not. The author of hebrews did not say they fell away, It says If they fall away. Huge difference.

2) Why would it be impossible to renew them again to repentance?

seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Which is exactly what you are teaching and promoting, You state the death of christ was not sufficient, For your belief to be true, there must be some sin CHrist did not die for. So if one fell away committing that sin, Christ must return to be crucified again for that sin.

The law put Christ to open shame, It said you could fall away and lose salvation. This is what the author of Hebrews is addressing. That is why, If (as the law states) one could fall away, they could never be renewed. Unless Christ came again.

Your belief puts Christ to shame, It states his death was not sufficient, Your no better then the jews following law eho believed the same thing. Only following different requirements.

-

-Christ is "the reason" one repents.

--Both verbs "crucify" and "put" are present tense and as long as one remains in a continuous state of crucifying and putting to shame "the reason" one repents, then it will be impossible for him to come to repentance. But if one quits crucifying and putting to shame 'the reason" to repent, then one can come to repentance, as did Simon, Acts 8.

Christ is the reason one is forgiven ALL SIN. Without the death of Christ, No sin can be forgiven, period. But you want to work your own forgiveness. Good luck with that

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But you would be promoting Calvinist theology if you are saying Paul is talking about the individual unconditionally being "saved" apart from the group "Christian".

this makes no sense, and is just another strawman

Anyone have any matches?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, now that is brilliant Rocket Science, is it not?

First one must be made alive in order to be made alive

Second, one cannot be saved without being saved.

Third, If Christ is your Savior, then He saves you.

lol.. I think it was supposed to be one must be alive to be in Christ. otherwise they are dead to him.

The word eternal is just the length of life that is given..

thanks for catching that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If once saved always saved is not a heresay, then the demons are saved. Even demons believe that Jesus is Lord and tremble. DEMONS. No one denies that Jesus is Lord except those who do not obey the Holy Spirit when He speaks. Plain and simple.

1. Demons were not offered salvation.
2. Believe will not save you, if it did. Anyone who believes in God and jesus would be saved no matter what they did. they could believe and live any way they wanted, and God would have to let them in.
3. FAITH ( a full trust, a full assurance in ALL God says) is what saves. not belief.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is fallacious is to base claims on human tradition or I said it. Your post is your word, not God's. It is human straw.

God's word brings light.

The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.

To an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,

He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus

scripture can not be more clear. why can;t they see this.

 

[Cassian]

Atwood,

Cassian, again you go on & on, not proving a thing from scripture, though you do try to make a personal attack on me via 2 Tim 4:3-5, which you don't bother to post. But it is you who advance human fables.

It was not even directed at you in particular. It is addressed to every single sola scripturists.
If I advance human fables could you please show me which fable and which man developed it?

Where did I ever say to depend on my word? I post scripture, It is written! Thus saith the Lord. Believe what you believe because you are convicted from scripture, not because I say it.
Be a Noble Berean.

You can be sure I will not follow you since I know it is a false teaching.

I was and I am which is why I know OSAs is a fable developed by man.
Then you quote a text that directly and categorically denies OSAS. I believe in the texts you are quoting. But I also know that you have assigned a wholly new meaning to them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You must have been looking in the mirror.

Your the one doing this. Not me my friend..

I do not call those who disagree with me protestant (a arrogant term from an arrogant church)

I do not call people arminian, Calvanist. Lutheran or whatever, I call my brothers Christian, We (if we have the same gospel) are united in CHrist, even if we disagree on some other doctrines. Those doctrines will be straintened out when we get to heaven, when everyone knows who was right, and do not care if they were wrong or not. It is the gospel that matters.

so yet again, Another strawman

 

[Atwood]

If I advance human fables could you please show me which fable and which man developed it?

Just go back and look at what you posted to what I responded, if you really care. See how much was Cassian and how much was Word of God.

I was and I am which is why I know

Cassian, you are not the I AM.

And here you made another futile post, as it has not scriptural proof, just I said it so that's that. Read the scripture and see how you are convicted.

Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[Atwood]

scripture can not be more clear. why can;t they see this.

Well, there is such a thing as the blindness of the unregenerate, and even judicial hardening in some cases.

My theory is:

that grace goes against the pride of man, because depravity is a corollary of Grace. Men do not want to admit that they are so depraved that their lives will not be validated at a divine judgment; they would not admit that they must be saved by grace if they ever will enter Heaven. Thus grace is a rejected concept by many.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

they don;t like verses like this. it puts their interpretation of passages like heb 6 to shame.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, there is such a thing as the blindness of the unregenerate, and even judicial hardening in some cases.

My theory is:

that grace goes against the pride of man, because depravity is a corollary of Grace. Men do not want to admit that they are so depraved that their lives will not be validated at a divine judgment; they would not admit that they must be saved by grace if they ever will enter Heaven. Thus grace is a rejected concept by many.

I like this. I have another theory.

Men do not like to be told all the hard work I have done, All the sacrifices I have made, All the Hate I have received by those who do not like God will account for nothign as far as my salvation Goes. It is all filthy rags.

Thats why the pharisees saw the truth, could not refute the truth, But just got angry and hardened their hearts.

 

[Cassian]

Atwood,

Belief is in the present as well as the past for a Christian. The outcomes is a present inheritance which fades not [present tense]. Reserved is a past condition which continues. Are Guarded is a present tense. The revelation of that salvation, which fades not away in the present and is guarded in the present -- the revelation of that salvation is future.

so OSAS is false. YOu don't have it in the present tense finitely. It is given at the end, you inherit it at the end.

It is good that you are looking at the text Cassian. Let the Spirit convict you as to the truth, and believe it for that reason rather than my say so. But note that "faithful" does not occur at all. The salvation-inheritance is not corruptible, never in any tense; it fades not away in the present. It is reserved from past to present; it is presently guarded. Those facts remain. There is a means that is employed, "through faith," which does not change the fact in the slightest. If a rock will not be moved, but kept stationary through steel bars, that doesn't effect the fact of kept stationary. The implication is that the Lord maintains our faith.

It is your implication that is incorrect. There is no text anywhere that God maintains man's faith. It destroys most of the NT, although I suspected that already from your theology.
The means is OUR FAITH. If our faith fails we have no faith which God can use to work with us. It is all very self explanatory but you have imposed a false suppostion upon scripture that has never been there.

This reminds me again, God would have maintained the faith of Hitler and Stalin as well if your theology holds. Even Joseph Smith is saved because he started out as a Methodist. Your theology lives in a mythical philosophical realm. It has no reality whatsoever.

The Bible doesn't agree with you Cassian. Eternal life is a present possession, but something awarded after a judgment. I have posted enough verses. It won't hurt you to study them.
As first John says, the Christian is to know that he has [present tense] eternal life.

that is NOT where we disagree. We disagree because man's faith is NOT guaranteed. Man can fall away. the NT is full of the warnings. ONE CANNOT BE SAVED WITHOUT FAITH. Very straight forward concept.

All the subsequent texts you quoted does not address OSAS. Nothing gives finitely eternal life upon initial faith. NOt a single one.
You can keep posting texts but there is not ONE, nada, text that supports OSAS. Let me ask you this. Does man have a free will? Did God create man a moral agent with a rational soul?

 

[Atwood]

If once saved always saved is not a heresay, then the demons are saved. Even demons believe that Jesus is Lord and tremble. DEMONS.

Persons are not saved and eternally secure for believing facts, as demons believe facts. They are saved & secure for trusting in the Savior and God's Word, like "The free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." This is a good issue to raise in defining what saving faith is. Saving faith is not signing a doctrinal statement.

Now As-I-am,

In the rest of what you posted, do you have Bible proof? If you have Bible proof, please post it.

 

[Cassian]

Well, there is such a thing as the blindness of the unregenerate, and even judicial hardening in some cases.

My theory is:

that grace goes against the pride of man, because depravity is a corollary of Grace. Men do not want to admit that they are so depraved that their lives will not be validated at a divine judgment; they would not admit that they must be saved by grace if they ever will enter Heaven. Thus grace is a rejected concept by many.

Of course, when one does not have any evidence to support their supposition. They by all means resort to unfounded assertions, non-substantive irrelevant rhetoric. It is the typical response.

 

[Atwood]

1. Demons were not offered salvation.
2. Believe will not save you, if it did. Anyone who believes in God and jesus would be saved no matter what they did. they could believe and live any way they wanted, and God would have to let them in.
3. FAITH ( a full trust, a full assurance in ALL God says) is what saves. not belief.

Believe (pisteuo) is just the verb form of faith (pistis). But saving faith or saving belief is not belief of facts, but trust in Christ. The English word believer or faith, can be much weaker that pisteuo = I believe or pistis = faith. Saving faith is not signing a doctrinal statement.

And of course as you say, there is no hint in scripture that Christ became an angel and died for angels or demons.
I think that one big purpose of the creation of man was to show the attribute of God called grace.

Marvelous, infinite matchless grace,
Freely bestowed on all who believe

 

[Atwood]

Of course, when one does not have any evidence to support their supposition. They by all means resort to unfounded assertions, non-substantive irrelevant rhetoric. It is the typical response.

Is this a typical snark by Cassian?
The proof of theological assertions is Scripture.



For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Believe (pisteuo) is just the verb form of faith (pistis). But saving faith or saving belief is not belief of facts, but trust in Christ. The English word believer or faith, can be much weaker that pisteuo = I believe or pistis = faith. Saving faith is not signing a doctrinal statement.

And of course as you say, there is no hint in scripture that Christ became an angel and died for angels or demons.
I think that one big purpose of the creation of man was to show the attribute of God called grace.

Marvelous, infinite matchless grace,
Freely bestowed on all who believe

The point James was making is they believe in one God (as apposed to the pagans all around them who believed in many Gods) Which is good. Even the demons believe in one God.

Believe in God is not enough, FAITH in God is what is required. Which is why those who just believe have no faith. (thus no work) and those who have faith, Will naturally produce works. It is their new nature.

 

[Cassian]

Your the one doing this. Not me my friend..

I do not call those who disagree with me protestant (a arrogant term from an arrogant church)

I do not call people arminian, Calvanist. Lutheran or whatever, I call my brothers Christian, We (if we have the same gospel) are united in CHrist, even if we disagree on some other doctrines. Those doctrines will be straintened out when we get to heaven, when everyone knows who was right, and do not care if they were wrong or not. It is the gospel that matters.

so yet again, Another strawman

Hardly a strawman when 500 years manifest the chaos, confusion with the sola scriptura milieu, which is 95
% protestant.
It is a factual historical fact.
The point is we don't have the same Gospel. That should be quite obvious to you.