It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Deadtosin]

is there any scripture that says we are saved before the end of our lives? or does the scripture say "will be" saved?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

QED

Don't ya get it bro?

the word truly means nothing

the word eternal means nothing.

It is all just a whisper God made hoping no one would actually hear him. Because he really wanted them to work hard to earn it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

is there any scripture that says we are saved before the end of our lives? or does the scripture say "will be" saved?

Romans 8:24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?

1 Corinthians 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

All past tense.

 

[Timeline]

Thats not twisted logic. As for you, you failed to leave out the most important part. Where is Faith in your list of things. Many people acknowledge that Christ died, and he had passion. But have NO FAITH IN his him at all. I think we can see it here, Your adding works, and left out faith. That is twisted my friend, You have to much YOU and not enough CHRIST.


Oh I can't? Then why did God call our good works filthy bloody rags. Why did God say their was non righteous no not one. Why did God say not by our works of righteousness but by his mercy.

When you quote "our righteousnesses are as filthy rags", are you referring to Isaiah 64?

 

[Apostol2013]

O s a s is not a biblical doctrine it doesnt coincide with the apostles theology we are suppose to be one mind one spirit , now o s a s is heressy and i can say this as to say it teaches a spiritual slothfullness that leads into darkness , my advice pray and fast till you hear God then you will be ministered in the right direction since you dont take sound advice

 

[Apostol2013]

A believer can fall away and be lost forever if he dies in his sins and never seeks forgiveness but any believer can be regenerated lest he perish beforehand

 

[Deadtosin]

hmmm my bible doesn't read like that. Romans 8:24 says "are saved" not "were saved"
Ephesians 2:8 says "are ye saved" not "we were saved" Titus 3:5 however does state "He saved us" that is past tense.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

O s a s is not a biblical doctrine it doesnt coincide with the apostles theology we are suppose to be one mind one spirit , now o s a s is heressy and i can say this as to say it teaches a spiritual slothfullness that leads into darkness , my advice pray and fast till you hear God then you will be ministered in the right direction since you dont take sound advice

Yeah your right.

We should instead embrace judaism. And our works based theology where we place ourselves and our work above God and his work. I mean he claimed it is finished. Paul claimed God took everything which was against us, contrary to us, and nailed it to the cross. But why should we listen to them? Lets listen to men.. And embrace this idea that we can do works greater than God, works which can save us,

Heck while we are at it. if we can save ourselves. I wonder why God came in the first place. maybe he did not get the memo that men are so great and powerful they do not need him?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A believer can fall away and be lost forever if he dies in his sins and never seeks forgiveness but any believer can be regenerated lest he perish beforehand

1 Scripture says a believer HAS been regenerated.
2. It says they were regenerated not by doing good works. but by Gods mercy.

But hey, If you want to save yourself Have at it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

hmmm my bible doesn't read like that. Romans 8:24 says "are saved" not "were saved"
Ephesians 2:8 says "are ye saved" not "we were saved" Titus 3:5 however does state "He saved us" that is past tense.

Rom 8: 24 is in the aorist tense. It means a past action which is still in effect.

Eph 2: 9 is in perfect tense. It means it is something that has already been completed. it is perfect and this nothing else needs to be done.

be careful with english texts. they are up to the interpretor how they are translated.

 

[Deadtosin]

Heck while we are at it. if we can save ourselves. I wonder why God came in the first place. maybe he did not get the memo that men are so great and powerful they do not need him?-Eternallygrateful


okay, that's not right. It has been clearly stated that everyone who is arguing against OSAS is relying on Jesus Christ to pay for their sins and to deliver them from the confines of sin. You shouldn't be so blatantly ignorant to that fact. The disagreement lies soley in this- OSAS believes that there is nothing they can do to lose salvation. IE Christ did everything there is nothing left to do.

Those who argue against OSAS believe the same thing save one small detail. If they choose not to live a life where Jesus is "Lord" of their life then they have decided to walk a path away from God. If we continually "choose" to live with Jesus in our hearts He does all of the changes. He is the finished work. However if we choose our sin over Him. If we say in our hearts and in our actions. I want this. I want to lust after women, I want to steal from these people. I want to sell drugs. Then they have selected a path that leads away from God. OSAS may say "then they never had God to begin with" okay, apparently we are all saying the same thing. A life lived where God is not LORD, a life lived where Fleshly desires are the "idols" of our lives, will not be saved.

Our concern is that when we say "if you ever gave your life to God you are good, there are no limits, do as you wish, you may have no treasure in heaven but you will still be saved" Now OSAS then argues "I would never say that!" okay, but lets look at it from someone elses point of view. Again we get in to the parables of the sower and the seed. The seeds were planted, they may have even started to grow, but some withered.

 

[SeaBass]

Rom 8: 24 is in the aorist tense. It means a past action which is still in effect.

Eph 2: 9 is in perfect tense. It means it is something that has already been completed. it is perfect and this nothing else needs to be done.

be careful with english texts. they are up to the interpretor how they are translated.

And this is a problem with Calvinistic predestination. God never predetermined that certain individuals would be "saved" unconditionally. In the verses listed, Rom 8:25; Eph 2:8, Paul is talking about the group Christian and not individuals apart from the group..

Before the world began God predetermined that the group Christian would be "saved" but never unconditionally predetermined an individual outside of that group would be "saved".

I can be a Christian today and therefore be in that "saved" group. Down the road, I can be come unfaithful, cast aside my faith then I will no longer be in that "saved" group. The group is still "saved", I am just no longer part of that "saved" group. My falling away from that "saved" group does not make the group become 'unsaved' for the group is always "saved" I just may or may not be a part of that "saved" group.

 

[SeaBass]

1 Scripture says a believer HAS been regenerated.
2. It says they were regenerated not by doing good works. but by Gods mercy.

But hey, If you want to save yourself Have at it.

Acts 2:40 "And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

1 Tim 4:16 "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Phil 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, workoutyour own salvation with fear and trembling.

1 Pet 1:22 "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

 

[Cassian]

Romans 8:24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?

1 Corinthians 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

All past tense.

and not a single one is referencing attaining eternal life through faith.
they are all referencing the work of Christ through His Incarnation, death, and resurrection is saving the world from death and sin. Which He did so that He and man could be reunited which we do through faith. And it is through faith that we attain eternal life with Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Heck while we are at it. if we can save ourselves. I wonder why God came in the first place. maybe he did not get the memo that men are so great and powerful they do not need him?-Eternallygrateful


okay, that's not right. It has been clearly stated that everyone who is arguing against OSAS is relying on Jesus Christ to pay for their sins and to deliver them from the confines of sin.

Saying one thing and actually doing it is not the same my friend. Maybe when you notice this you will notice the flaw in your thinking. Sorry to be blunt but that is just the way it is. If you do not believe God saves you perfectly and completely based on his work on the cross. and that you have to do something or you will lose it. You are not relying on God. No matter how many times you SAY YOU ARE.

You shouldn't be so blatantly ignorant to that fact. The disagreement lies soley in this- OSAS believes that there is nothing they can do to lose salvation. IE Christ did everything there is nothing left to do.

You have it right in one aspect, That christ did everything (that is what he claimed) you have it wrong in the second aspect. That there is nothing I can do to lose it. we do not think this way, We understand that there is nothing we can do to earn it. That is a huge difference that saying I can lose it. if I can never earn it (it can not come from myself no matter what I do) Then I must rely completely on someone else to save me.

Secondly. This is a good chance to look at what you said, Your whole argiment is based on the fact God did not do enough, That you have to add to his work. Thus you just proved (although you deny it) you are relying on yourself to save yourself. God did the work 2000 years ago. His work is complete. If you have to do something to get saved, or to NOT LOSE salvation. then you must rely on your own work. Period

Those who argue against OSAS believe the same thing save one small detail. If they choose not to live a life where Jesus is "Lord" of their life then they have decided to walk a path away from God.

This is only because they do not understand what happens to a person when they are saved, They are made a new creature, They are dead to their old life, and all things have become new. They have repented of their reliance on self and making their own decisions and doing their own thing, because they have come to the knowledge, their way does not work, and will not work. Thus, (if this is a sincere belief and repentance) they would NEVER do what you cjust claimed they CAN DO. It does not mean they will not sin, And may not walk away for a bit, It means they will not go back to what they were before. They already know how much that failed. Plus now they have God to keep them on track.

If we continually "choose" to live with Jesus in our hearts He does all of the changes.

If we do.. There you go adding self to the equation again. You just stated you are not doing this. Now here you are doing the very thing you claimed you did not do or teach.

He is the finished work.

He finished the work 2000 years ago, He said, "it is finished" and I do believe he meant it.

However if we choose our sin over Him. If we say in our hearts and in our actions. I want this. I want to lust after women, I want to steal from these people. I want to sell drugs. Then they have selected a path that leads away from God. OSAS may say "then they never had God to begin with" okay, apparently we are all saying the same thing. A life lived where God is not LORD, a life lived where Fleshly desires are the "idols" of our lives, will not be saved.

Don't bring licentiousness to the table my friend. Scripture says they were never saved, Not me. I may fall in the flesh, because I can;t fight my temptation. But that is my fault, not Gods. nor does it mean I want to do it. Paul makes this clear in romans 7. I do the things I DO NOT WANT TO DO.

A christian does not want to sin, this is not what scripture says, You again can say it all you want, But you would be going against Gods word.

Our concern is that when we say "if you ever gave your life to God you are good, there are no limits, do as you wish, you may have no treasure in heaven but you will still be saved" Now OSAS then argues "I would never say that!" okay, but lets look at it from someone elses point of view. Again we get in to the parables of the sower and the seed. The seeds were planted, they may have even started to grow, but some withered.

They withered because they had no faith. It never said they were saved, When you are given the gospel. And see the gospel in action. The seed is planted.

Some reject it outright, I want nothing to do with it

Some contemplate it. Want to investigate it more, Want to see if it is really for them. (seed grows) but never had faith, and eventually walk away.

 

[notuptome]

A believer can fall away and be lost forever if he dies in his sins and never seeks forgiveness but any believer can be regenerated lest he perish beforehand

Not at all true according to Hebrews 6 It is impossible to be renewed as it would put Christ to an open shame.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And this is a problem with Calvinistic predestination. God never predetermined that certain individuals would be "saved" unconditionally. In the verses listed, Rom 8:25; Eph 2:8, Paul is talking about the group Christian and not individuals apart from the group..

Before the world began God predetermined that the group Christian would be "saved" but never unconditionally predetermined an individual outside of that group would be "saved".

I can be a Christian today and therefore be in that "saved" group. Down the road, I can be come unfaithful, cast aside my faith then I will no longer be in that "saved" group. The group is still "saved", I am just no longer part of that "saved" group. My falling away from that "saved" group does not make the group become 'unsaved' for the group is always "saved" I just may or may not be a part of that "saved" group.

I am not calvanist. So stop judging what you do not know.

next..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and not a single one is referencing attaining eternal life through faith.
they are all referencing the work of Christ through His Incarnation, death, and resurrection is saving the world from death and sin. Which He did so that He and man could be reunited which we do through faith. And it is through faith that we attain eternal life with Christ.

1. Titus 3: 5 references regeneration. (passed from death to life. newly born, given eternal life)
2. Eph 2 references passing from death to life. (ie eternal life)
3. rom 8 references our hope. What is our hope? "in the HOPE of eternal life, which God, who can not lie, promised before time began" If I do not HAVE eternal life. I HAVE no hope.

Also. If I am dead, I need saved, for I am seperated from god and have no hope.

In order to be made alive (eternal life) I must be saved. or I am still dead in sin.

So eternal life, Salvation, Regeneration are all related. You can put any one of them in any passage and it would mean the same thing.

next....

 

[Cassian]

Yeah your right.

We should instead embrace judaism. And our works based theology where we place ourselves and our work above God and his work. I mean he claimed it is finished. Paul claimed God took everything which was against us, contrary to us, and nailed it to the cross. But why should we listen to them? Lets listen to men.. And embrace this idea that we can do works greater than God, works which can save us,

Heck while we are at it. if we can save ourselves. I wonder why God came in the first place. maybe he did not get the memo that men are so great and powerful they do not need him?

Gross misunderstanding again of what Christ did for us and why. They are not the same thing.
This has been pointed out repeatedly, but it seems to go right over your head. This is part of that strawman again, although in ignorance of what Christ did for mankind.

 

[SeaBass]

I am not calvanist. So stop judging what you do not know.

next..

You are Calvinistic if you are saying Paul is talking about the individual unconditionally being "saved" apart from the group "Christian".